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Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2837884
02/18/19 08:43 PM
02/18/19 08:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,709
Midwest
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DonH Offline
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DonH  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Don - You're over-reacting and digging for dirt that's not there. I had only mentioned in passing that I was going to be out on a date on Wednesday. I don't go in to details. Standard courtesy is to tell other family members if you are going to be out unexpectedly.


Andrew I'm not digging for any dirt. Based on the reaction that YOU provided, that was pretty large. If you don't think he's bothered by you bringing this up, you are sticking your head in the sand. But, perhaps it's me, maybe I'm not reading it correctly and others might see it differently? He just seemed like he was not getting through to you and tried even harder. As for common courtesy of telling him you are going to be gone, by all means you should. That doesn't mean you have to provide details. You could simply have said "I won't be home this Wednesday I'm meeting someone for dinner or meeting a friend." I think you like talking about the fact that you have a date - and there is nothing wrong with that!!! There really isn't, just not to your son - he clearly does not want to hear it and I think he's about ready to hit you with a 2X4 to get it through to you - and you're still not wanting to hear it!


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Re: Sunday Supper [Re: DonH] #2837896
02/18/19 09:45 PM
02/18/19 09:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 27,162
Southern Maryland
job Offline

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job  Offline

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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 27,162
Southern Maryland
Andrew,

I have to agree w/DonH. It's common courtesy to let others in the home know that you will be out and about on any given night, but you do not need to tell your son what you are doing. This is your business...not his. Remember...he doesn't always tell you what he's doing and w/whom.

No, I'm not digging for dirt either, but looking at what you posted as an outsider, I could sense from your description of your son's reaction, he doesn't want to know what you are doing. It could be that he's not ready to face his father dating and possibly getting into a deeper relationship or he may want to remain neutral and if his mother questions him, he can honestly say "mom, I do not know what my father is doing". I don't know if his mother is the type to try to get info from him, but I would venture to say that she asks each and every time he is w/her as to what you are doing, where you go and w/whom you are doing it with. Trust me, there are some former spouses that will drill their children for info.

As for the young lady who is storing stuff at your place, time for her to get that job of cleaning up and disposing of things that are no longer of use. I know you don't mind, but it would cost a nice chunk of change to rent a storage facility and the least she could do is bring you a pie or do something to show her appreciation....but that's my two cents.

Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2837901
02/18/19 11:06 PM
02/18/19 11:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 781
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exquisitetobe Offline
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exquisitetobe  Offline
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Andrew, do not pounder on my words too long..
I talked about kid' s feelings. Now, i' ll tell you about mine and it sting ( me )!!

Eventho i feel like i have sacrificed much of my life for my kids and ex-h could not care less about being more than a father who visits whenever, they are no longer as close to me as they once were.
Regardless of what has happened, they accepted ex-h' s behavior and choices.

Eventho i thought ex-h would loose everyone who loved him the most and be a lonely lost soul, here i am! The lonely one.

You said it above. Your son found his place in his mother' s life and he would find it in yours aswell.
He is an adult. If, when the time comes for you to bring someone in, he no longer feel comfortable in your home, he can get his own.

Just be discrete about your dating. But do not stop living your own life.
In 2 years, i see my life taking a turn for ME, my needs and my wants.

Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2837906
02/19/19 12:59 AM
02/19/19 12:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,989
Canada
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AndrewP Offline OP
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AndrewP  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2,989
Canada
job/exquisitetobe - thanks for your input. It is a difficult situation in some ways and in other ways not.

As I found out in my own mind when trying to cope with infidelity, it's amazing what you can normalize and speaking honestly, I am glad that S24 has an apparently good relationship with his mother. What he thinks of her / what she did is between the two of them and I expect he's normalized that situation and is continuing to love and support his mother. As he should. As people often say - blood is thicker than water. We all presume that he passes on whatever he is asked to his mother and really - I don't care. I'm living my life for me and she's not part of it any more. Yes - there is that itch in the corner of my mind which I do my best to ignore - sometimes not as well as I should. I have nothing to hide nor to be ashamed of. In fact I'm rather proud of the life I have right now. What she thinks isn't anything to concern me whether I start dating Jeff Bezos' STBX (who is very pretty and undoubtedly very smart) or take up nude bungee jumping.

