Sandi—I do think I have been grieving actively this year. It’s possible that I’ve recently started to fight that process more. I’ve been in IC since H left, and I remember telling her directly that I sometimes worried that I was in denial/not grieving properly because my hope and hanging on instinct would pop up so much. She helped me see that my hope and denial were parts of my grief, and that when the waves of heartbreak got to be too much I latched on to them like a life raft so I could catch a breath. She assured me that she had no doubt that I was actively grieving, so I took her word for it. All that said, I may be resisting it currently? It’s food for thought!
Finding out that he is/was dating the same woman this whole time was actually what pushed me over the line into truly feeling done with him and with the MR. That was the point at which I honestly *thought* I had dropped the rope, as it was the first time I felt ready to accept D and move forward. It felt like a bucket of ice water over my head—it completely changed the context of everything that happened over the past year, and I felt DONE. I did not think for a second that I would consider fighting for my MR again. That was just before July 4th. In the last week or two I’ve started to feel conflicted about whether to fight for it again or not.
Your last question is a good one, and not a super easy one to answer. I’ve asked myself many times, and sometimes I’m not sure. What I do know for sure is that I believe that it is 100% possible that if my H were to decide he wanted to meet me half way and do his part that I COULD be totally in love with him again, because my love has been buried under so much pain and anger distrust, and that feels like enough to fight for...? I don’t feel at all judged by your questions, I welcome them and any and all thoughts you have!
Unchien—you are right that my default cold and distant mode contributes to my confusion. There’s a strong part of me that feels like, given what has transpired recently, that is what he truly deserves from me. I know the feelings are valid, but I’m pretty sure that feeling like he deserves that from me doesn’t align with DB. But again, you’re right—it means I haven’t dropped the rope. I read about your meditation on your thread or someone else’s, and I KNOW I need to try it.
Yes I believe my H is a major NG. And I know that only he can do anything about it. When I read what you said, my thought was “you’d think facing divorce and losing your family would be a rock bottom, even if it was your choice”. But of course, that isn’t how that works. And he put a layer of leaves down by bringing OW into this, so his fall to rock bottom would be just cushioned enough not to hurt too badly. I’m just not sure what else a rock bottom could look like for him.
Unchien—you are right that my default cold and distant mode contributes to my confusion. There’s a strong part of me that feels like, given what has transpired recently, that is what he truly deserves from me. I know the feelings are valid, but I’m pretty sure that feeling like he deserves that from me doesn’t align with DB. But again, you’re right—it means I haven’t dropped the rope. I read about your meditation on your thread or someone else’s, and I KNOW I need to try it.
Hope - Yes, I have become a meditation fanatic in the last month or so. So you may have read about it on my thread.
I won't go on and on about meditation, other than I strongly believe in the value of guided meditations through an app (rather than sitting quiet for 10 minutes focusing on the breath). I just finished one tonight on emotional awareness that really helped me achieve some calmness (frustration is dominant lately for me).
DB will point you towards the end goal of detachment. But I think one can end up trying too hard to "achieve" detachment. For instance, I know I'm not supposed to be frustrated right now. But I am. So rather than push it away because DB says I need to detach, I'm just sitting with it, being aware of it, noticing how it feels. Somehow, this helps. I don't know why, but it does. I am a rational, logical person, and none of this makes any sense.
Originally Posted by HopeCA
Yes I believe my H is a major NG. And I know that only he can do anything about it. When I read what you said, my thought was “you’d think facing divorce and losing your family would be a rock bottom, even if it was your choice”. But, of course, that isn’t how that works. And he put a layer of leaves down by bringing OW into this, so his fall to rock bottom would be just cushioned enough not to hurt too badly. I’m just not sure what else a rock bottom could look like for him.
Maybe "rock bottom" was a poor choice of words.
What I meant to imply was that it takes A LOT for people to make true meaningful change. You may think divorce and losing his family is enough... it probably is not.
I did not really address my NGS until I truly understood how destructive it was to my life. It was not as simple as realizing I was losing my family or my W. It was realizing that if I did not address my issues, I was potentially going to fall into a depressive spiral and be a miserable, unhappy, lonely person for the rest of my life. It felt like life or death. I had panic attacks, I couldn't function at work, I was crying when I drove to work and when I drove home every day. I was a complete wreck. I didn't tell any friends for a month. I felt alone, scared, sometimes paranoid.
