I am a long time lurker and have read many of your threads, the DB book and articles (and lots of other things). My current situation is that my H moved out of the family home at the start of this year - so about seven weeks ago. We have one daughter together and I have an older son from a previous relationship. We've been together 15 years and he's been brining up my son as his own since the boy was 2 years old.
I am not sure if I got a BD. There was an EA on his part - I discovered last Spring - and we spent the summer together in therapy - though to my mind we didn't really make progress as all he wanted to communicate about was why I was overreacting, or why his actions were my fault. I'd insisted we go to therapy, which I see now was a mistake, and an utter waste of time. I'm not fully confident he's actually disclosed the full extent of what happened with the OW, and though he says he is no longer in touch with her, they work together and he's not transparent with his phone or email so I have no certainty that he's not in a E or even P A right now.
On my side, the issues were his coldness, withdrawal, emotional evasion, dishonesty including EA, bulling and criticism of our son, emotional and verbal abuse towards me, sarcasm, mockery, name-calling etc. I'd sum it up by saying he checked out of the marriage a couple of years ago then got furious with me whenever I got upset about it or held him accountable for it. For him, his issues were not feeling supported as a parent, not getting time and space to himself, not feeling important enough, feeling blamed for all our issues (though I am paraphrasing here as he finds it impossible, currently, to communicate without sarcasm, hostility, sarcasm and blame and it's hard to listen to what he actually wants to say underneath his bile).
His move out happened on the spur of the moment - though I'd been unhappy and willing him to leave for many months, and asking him if he would leave. He went in the middle of an argument, and I changed the locks on the house and refused to allow him back because his anger was frightening me (there was one minor incident of domestic abuse - his violence towards me - last summer - which I did report to the police and which he, even in therapy, holds me totally responsible for).
The situation now is that tempers have calmed, he's got a secure living situation and finances are pretty sorted out. We jointly own the home but each could pay all household bills independently so no immediate money crisis. He has a huge project on at work at the moment and says he doesn't have the capacity to resolve, talk about or move forward with either divorce or R at the moment, but would like a conversation about that in the future. In the meantime, he wants to see his daughter (the younger child) but isn't really making much effort with my son (the elder). I'm blindsided by that - though parenting differences were a long-standing source of conflict between us. He also wants to visit me in the house once or twice a week or so to 'connect' - there's to be no R-talk, but just being together (and he's initiated sex on a couple of occasions when that's happened.)
I have arranged family therapy for myself and my two children - I'm worried about the effect this is having on them, in particular the difference in how he is willing to see and contact them and the effect this might have on their relationship. I'm in IC. I have supportive friends though I am being very selective in who I choose to speak to about this. I'm not close to my own family, though they know he has moved out. He's not particularly close to his family, though I know he's given them some version of what has happened and they've since frozen me out a little, so I suspect it's a one sided view. I have lots of GAL. I enjoy my work. I have been to a solicitor and I can afford to buy him out of the house, no judge would separate my two children so if he rejects one, he is not going to be able to get residency of the younger one on his own. I am enjoying life in the house more without his controlling, sulking, criticism and hectoring. I'm worried about my children. I do believe at the moment he has neither the capacity or the inclination to reconcile, but he's not wanting to D either, and still wants to come to the house regularly. I am not initiating contact, ILYs or physical affection but responsive to him. I am struggling with a lot of conflicting feelings at the moment - mainly anger at myself for allowing him to cake-eat and allowing him to be close to me when he is rejecting my child, and also hopefulness about building a connection that might see us through to the point when he is able to look at his own behaviour.
I am posting here for the advice, 2x4s and some accountability with my goals. I want to get the focus on myself so I can make the right decisions for myself and my children. I am ambivalent about the marriage. I am not sure I am capable of offering him a healthy relationship at the moment - I am so trained in placating him - and I am 100% certain that he can't put one on the table either and may never be able to do so.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
You should get lots of good advice...sometimes it hurts, but most people in here are truthful, honest, and here to help. Sounds like you might even need some time to get things straight in your head. Look at time as a gift here. I struggle mightily with patience, but it'll take a lot of patience. Read the links above from Cadet. Especially the one on Detaching.
I'll be back later when I have more time. Be good to yourself...start there!
Me: 44 Her: 42 T: 22, M: 20 D:18, S:16, S:11 Sep: 6 months in 2002 Sep again: March 15, 2015 (5 months) WAW talk again: January 21, 2019
My sense is that I need some space and time and to sort out my own thoughts. I'm afraid of letting go of the small bit of contact we do have, and I have been engaging in some pursuing behaviours. Then when he seems to respond, I resent him and feel my anger at the way he's treated me, and go cold on him. This inconsistency isn't helping anything.
I know I need to make small changes for myself and be consistent in them. I am just not sure what I want to change.