I don't really know what S24's opinion of me dating is. He and I have talked about it in the theoretical sense several times and he had no issues even when he knew I was having dates with CL last summer/fall. I suspect that in many ways it's more the "ick" factor than any actual issue just like small children when their parents are smooching. I just need to learn more clearly where those boundaries are for him and to respect them within reason. I am an adult and this is my house. And he is my son and I respect him. I also expect that his boundaries are somewhat fluid depending on his mood on any particular day.

We would like our former partners to face more serious consequences for their actions and the destruction that they caused, but while we may judge, their futures are not for us to decide. We are not the ultimate judge. And like you exquistetobe, I've lamented that I have been here alone and uncomforted while she's in some ways perhaps "won". You have seen though I think in your ex that he is a troubled soul who has at least some regrets. I can't imagine my own ex to be completely happy with the life she leads. People outside of the actual events do tend to have short memories and are often willing to overlook in others what they wouldn't if they were directly affected.

The best we can do is to let go of any outcome for them as "people we used to know" even if our own situations are made more difficult by what they did. It is only human to have anger and regrets though as I'm sure we all here understand.

I was pleased that 20S made some good progress on her stuff. 2 "very" large bags of garbage were created, one large box of stuff to donate and she took away a bunch of stuff as well. Barely made a dent in the hoard but it's a good start. Her one friend who came to help also went away with a couple of boxes of her own stuff that had made it in to the hoard over the years. S24 and I fully expect that we'll be acting as storage for her until into the summer. I don't know if she makes pies but in this house that would be "coals to Newcastle". Some kindness that costs me little and helps out a friend is not something that bothers me.

Brenda got home and we exchanged messages for a bit over an hour. We seem pretty compatible. She likes being comfortable and fuzzy PJs it seems. She agreed that the moon looks lovely this evening. She had a very nice visit with friends and family.

Time for me to pack it in for the evening. Busy day tomorrow. There are some important meetings on some possible changes to our business model and it will be interesting to see where that all goes. I did my prep work for that over this weekend assembling some numbers for my part of the process. And then the next day I will be having coffee with someone who I hope is a nice lady and getting my piano tuned. The longer term forecast for Wednesday suggests freezing rain in the evening but hopefully it will hold off. There seems to be some sort of curse on Wednesdays lately at least as far as the weather goes.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2837907
02/19/19 01:07 AM
02/19/19 01:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,669
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Ginger1 Online
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Andrew, I have to concur with the others. Your S has made it clear he wants to hear nothing about your love life. WHy? For different reasons, I am sure. He might just think talking about his parents dating is "yucky" and prefers to put the earmuffs on. How much does he share with you about his love life? It might be something he prefers both of you keep private. ANd I think Job is right, he probably wants to stay as neutral as Switzerland as possible around his mom. She may not be grilling him, but if she ever asks, he doesn't want to lie, so it's better not knowing at all. You can let him know you'll be out. He doesn't need to know where. Does he tell you where he is going everywhere he goes? Does he even let you know when he is gone?

I'll call you out. I think you want him to take this info back to his mom. You want her to ask, and now he knows so he will tell her. It's OK, I get it. Just be aware of it, and stop doing it. Tell us about your dates and the people at the pie shop, but your S doesn't need to know. Your exW doesn't need to know. You are the only one who needs to know. But if you want to share, share with us!

I, for one, am very excited to get the low down after the date!

Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2837909
02/19/19 01:14 AM
02/19/19 01:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,669
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Ginger1 Online
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We cross posted!

