Now what?

[BarbH]

I'm also contacting (just emailed) a licenced financial trustee to see if there is any other way forward out of this financial mess....Leave the mortgage alone and do a consumer proposal? Can I do that for my 1/2 of the consumer debt?

[Hamburg]

His answers are vague. It's part of the MLC process because of the confusion. It is also a way to control a situation. One way for you to flip it is to give him vague answers as well.

With regards to the house, I would hold off on refinancing. Perhaps an agreement could be both pay 1/2 for everything until it sells? Depending on your state, you may owe him 1/2 the equity once it changes hands.

If you see him, act as if everything is going well. Laugh, converse and have a good time.

You have tough decisions to make. For me, going on the offensive, moving out and pressing hard with a lawyer ended up best for me. I have small kids and W did some pretty bad things that the judge did not like. Your situation is different. It was tough, but things got better eventually.

You are correct to stop guessing his thoughts and actions. Keep the focus on yourself.

I don't know the answer to the debt question. Much depends on your state laws regarding property and debt.

You WILL get through this and come out a better person, regardless of the outcome. You've been slapped upside the head with a frying pan. Clarity will come with time. You will fall into traps and feel lost at times but it all gets better eventually. I hated hearing that at first but it is very true!

[BarbH]

Thanks Hamburg. words of wisdom. I've got the 50%/50% split written up in the separation agreement, but honestly I can barely afford it on my own. If he bails out on the agreement, and doesn't pay his share, I'm stuck. Where we live, listing the house now-well, sometimes they take a year to sell. I will owe him 1/2 the equity for sure as we are joint on everything.

I'm actually thinking back over the past 5 years, and getting really, really angry about his absenteeism (past 2 years) and lack of support while I was going through all my issues. As I said to him "when I really needed you the most, there you were, gone" I won't let him know (other than a week ago when I yelled and screamed at him) but I will keep getting all the legal/practical advice I can.

I'm usually so direct, I will work on my vagueness.

[Hamburg]

Did you sign anything or just write it up?

It sounds harsh, but do anything and everything for yourself. It is still very early and you may have no idea of things that may have been done--like purchases, affairs, theft, incurred debt, other properties, etc... these folks may live second lives the LBS is unaware of.

My W and I lived by an "agreement" for 6 months before I decided to enact the court system. During that time much of what we agreed to was ignored by her and it cost me a tremendous amount of money and time. She got 6 months of cake eating while my kids and I suffered. Once her reluctance became a court order, things got much better. Divorce takes a long time and EVERY aspect of your personal life will be intruded upon.

Avoid making any decisions during an emotional time. Think about things through and then plan B and plan C, just in case. You seem very level-headed so that makes it easier for you.

[BarbH]

Only written up. I will run it past my lawyer before signing. It's a draft. H hasn't even looked at it yet. He's at a family event this weekend, however our last conversation when I said we could do our own his response was "something to ponder". Well, I will text him Monday when he's back in cell range. We need to look a this and get it done. If he doesn't want to do our own (and run it past our lawyers), then I will suggest a mediator to get it done at $300.00. If not, I will go to my lawyer and we can do that for $3000.00. It will be up to him how much he wants to spend. Once it's signed, then at least I have the option of court. Right now-I'm just dangling.

At least we don't have kids, just our property and debt. I think he thinks we will just keep informally drifting along the way we have for the last 6 weeks. Um no.

On a personal note, it's so difficult to keep looking back at the person he used to be, and to try to come to terms with the person he now is. Only last week he was crying, didn't want to hurt me, came back the next day talking about "spark" and what retirement might look like in 2 years, and how to avoid having this happen again. Then a couple of days of pleasant conversation. And now-I'm being ghosted again. I think (understatement) he's having trouble facing reality.

If nothing changes, I will be applying for an uncontested divorce in a year. In British Columbia you can after 1 year separation. I love him, I feel for him, but life is too short (I'm 58).

[kml]

Oh heck yes, it gets better, one way or another.

I suggest prioritizing the things that are necessary for refi- that way you can refi if it looks like you'll be staying, and you'll need to have done that stuff anyway if you're going to sell. And yes, it's a good idea to photograph all his stuff including model numbers etc. You should either get half the value in other assets, or they should be sold and the money split.

