Need Some Advice Please!!

[Gomez]

Thanks chaps. As usual makes A LOT of sense. Will do!

[sandi2]

So how does all this work in real terms? Take the OM for example: I can’t forbid her to communicate with him: a) that’s controlling and b) I have no way of knowing if she does it or not. My terms of continuing the R would be no contact, but she doesn’t want that anyway. Since I have no way of knowing who she’s messaging, it seems I can’t set boundaries around it.

Really? You either have standards/principles for the MR, or you don't. What measures have been taken to protect the MR from falling into this very state? If she refuses to live by the same moral code, then you need to S/D. Isn't that what the M vows were about? The MR should have boundaries to protect it, just like you have personal boundaries, but your W has ignored any such boundaries......or excused it away by claiming there has been no physical affair.

I get what you are saying about controlling her. We try to point out to newcomers they can't control anyone but themselves. However, stay balanced in your thinking about it, b/c it doesn't mean you have to sit back and take whatever unacceptable act she pulls. It's your life, and your M, too. That's why it is necessary to have personal boundaries to protect yourself. You now see that she doesn't care about protecting the M. If she did, she would not have engaged in such communication with someone who was not her H.

As long as the M is moving toward D procedures, I don't think you can currently do much about who she contacts, especially when you aren't sure if they still communicate. No use wasting your breath on your terms for R at this time, b/c she is not interested in hearing it. However, if & when she ever asks what it would take to get back together, you can be ready to lay it out. Full transparency plan-----no secret "friendships" or private time/communication spent with other men, no mysterious trips or overnights. Attend couples therapy. Anything you feel you need in order to heal, that would be the time to tell her, when she asks about another chance. If she won't agree to cooperate in doing these things you need, then you'd probably go through this pain again. Allowing a WW to come back and pick up the MR where it left off, is a big mistake.

With the state of the house, walking in and complaining would be being an a$$ and rile her the wrong way. I don’t have any leverage (for want of a better word) in terms of containing the R so what do I say?

This situation reminds of raising children. You have to start training them you. Training includes discipline, and you can't wait until they are in their teens and then try to crack down. As I've said before, you have to make up your mind as to which is most important to you.......having a clean house, or having your W. I mean, you include this in your terms for reconciliation, but she's not going to stick to it.....unless you can figure out how to motivate her. I had a relative who grew up in an extremely clean/organized home. He M a woman who never made a bed, washed a dish, or swept a floor. I felt so sorry for him and the kids. There was no changing her. She laid around reading books all day, and that's all she did. He would come home from work, cook for the kids, and do what he could with laundry. She was very strong willed, and she was the one who called the shots in that household! Guess what he was?

Are you sure you and Josh T are not the same man? Your situations are very similar.

Stopping doing nice things for her is an option, but with the boys “tough love” is being cruel to be kind: they think we’re the enemy because we try to teach them right from wrong. How does this work with a WW?

I think there is some differences in doing a few nice things occasionally, and accommodating her on a regular basis. Your NGS is dictating your life here. This goes back to me telling you to stay balanced in your thinking process while taking in this new information. Tough love doesn't mean you turn into a monster. It takes strength is applying tough love, and when you've waited as long you have........I'm not going to lie and tell you it will easy. I'm not saying you can't ever be polite, when possible. You can even pick something up at the store on your way home from work if she asks. You can even hand her a cup of coffee sometimes. Stay in the middle ground here, and stop jumping to polar opposite. What I want you to understand is that your NGS has turned you into a H she doesn't respect and the M is seeing the results. You won't get her respect by playing nicey-nice, afraid of not accommodating her while she cheats behind your back.

How old are your boys? Look, if your boys are big enough they are telling their parents how they can be disciplined or not.........then I question what type of consequences they faced when they were disobedient. No offense. It's hard raising kids, and today someone will report you for child abuse if you smack your kid's hand. No father came any more strict than my dad, and I respected him more any man I knew. He was strict, but never abusive. He just had that presence that spoke "authority" and everyone he met sensed it. He not only talked the walk, but he walked it, if you know what I mean. I think I was eight when I got my last spanking from him. I don't know how he would have handled it if I had acted inappropriately after I was in my teens, but I was convinced it would not be a pleasant experience......so I didn't give my parents any trouble.

Tough love is not being cruel. The parent doesn't relish the idea of his children having to face consequences for their bad behavior, but it's b/c he wants them to be responsible, respectful, and loving people that he must enforce some type discipline when necessary. I would have NEVER told my father that he was cruel. He was strict, but not cruel. I didn't like it, but what kid does? So many kids are undisciplined, rowdy, selfish, rude, spoiled rotten, a sense of entitlement, and they are so smart in knowing how to manipulate their parents. Kids and WW's have similar behaviors, did you know it? You have to start in the early years----with WW and children---to train them up right. Here's the thing. You should not have to "explain" to your WW or your boys that you have to apply tough love, or explain the definition of it. Just do the action. They don't have to like it. The offender or guilty party doesn't get to cherry pick what type of consequences that have to face.

