3 year old EA - where do I go from here?

[Matrix5]

Morning all….

Just called the wife from work (she’s home) just to say hi. She presumably didn’t like the ‘down’ tone I used in my ‘hi’ to her (there was nothing out of the ordinary with my tone btw), and immediately responded in a nasty tone on her own.

She clearly is upset from something I did last night. Claimed I was quiet all of last evening and seemed ‘down’. I wasn’t down, I just don’t like to be taken for a ride while knowing that she’s in touch with the OM these days. So I’m playing the detachment method. She could also be pissed about something the kids had done this morning for all I know, and just uses my tone to blame me for her 5hitty life.

The problem with her is that she’s an extrovert and expects me to always be upbeat and talkative around her, and if I’m not (I’m an introvert) she immediately reads it as something is wrong, and demands to know what it is that’s on my mind (she of course assumes that I assume she has done something not kosher with OM). Now, I understand that part of DB, is to pretend as if nothing is bothering me. And most of the time I do maintain a ‘content’ face. But yesterday, while sitting with family relatives around the table, she caught me looking at her after she had just finished texting someone. Presumably the OM, based on her facial expressions. After everyone had left, I went outside to talk to my DB vet buddy on the phone. I went outside for an hour to talk to on the phone, to vet, and discuss DB….

Going outside, and away from everyone to get privacy is something she herself done plenty of times when she needed to talk to the OM.

Me disappearing to the yard for an hour I think upset her (good!). May be even made her question who I could be talking to all of a sudden in privacy for an hour….. When I came back inside, she was upstairs, but not before she locked the kitchen door and me outside with it. When I knocked on the door, asking for someone to open, she came down from upstairs and claimed she didn’t realize I was outside (BS). I don’t know the reason… maybe because she went upstairs but wanted to know how long I spent outside, she locked me out so as having to come down, let me in, and sort of time me to see how long I was outside. Not sure, don’t care regardless.

So back to this morning, I called her, and she answers in this pissy mood tone, claiming that she’s only answering me the way I answer her. She started going about yesterday, and how I was quiet and moody following some argument we had in the morning. I didn’t argue with her yesterday, instead I told her to cut it off because I’m not going into an argument with her. And so again this morning, I told her I’m not getting into an argument with her that my fighting days are behind me. I said it would be better off if we got off the phone and try to talk a little later when we she is in a better mood. 10 minutes later she calls me back and asks me “Are you ready to talk in a normal tone with me?” I said I had a normal tone during my first phone call but you were clearly caught up in something to do with yesterday. She of course tried to spin in on my usual shitty mood and the misery I live in. I told I’m not miserable anymore, my argument days are behind me. She then changed to fake-happy tone, asking me how am I doing…. This made me giggle and she didn’t like that. Asked if that’s how I work on the marriage as I have claimed in the past. I said: Honey I don’t work on the marriage, I work on myself. I’m trying to fix everything in me that was so bad all these years according to you, and that made this marriage suck. I’m fixing myself for either you or your replacement should there be one down the road.

I find it amusing that one moment (during bad arguments) she’d tell me this marriage [censored] and doesn’t work, that it’s over, and we only have to be amicable around the kids and until the kids graduate school a few years down the road. And then the next, she’s all of a sudden concern with my demeanor, wants to know what bothers me, and asks me if that’s the way I work on the marriage…. I mean if you have checked out, why do you even care about me and my marriage-fixing techniques? That just tells me she has not checked out, just lost…. Thoughts?

[paulzee]

It's ok to pretend and act sometimes it gets us through to a point where if you do it long enough you start to feel it. I'm not a professional Matrix I'm just sharing what's working for me. It's not perfect yesterday I fell back into some of my old ways in the morning and it triggered my wife and she was super mad all day and looking for a fight. Even though she was yelling at me I help my temper and listened and in the afternoon I cornered her before she left for work and asked her what's the problem. She was mad but she told me. Ok good now I know what I need to do.

It's sounds like she's adamant about having her cake and at the slightest indication of you GAL and 180 she immediately tries to pull you back in. My advice to you is try calling her less. Don't be constantly calling and asking how she is. If she calls be polite and friendly but keep the chat to a minimum especially if she's trying to pull you back in. If its about the kids it's ok be to the point and end the conversation first. "Hey I need to go I need to take this call" or "hey I'm tied up right now I have to go". Ignore some of her calls and hit ignore and send her to voice mail. Give time before calling back even an hour or two "hey I saw you called what's up" and if she's calling to manipulate you just say "sorry super busy here I need to run I will talk to you later". Keep pulling back. Free yourself. Focus on yourself focus on your kids. You are a good guy you deserve the best in your life. Detach yourself emotionally it will take time but it's liberating and she will sense it in you and may panic. Rid yourself of your fears. You can't force change in her she needs to change and this has gone on far too long. When you hit that point where you have accepted your situation and realized you are powerless to change it unless you change yourself you will feel free. Have a great day.