I know for sure, 100%, I don't want my old MR back. I know he isn't doing the work right now on himself and isn't owning responsibility. I know I have work to do myself.
I suggest IC...it can help a lot. We often times lose our sense of self (men tend to not notice it as much and women can really feel this when they are stay-at-home or primary caregivers, etc.). This is where detachment become critical. It isn't about not caring or becoming indifferent to the other person. You can still be very upbeat, supportive, and validate your spouse. Detaching means allowing yourself and your spouse the space and freedom to be who they are. Obviously there are some emotional boundaries that need to be set (e.g., seeing another person). Detaching also means not engaging in behaviors that control your spouse or ways that you want them to respond to you. It's super important that you don't rely on your spouse or the relationship for happiness, or let them control your mood state. Only you can control that. Continue to give space to the relationship until you both can be independent. It's super scary because the fear is that the other person will just leave. Read Seven Secrets to Happy, Healthy Relationships. It has great suport to everything you are learning in DB/DR.
Me: 44 Her: 42 T: 22, M: 20 D:18, S:16, S:11 Sep: 6 months in 2002 Sep again: March 15, 2015 (5 months) WAW talk again: January 21, 2019
hello and welcome. Sorry to read about your situation. You seem quite emotionally intelligent and fairly calm about your situation. I guess you have been in it for a while so you are somewhat used to it.
Your H, unless he is a unicorn, probably can't work where he works with the OW and still have a healthy MR with you. The way he minimizing, deflects, or blames you for his actions is not good though you seem aware of it.
I don't know what the point of him coming to "connect" with you would be, it sounds very much like cake eating. His wanting to have a R talk eventually sounds like he's trying to give you hope and string you along. One way to prevent the cake eating would be to make plans when he comes to visit the children and get out of the house during that time. It sounds like you have them full time, right?
You definitely are not piecing the R back together yet, Sandi has a thread with some general requirements on what that looks like.
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
I do believe at the moment he has neither the capacity or the inclination to reconcile, but he's not wanting to D either, and still wants to come to the house regularly. I am not initiating contact, ILYs or physical affection but responsive to him. I am struggling with a lot of conflicting feelings at the moment - mainly anger at myself for allowing him to cake-eat and allowing him to be close to me when he is rejecting my child, and also hopefulness about building a connection that might see us through to the point when he is able to look at his own behaviour.
You are quite smart and self aware. You have all the tools to get through this. But if he is rejecting your older child and that's a dealbreaker AND he knows then you don't want to let him get away with it. Maybe you can tell me more about why it's important for him to be a part of your older son's life (outside of the obvious, y'all are married!!).
The hopefullness to build a connection is great, but I'm not sure if pursuing behaviors will get you there. MWD lists a whole bunch of pursuit behaviors in her books and they are great to know.
I'm looking forward to your next posts, hope things are well in the UK.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
You are right, he's having cake for breakfast, lunch and tea and you're allowing it. His behaviour has got all the hallmarks of an affair and he's keeping you on the backburner. The moving out, the putting the M on hold because he's busy at work. I think it's BS. He's trying out his R with another woman where you can't keep tabs on him.
Mine moved out to give us the space to 'work on the marriage' What that meant was carry on with OW whilst coming home and going on dates etc. And having sex as a desperate attempt to hang onto him.
Stop doing anything that a W would do and that most definitely includes sex.
You have doubts about the M anyway. So did I. I got to a place where I realised that I didn't want to continue in it. A lot of my feelings about the marriage were very similar to yours. How did I get there? It took time and living my life as if we were already divorced. I promise you that I wavered and doubted myself but rode it out until those doubts weren't there anymore. I missed things about the M but I didn't miss him. It took some readjustment after 27 years. I asked a friend how would I know what I wanted as it seemed impossible at the time and she said 'when you're ready you'll know' and she was right.
Try to stop thinking about what his long term goal is, about what he's thinking and doing. You cannot control or influence those. Leave him to stew in his own juices whilst you get on with living.
You sound like you've done a lot of the work already in respect of house and finances.
He is being disrespectful to you, your M and your Son. But I also think that we are disrespectful to our true selves when we allow that to happen. What makes Alison great, what do you enjoy doing? Write a list and then do them.
He's calling the shots about your life. Don't let that happen; only you get to call the shots about your life.
Thanks Miller. I've been in IC for about two years now and I find it very useful. I don't plan to stop any time soon, and the topic at the moment is boundaries - and me trying to explore the two sides of what I am feeling (great anger, and great sadness) to figure out what I want for myself and my children next. It's not always easy. I will check out that book you recommended though - thank you.