Of course, I would not dare use the discipline word when referring to dealing with a WW. However, I will use the tough love words. Have you ever read the tough love subject from a certain Christian psychologist? (hint--hint)

Okay massive update here. Before she was sexting the OM, she actually liked his BF but he had a girlfriend. Just found a load of new recent messages to the BF. He’s split up with his GF and she’s now messaging him! She doesn’t know I’ve seen the messages. How do I deal with this when she gets back?

Does this change anything? Will you be more divorced or less divorced, since she was messaging two men, instead of one? I think I've already said that the WW should experience the feeling of being dumped by her H, b/c of her waywardness. So, if you confront her about having information that she has been in touch with another man.....then be sure you have the guts to immediately dump her. It's important that you not reveal your source of information. She'll try her best to find out how much you know. If she knows you've dug through her messages, then she is going to turn the tables and scream about how she can no longer trust you b/c you've invaded her privacy. (This a favorite technique of WW's.) Unless you have reached your limit and you just don't care what she thinks, says, or does.......then I'm concerned you will walk away from the confrontation like a whipped pup. You cannot look weak. I tell H's they need to have a plan before they confront. Don't just confront for the sake of confronting her. Don't do it to see how she'll look when she finds out you know. Don't do it to see if she'll come clean. Although you may desire those things, confrontation is not always effective getting those results. Don't underestimate her power to throw you for a loop, leaving you speechless and not knowing what to do. Be very prepared before confronting a WW. Know what action you will take after you tell her you know she's been inappropriate with more than one man.

I think the advice you've received from Ballast & Steve are voices of experience. Think it over carefully.

By not saying anything, it effectively makes her feel like she’s “getting away with it” and gives her free reign to do whatever she wants behind my back. That’s doesn’t sit right with me. I want her to know I’m onto her and that whilst I can’t stop her, she’s not getting away with it behind my back: her dirty little secret is out.

From what I have observed in betrayed H's, this ^^^^^^^^ is the driving force behind the confrontation. He wants her to know that he knows what she's been doing. As for as telling her you can't stop her and that she's not getting away with it behind your back.........does that work for you? I'm not suggesting you lie to cover up her dirty secret, but my message is focused on you telling her you can't do anything to stop her. That part should not be included. Although we say it on the board, you don't have to repeat it in a confrontation. See what I mean? You aren't trying to control her, you are telling her you are aware that she lied about inappropriate communication with OM2.

That leads me to another concern you seem to hold, and that's her telling you a month ago she wanted to try. Truthfully, she hasn't really tried, now has she? She's given some temp checks that you wanted to believe were her attempts at working, but it was all lies & deceit........which should make you as angry as her contacts with OM2. So why does it bother you? I think it ties to what Steve said about your expectations in confronting her. Deep down, you hope it brings her to her senses and she'll remorsefully apologize and declare she is ready to commit to saving the M. ((hugs)) I wish I could report that we see those results on the board all the time, but we don't. There are a lot of pros & cons about confronting. Bottom line is to be real with yourself. Know why you are doing it and know what you intend to do after the confrontation. Ask yourself if it is worth it, and could it make things any worse. Have no expectations in how she'll respond. Whatever you do, DON'T tell her you still want to save the M! That's not what you tell a WW during confrontation. She should worry that she has gone too far and now she's lost you forever! Don't reassure her that you are still clinging to the slightest chance she'll want to try again (even it's the truth).

[Gomez]

Okay so I think I’m going to fight my urges to confront her about all this and JFDI. I think it will make things worse confronting her although the way I feel right Now I don’t really care- I really feel like I just want rid of her (if only I could bottle this feeling for those weak moments).

When she gets back I’ll be pushing her to get the house back together so it can go back up for sale. There’ll be no more family times (although I won’t cut off my nose to spite my face when it comes to spending time with the boys) and I’ll cut back what I do do her as far as is reasonably practical. I’ll also be pushing for mediation to get a financial settlement- might actually book it myself!

I’ve already stopped contacting her during the day down to the bare minimum when I need to.

[Gomez]

Anyone got any tips for when you’re feeling low? Self help, things that cheered you up, suggested reading etc? Feeling as low as I have done in a long time right now- REALLY lonely. I don’t want to move house and lose the one I’ve got, I don’t want to not see my boys everyday, i don’t want them to not be in a loving family with mummy and daddy around. Not sure how I feel about W- I hate her right now for what she’s done, and the messages she’s sent and the thoughts of what she’s done or will do kill me. I know it’s over, what she would need to do to reconcile she won’t do in a million years, I doubt she even thinks she’s in the wrong. But I worry there won’t be anyone else- irrational I know but doesn’t stop the thoughts. Don’t really feel like I have anyone to turn to- I don’t want my family knowing what she’s done and I don’t want friends thinking I’m just miserable to be around.

[ovrrnbw]

I know the feeling. In DR, Michele talks about the Stop Sign technique. I used that a lot. I also had conversations with others. I went out and talked to women. In the late August 18, I had 4 different women approach me in one night out. Huge ego boost at a time when I desperately needed it. So get out, get busy, and interact with people.