[mindsin]

My $0.02...

Reading all these posts gave me flashbacks of my situation years ago and I would agree with others here that she is cake-eating, big time. She gets to enjoy all the benefits of "family life" at home, and "romantic life" outside the home. Keeping that status quo seems to be her goal. When she's concerned about your mood, she's actually just concerned about rocking the boat of the situation she currently has.

Just think of Occam's razor -- The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. Given all the evidence (circumstantial or otherwise), It seems the simple explanation is that she's having an affair. You're jumping through hoops to rationalize this as just a friendship that she's trying to hide.

[Matrix5]

It's ok to pretend and act sometimes it gets us through to a point where if you do it long enough you start to feel it. I'm not a professional Matrix I'm just sharing what's working for me. It's not perfect yesterday I fell back into some of my old ways in the morning and it triggered my wife and she was super mad all day and looking for a fight. Even though she was yelling at me I help my temper and listened and in the afternoon I cornered her before she left for work and asked her what's the problem. She was mad but she told me. Ok good now I know what I need to do.

I agree, but I feel that when I’m nonchalant, friendly, cordial, and amicable in my interactions with her, I enable her to continue with her nonsense. I feel like I’m being taken for a ride. OTOH If I show discontent, she starts pressing to know what’s bothering me, and asks “what have I done now?” (A related question), etc.

So while I want to show content and happiness, I’m pretty sure she reads it as “oh good, he’s happy, there are no frictions around the house, and I can continue doing what I want to do” – and that’s a problem for me. I hate being taken for a ride, and be made a fool. At the same token, if I come up with accusations yet again, or better yet, with clear cut evidence, I’m pretty sure putting the last nail in this marriage’s coffin. Yes, she’ll say that I caught her or whatever, but she’ll quickly dismiss it and say “it doesn’t matter. There’s no trust between us, and we need to go our separate ways right now.”

The problem is that:

1) I can’t afford a divorce from a financial standpoint
2) We were planning to move to a better town with better schools for the kids’ sake. So a divorce, kills that plan and the kids end up suffering.

It's sounds like she's adamant about having her cake and at the slightest indication of you GAL and 180 she immediately tries to pull you back in. My advice to you is try calling her less. Don't be constantly calling and asking how she is. If she calls be polite and friendly but keep the chat to a minimum especially if she's trying to pull you back in. If its about the kids it's ok be to the point and end the conversation first. "Hey I need to go I need to take this call" or "hey I'm tied up right now I have to go". Ignore some of her calls and hit ignore and send her to voice mail. Give time before calling back even an hour or two "hey I saw you called what's up" and if she's calling to manipulate you just say "sorry super busy here I need to run I will talk to you later". Keep pulling back. Free yourself. Focus on yourself focus on your kids. You are a good guy you deserve the best in your life. Detach yourself emotionally it will take time but it's liberating and she will sense it in you and may panic. Rid yourself of your fears. You can't force change in her she needs to change and this has gone on far too long. When you hit that point where you have accepted your situation and realized you are powerless to change it unless you change yourself you will feel free. Have a great day.

I hear ya, some good pointers, and I’ll address them in order:

1. Calling less – going dark on her she interprets that as me being upset about something (most likely with the A). Same goes for me trying to be a man of less words around the house. She comes at me “What’s the matter now?”’
2. If she calls and I ignore her call, she’ll make this passive-aggressive comment the next time we talk “I called you”. No [censored] you called me, there’s caller ID these days. I know you called me. You telling me you called, is a passive aggressive comment, implying I was too ‘busy’ for you to answer, or didn’t want to answer at all…. I don’t know if she thinks I ignore her, or just pure curiosity as to what I may be up to that I couldn’t answer the phone.
3. It’s not really fears for me. It’s more about anger and frustration about being made a fool. When I don’t tell her that I know, but rather continue to be nice towards her, I feel as if I just enable her to continue eating her cake. And who knows, she seems so comfortable and nonchalant while eating her cake, that maybe really just having a platonic relationship, and doesn’t give a [censored] if it bother me or not, because she knows it innocent friendship. Same type of friendship she encourages me to have with women as well. She sees nothing wrong with those (cross gender friendships).

[Matrix5]

My $0.02...

Reading all these posts gave me flashbacks of my situation years ago and I would agree with others here that she is cake-eating, big time. She gets to enjoy all the benefits of "family life" at home, and "romantic life" outside the home. Keeping that status quo seems to be her goal. When she's concerned about your mood, she's actually just concerned about rocking the boat of the situation she currently has.