I had gone to IC for years before this. I had run across NGS 2 years ago. I went through estrangement with my parents. NONE of those things helped me work on my issues.
In any case, true change takes a lot. Think about what you have had to go through in order to change yourself.
Finally I caution you not to spend too much energy worrying about whether your H has NGS. That's his problem, not yours, and the more you worry about his problems, the harder it will be to detach. I like to think of it as the difference between detached curiosity (good) vs. diagnosis and frustration (bad). "How strange, H has twisted the past yet again. Hmmm... I'm going to go GAL it up right now."
Yes, various ICs have recommended meditation to me over the years. Though I’m also a very logical, analytical person, I’m also open to almost anything that will help me be a better version of myself, for me and for my daughter. I’m committing to trying an app, because I need guided sessions. I can NOT focus or quiet my own mind effectively at this point.
It’s really interesting to read what you say about your experience with emotional spiraling with NGS. A lot of what you list here, I’ve watched my H experience on and off over the years. Of course, in his mind, all the depression and anxiety and misery and hiding it from his friends—well that’s all my fault. Of course. You should be proud of yourself for being capable of introspection to recognize what you were dealing with. And you are right; there is no reason for me to focus on this in regards to my H at all. It will get me nowhere. Thank you for all of this!
A true NG would believe everything was his own fault. He may not give off that appearance to others. He will do things to hide his toxic shame about this.
I use 10% happier. I am fortunate to get it free through work, don’t know the cost.
Oh yes, I believe with complete certainty that my H is wracked with a huge amount of shame, and it is intolerable to him. His line is that it’s all my fault, but his shame is extremely obvious. In dark moments he’ll say things like “I’m a piece of s*** and you should be thanking me for leaving”
Getting D papers really helped me with detaching. I could never really detach while I still had hope, and for me, getting those papers killed my hope. It allowed me to move on. It freed me up to doing some actions that hurt the chance of R, but would help me going forward. As far as how to act, I've gone as dark as possible with kids. Your mood doesn't matter nearly as much when all you say is "Hi. Ok. Bye"
Unchien-you’re right! I actually never thought about those “I’m a piece of s***” comments that way before. He’s made them several times over the years (notably at times when he’s acted horrifically and I’ve managed to keep my cool) and I’ve always thought of them as brief moments of accountability. But they really aren’t. They are the opposite, a total cop out. UGH
Hi Sunset— I just read your entire thread, and it honestly took my breath away. I’m in awe of your strength. Its so interesting—I find myself really wishing I had something to offer you by way of support. But I’ve been on this board for a lot longer than you, and I feel like you’re leaps and bounds ahead of me in your progress. That could be for a multitude of reasons, but I’m impressed. Thanks for replying here, I’ll write more on your thread
Exactly. I don't think your H is doing this intentionally, but as long as he thinks this way he will never be able to address his issues.
I know you feel some anger towards your H about this. It's really common to think "Why won't person X just change?" I hope you can view his behavior not as a cop-out, but just as an issue that he has not yet fully recognized is blocking him from becoming a healthier person. That way, HIS problem is not affecting YOUR emotions, and you can let go of some of the anger.
I'm suggesting more of an empathic stance, recognizing his toxic shame prevents him from having healthy relationships. Perhaps it will help you heal somewhat. Maybe he will have an aha moment and make changes. It's really not your problem.
As a side note, recognizing the difference between shame and remorse is really helpful when dealing with apologies (and also has taught me how to be much more honest and authentic with other people when apologizing to them). One of the other components of someone really owning up to their behavior is if they ask YOU how you are feeling about their transgression. "I'm really sorry I hurt you, I imagine you are kind of angry at me. Are you willing to share more about your feelings?"
Hope... a couple of things stood out for me in the recent posts. The first is what you referred to as your H putting a layer of leaves (OW) to cushion his fall to rock bottom. That is EXACTLY what my XH did. He used her to avoid facing himself and he is still doing it only he thinks it is true love. It isn’t. Not sure my XH is capable of really loving someone else as he does not love himself. He loves her because he gets to be whoever he wants to be in her presence and he has convinced himself that he is a new man. He is not. He is the same person who is trying to take a short cut to healing. It will only work for so long. You can’t divorce yourself. The second thing is your H’s “I’m a piece of sh*t” comments. My XH made many of those to me but they did not come from a place of remorse. You are correct, I think. Your H’s comments are not about being accountable but more about making excuses and claiming helplessness over his own behaviour. Sad and very “victim-like”. You deserve better. xo