Overrnbow - thank you for your reply. I don't know if he is seeing the OW nor not. He says not, and I don't ask him any more. He could be - and when we were in therapy in the summer my therapist said I had to learn to trust him if we were going to have a chance at making things work. I found it impossible to trust him because he wasn't really taking any responsibility for his actions, but blaming them on me. It left me in the position of feeling like I needed to prevent his infidelity by placating him, and that made me very angry. I guess I will never know what he is up to, and day to day, it doesn't matter and changes nothing because I don't want a relationship with someone who isn't able to take ownership of their own decisions and actions. Sometimes I do feel like I am being strung along - he's just delaying the mess of a divorce until he's finished his project and it's more convenient for him to deal with it (he does have form for being evasive and rug-sweeping on all manner of things) and has no real intention or capacity to do the work. Sometimes I think he genuinely is very depressed, strung out, anxious and upset - he certainly looks it at times - and he's trying to care for himself while offering me what little he can. I don't know.
Yorkie - hello from the UK. I have read your thread and your situation often over the past few months and I like your style. I'm scared, I think, of facing up to how disrespectful I am allowing him to be, because I am pretty sure if I properly got a hold of that in my mind, I wouldn't want him any more. And that leaves the future kind of blank and scary. I think I need to do more work on building my life up to where I want it to be. I have been offered a promotion at work and I would like to spend some time working towards that and new projects of my own, but have put it off because I'm just not sure I have the emotional capacity at the moment. If I can more fully detach from him I think I could put that energy to better use.
Thanks all. I think I need to set myself some goals that have nothing to do with him. Put the focus back on myself and my children. Can anyone suggest anything or give me some goals from their own experience that worked for them?
Thatīs what you need. You need to use your time wisely as Cadet says. Read, take notes, print rules. You need to read and learn. There is lot of info in Cadetīs post. Take your time. DB basics are there.
We say itīs a marathon, not a sprint. Take a deep breath and start moving forward.
I was a wayward some time ago. I had an EA and PA with a coworker. Your H must do his own search and the best you can do is stay away from him.
Thereīs a long road ahead.
Time and patience.
Welcome to the DB forum Alison.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
I am not sure if I got a BD. There was an EA on his part - I discovered last Spring - and we spent the summer together in therapy - though to my mind we didn't really make progress as all he wanted to communicate about was why I was overreacting, or why his actions were my fault. I'd insisted we go to therapy, which I see now was a mistake, and an utter waste of time. I'm not fully confident he's actually disclosed the full extent of what happened with the OW, and though he says he is no longer in touch with her, they work together and he's not transparent with his phone or email so I have no certainty that he's not in a E or even P A right now.
Hi Alison, well you are right to be skeptical. Cheaters will feed their spouse the absolute minimum they think they can get away with. What makes you think it was an EA and not a PA? Usually it's a few degrees worse than what has been disclosed. And yes, not being transparent with phone and email is a red flag that something is still going on.
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though I am paraphrasing here as he finds it impossible, currently, to communicate without sarcasm, hostility, sarcasm and blame and it's hard to listen to what he actually wants to say underneath his bile
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there was one minor incident of domestic abuse - his violence towards me - last summer - which I did report to the police and which he, even in therapy, holds me totally responsible for
So you've been subjected to verbal, emotional and even physical abuse and he claims it's all your fault?
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We went in the middle of an argument, and I changed the locks on the house and refused to allow him back because his anger was frightening me
GOOD! This is a marriage-saving site but when it comes to abuse YOU ARE BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM. Clearly he has no intention of changing and I assure you, the abuse will get WORSE. It never gets better. And he blames you for the abuse, so the likelihood of it escalating is even higher in your case. Are you seeing an IC? I hope you are because someone needs to talk you down from the ledge. People in abusive relationships often feel responsible because the abuser is typically also a controller and manipulator. It is NOT your fault, I hope you see that. He is toxic and you need to end things with him.
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In the meantime, he wants to see his daughter (the younger child) but isn't really making much effort with my son (the elder).
I would be very hesitant to expose them to him based on what you've described. Those visitations may need to be supervised.
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He also wants to visit me in the house once or twice a week or so to 'connect' - there's to be no R-talk, but just being together (and he's initiated sex on a couple of occasions when that's happened.)
I would stop that immediately. Don't assume he's not sleeping around because he probably is. You could end up with an STD. Plus it can really put you in emotional turmoil.
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mainly anger at myself for allowing him to cake-eat and allowing him to be close to me when he is rejecting my child, and also hopefulness about building a connection that might see us through to the point when he is able to look at his own behaviour.
Don't be mad at yourself, this has everything to do with him and not much to do with you. He did this. As far as trying to build a connection, he has a ton of work he needs to do on himself before that can happen and he is unwilling to do it at this time or even acknowledge that he needs it.
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and I am 100% certain that he can't put one on the table either and may never be able to do so.
Unfortunately I would have to agree with your assessment. Of course we only hear one side of the story here and maybe things are different, but please be careful and please do protect yourself and the kids. The family counseling is great but please also do IC and explore these issues with them in depth.