I think I have also reiterated before. My parents split when I was 17. My dad did cheat on my mom. My mom used to pump me for so much information, and I hated it. I did everything I could to not even go home because I didn't want to deal with it. Pretty hard the senior year of high school. She also resented me for still loving my dad and being close to him. I did not nor have I ever since then normalize his infidelity. My relationship with my dad is my relationship with my dad, and same with my mom. ANd my dad and I were extremely close and are extremely close and he was an absolutely excellent father. My mother was not the best mother due to her illness. My dad raised me. So I was not going to stop loving my dad for something that happened between them. Again, I just wanted to be 100% neutral. It was all I wanted. Just to have an R with my dad and I yearned for an R with my mom but that never happened.

So please, don't think he is normalizing her infidelity. He wants no part of any of that. He just wants a mom/son R and a dad/son R. That's it.

Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2837929
02/19/19 04:07 AM
02/19/19 04:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,990
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DnJ Offline
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DnJ  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,990
Hello Andrew

My kids have told me they would be ok with a stepmom. Again, I am not on the well travelled path and unsure of how helpful anything I share will be.

My kids and I have discussed many things. First kiss, first heart break, first drink, BF, GF, dating, staying over, getting a hotel room, and even trying drugs. (For anyone reading along who doesnít know me, I have four kids not just one busy one)

Regarding their Mom, we have discussed their anger, disappointment, feeling betrayed, abandonment, and desire to live with me. MLC, compassion, love, hope, forgiveness have all been talked about and are openly accepted.

We do not speak poorly or badly about W as a person. Her behaviour is recognized as poor, even immoral. However the person is hurting and hurt people hurt people. OM for the most part gets similar treatment.

They have all found detachment and indifference as well, releasing their anger and letting go, following my lead so it seems.

With all this, their relationship with their Mom is theirsí, not mine. I have run into their boundary regarding their Mom and what they wish to discuss, or more accurately when they wish to discuss. They want to talk, it just takes time for them to get to that point. If I asked to soon, I know it - there is an instant change in them. However, when enough time has elapsed all are quite chatty about their feelings and whatever they have seen or heard.

I put the cause of the delay to indifference. They are not as mature as I, and have not spent as much time in their emotional cars. A perfectly normal and reasonable response for teens and young adults.

When one comes home from a visit with Mom and OM (if he is around, btw no one really wants to see or deal with him), they do not want to talk about it. You have probably seen something like that Iím sure.

If more than one kids visits, like all five a Christmas, they all come back chatting and laughing and will talk right away.

As I said, indifference, their wall, their protection. They cannot raise and lower it quickly like their old man. It takes time, and time to process their feelings. Their emotional maturity can be seen with their quickness in recovery and discussions. The order from most to least is S21, GF20, S20, D16, and S18. D16 and S18 are basically tied most days. Their walls are needed more when alone; while in a group they can respond to and support each other and the need for indifference is less.

I am pretty sure some form of indifference is extended to me as well. They are teens and young adults after all. So that also explains some of the reluctance for conversing at different times.

Again, not sure how helpful that may be. Perhaps you see similar patterns with S24.

At any rate, if I were to say to any of them, I have a date on Wednesday and wonít be home for supper, I would not expect a sour face and donít tell me about your love life. Depending on the mood of the kid in question I would get at worse a bland neutral grunt all the way to OMG, who is she, what does she look like, is it WL from work, etc...

S24ís response, to me, suggests he is troubled by something. I do not believe it to be directly about your love life, that is just handy. It probably is related to relationships in some fashion - his most likely. Empathy is a skill that is gained and learned, and young people are self first, so it stands to reason that his reaction is about himself. An empathic negative response from S24 is unwarranted and unlikely given his age.

For now just let him know you wonít be home. As more and more dates happen, he will come around. He will ask/talk when he is ready.