You're right that the WAS will never get stuff done - they all want the "zipless divorce" ( like the zipless f--- in Erica Jong's novel Fear of Flying) and even when they're sure they want the divorce they often can't be bothered to do the paperwork. And if you move out and he moves back in lord knows how long it'll take to get it sold.

It sounds like you're realizing it's not a great place for you living alone, and maybe not a great place for the future even if you reconcile?

[BarbH]

Thank kml-just got back from my nightly anti-anxiety dog walk. I don't know why but I'm good all day (it is truly amazing what I'm getting done around here) and then in the evening-bang anxiety attacks. Thank goodness I have the dog! This is actually the thing that makes me really think this is MLC, he's even ignoring his dog.

I just photo'd all the "toys" boat, rv, two tractors, shop equipment, snowmobile, even the manure spreader. And then close up shots of all his radio equipment-showing manufacturers and model #. I'll upload to my cloud account so it's never lost.

When he had his moment of clarity last weekend and we talked about what reconciliation and retirement might look like-he said "this place is just too much work" and I said fine, then we should sell and move closer to your family. He said "we should have sold 10 years ago" however, it had never, ever come up in conversation. Then I said "Even if you said right now you were coming back, I wouldn't believe it because it will change tomorrow". He said "Yes, probably."

So you know, I believe that he's confused. I appreciate the 3-4 days of pleasantness and some of what sounded like actual honesty. But then, of course, it disappeared again.

I am not moving out. If I refi-and the debts are paid, then I know that if he reneges on the agreement I can carry the mortgage. A year gives me enough time to purge, pack, paint, redo the bathroom and sort out the animals. It's been such a horrendous 2 months with my mother passing on top of everything else that I just can't cope with selling right now.

Thank goodness for excellent neighbours in our little community here. Everyone knows now that I'm essentially on my own. I can phone anyone for help. Neighbour just volunteered her husband to do my electrical for the torn apart bathroom, and another neighbour is doing framing and drywall. Electrician is rounding up a plumber buddy too.

I know I can do this. I just thought we'd be doing it together.

[BarbH]

Well heck, that was weird. He randomly stopped in this morning, and I was literally heading out the door for coffee date with friend. We had a short discussion re when to meet for the agreement and he seemed quite puzzled trying to figure out when to meet. So I said "well, you know my schedule so when you come up with a time, just text me and let me know-because I'm already late so see you later". Came back 2 hours later and he's still here.

Apparently he's planning on coming here tomorrow night, staying overnight, doing some work upstairs, and then staying over tuesday night (his room) and heading into work from here Wednesday morning. Some desultory chit chat about his family, the reunion he went to last night. I'm working 12 hour shifts Monday and Tuesday so no big problem.

Then he said "can one of us buy the other out" and I said "honestly, I can't afford to , and I don't really want to." Then he said he was planning to continue staying at his sister's on his 4 day work stretch, and here on his 4 days off-because there is firewood to get in, and the driveway needs ploughing in the winter. Oh, and if I buy the brake pads for the truck, he'll do the work and change them. To which I responded appreciatively. After about 1/2 an hour of this I said "i've got to go answer a couple of these emails" and went upstairs.

I was friendly, didn't offer up much, was able to leave both conversations of my own accord. I have no idea why he wants to come home on days off, but oh well, that gives me some time. He also reconfirmed not selling the house for a year, but I will get that in the sep. agreement for sure.

So in one week we've regressed back again from talking about what retirement could look like and how to get there to this. So I guess that last week of pleasantness was some kind of "touch and go"?

[BarbH]

Oh, and we've schedule the 'agreement" talk for tuesday after I'm home from work.

[HaWho]

It definitely gets better and it gets better faster if we drop the rope like it’s on fire.

Regarding the vast waffling in plans, yes, it’s the massive confusion we all see that tells us something is very off with our spouses. It’s why we all say focus on you and build the best life you can because he’ll be a pendulum for a good long while. And if you take every “plan” to heart, you’ll go nuts right alongside him.

I suppose his closeness is a little touch and go? He could be a bit scared by you taking the helm on the separation agreement. Who knows?!?! I had a live - in MLCer and what I found, is he did these sorts of touch and gos for a while and then he got worse. They have to get worse to have a chance at getting better.

Note it, but just roll on because it’s just a snapshot of where he is in this moment. Do what you need to do to take care of you and if he wakes up and you’re still there, great! Do what you need to do to take care of you and if he wakes up and you’re not there, it will be his loss.