DnJ


Oct 8/17 - BD
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
w/OM, Left Kids
Dec 9/17 - Legal Separation
Oct 3/18 - W Files
Apr 6/19 - Divorced
Current
Me52 XW48 S22 S21 S19 D17

I may give up, but not today.
Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2837966
02/19/19 01:52 PM
02/19/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,866
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doodler Offline
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Andrew,

I know exactly what's eating S24; it's fear. It's not the garden variety fear. It's the kind of fear that shakes you to the core and makes you pinch a loaf in your britches. It's the kind of fear everyone is afraid of.

What's the source of his fear? He's afraid you'll get your first taste of strange nookie and then the entire world will be turned inside out. His normally stoic Canadian old codger father will be turned into a horrific carnival of wanton lust and desire. His dad, his only dad, will be taking endless bubble baths with lavender bath bombs whilst singing bubblegum pop songs from the eighties. Prancing around the kitchen making pies while wearing a silly grin. All of the kvetching will be replaced by happiness and light. The father he once knew is now skipping naked through the snow and humping trees.

The thought of that is disgusting. How could you let this happen? Please don't become "that guy." Don't abandon us.

Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2838012
02/19/19 05:27 PM
02/19/19 05:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,320
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Dawn70 Offline
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Dawn70  Offline
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Thanks for that mental image, doodler. Now I'm picturing Andrew frolicking through a snowy wooded area.

Andrew, my dear Andrew, I have been reading along and honestly, I think Ginger calling you out was dead on. I think there is a part of you that WANTS S24 to carry info back to his mother. I'm not saying that you are trying to one up her or anything and I don't even think it is a conscious thing on your part. I just think you want a way to say "hey, I'm gonna be fine" and dating is one way to show that and kind of rub her nose in what she let go of. Again, I honestly don't even think you are doing it consciously. But, you yourself have said many times here that you think S24 is being used by his mom to get info from your social media and such, so why not just directly pump him for info if she's going to go to all that trouble. And, someone said (don't even remember who) that S24 is likely NOT comfortable with hearing about any of it for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that the less he knows, the less he has to sugar coat for his mom's sake. If he knows nothing and she does ask, he can HONESTLY tell her he knows nothing. Put yourself in his shoes for a second....at what point would you have wanted to hear about your father's romantic escapades? I don't know about you, but in my book, that is going to be a big NEVER!

I know it is hard to NOT think about the what ifs and all that, but you really not to stop concerning yourself with what XW is thinking and what the relationship between S24 and XW is. They are both adults and their relationship is solely between them. One of the things that stands out to me in all of your posts is that while S24 is obviously well into his adult life, you seem to still view him as a child. And, I think that has a lot to do with the fact that at 24, he still lives at home and is still, for all intents and purposes, taken care of by you. You are still very much dad, taking care of the house, paying the bills, providing meals. You've never said or if you have, I either don't remember or didn't catch it, but I wonder if S24 does his own laundry. Sometimes you speak of him as a grown man, but more often than not, when you talk of him, it seems as though you are describing someone much younger. I get that he is your son and you will always see him a certain way, but it kind of seems like you don't want to quite cut the apron strings just yet, so to speak.

I adore you and think that your interactions with your son are likely just part of your character in that you are a lover, a giver, a rescuer and you are a very deeply caring person. You obviously adore both of your children, but you don't seem to be nearly as enamored of your daughter's relationship to her mother as you are of your son's. Again, he's an adult, so whatever their relationship to each other is IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! Try to stop analyzing every little step he takes related to his mom. It is keeping you in a weird limbo that is not good for you. I have said this to you before, Andrew, but it bears repeating over and over and over again......LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Me 50, H51
3 adult daughters from XH's first marriage (plus 4 grandkids)
Divorce final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
1 adult daughter and bonus daughter-in-law from current H's first marriage
Re: Sunday Supper [Re: AndrewP] #2838025
02/19/19 06:23 PM
02/19/19 06:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,303
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Drew Offline
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Drew  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,303
Originally Posted by AndrewP
And then the next day I will be having coffee with someone who I hope is a nice lady and getting my piano tuned.

Can't believe Doodler let this line go by ......

smile


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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Moderated by  Cadet, job, Virginia 

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