.

Perhaps, but how do you explain her adamant statements during big blowouts, such as the likes of “this marriage is beyond repair”, “we need to go our separate ways now”, “I don’t think this marriage is worth saving”, etc. I mean these are pretty big statements to make if you’re not willing to back them up. The last blowout we had, she actually suggested we get the D process going the very next morning. The only thing that stopped it in its tracks was my comeback comment: “Go find a job first, because I can’t afford paying you alimony”. Of course she took it as me thinking of her being a leach, and trying to screw me over. I simply explain that that was not my intention. That if she wants a divorce, I will sign the papers only if and when she manages to find a job, because I can’t afford it financially at the moment. So I don’t know how content she is at this very moment about this cake-family life balance you mentioned. I think she’d be glad to be out the door if we had the money to proceed.

Just think of Occam's razor -- The simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. Given all the evidence (circumstantial or otherwise), It seems the simple explanation is that she's having an affair. You're jumping through hoops to rationalize this as just a friendship that she's trying to hide.

You may be right, but explanations and guesses alone will not cut it. I would need clear cut evidence. And since for the time being at least, I neither can afford a D, nor want the kids to pay the price for it, I am forced to live with the current situation. The only thing I can do is learn to adjust and shift my focus away from her. Keep on telling myself she is as good as gone for me. That she now has a life beyond me, and that’s ok. That if she wants to see other men, she is free to do so and I should be perfectly ok with it. It’s not easy but I think I can do it. The biggest obstacle believe it or not, is not dealing with her, but rather dealing with the OM at work. I don’t know how to balance being nice and cordial with not speaking to the guy who’s been sitting next to me for the last 10 years. The guy who ‘used’ to be one of my best friends. I want to get the impression that I’m upset about something to do with him, but I don’t want him to turn around and tell our mutual boss that I have turned into this prick all of a sudden.

I KNOW that he’s suspecting that something is wrong on my side and that it has something do with him, because he sees me sitting quietly the whole day, not exchanging a single word with him, yet he won’t ask what’s the matter. In the past, during periods in which he was not in touch with my W, and would see me down for whatever reason, he’d inquire very quickly with sincere concern. Now though, after the recent bout of interactions he had with my W, he’s not asking me a thing. He just ignores my moodiness and continues to act and behave as if there’s nothing wrong. I’m willing to bet a few Benjamins that my W had told him not to ask anything, afraid that I may be onto something. So he probably thinks that by ignoring me and my deafening silence towards him, it will just get wind down at some point, and I’ll return to be the old me towards him…. Let me tell you, I won’t let that happen. I don’t think I will necessarily corner him and press him to admit anything, but I won’t just drop it. He NEEDS to know that I at least know something. That I’m upset about something, and that that issue has something to do with him.

I actually kind of like it. I feel like he’s feeling panicked and keeps on having this back and forth with her, and together they try to theorize on what to do next. Between me running late a couple of nights ago on the way home from work, or chatting in the yard with ‘someone’ (thanks again for listening Mindsin) on the phone for over an hour…. Good! Let them wonder. She may be thinking I’m either onto something or working with a PI.

[paulzee]

I agree, but I feel that when I’m nonchalant, friendly, cordial, and amicable in my interactions with her, I enable her to continue with her nonsense. I feel like I’m being taken for a ride. OTOH If I show discontent, she starts pressing to know what’s bothering me, and asks “what have I done now?” (A related question), etc.

So while I want to show content and happiness, I’m pretty sure she reads it as “oh good, he’s happy, there are no frictions around the house, and I can continue doing what I want to do” – and that’s a problem for me. I hate being taken for a ride, and be made a fool. At the same token, if I come up with accusations yet again, or better yet, with clear cut evidence, I’m pretty sure putting the last nail in this marriage’s coffin. Yes, she’ll say that I caught her or whatever, but she’ll quickly dismiss it and say “it doesn’t matter. There’s no trust between us, and we need to go our separate ways right now.”

The problem is that:

1) I can’t afford a divorce from a financial standpoint
2) We were planning to move to a better town with better schools for the kids’ sake. So a divorce, kills that plan and the kids end up suffering.

Matrix you are running in circles bud I hate to say it. Taken for a ride? She's been taking you for a ride for years my friend. If you keep pursuing she will continue to do what she's doing. I think if you truly disconnect you will see something entirely different from what you are expecting. I feel for you bud but I can't give you any better advice you know what you need to do.

[Matrix5]

Matrix you are running in circles bud I hate to say it. Taken for a ride? She's been taking you for a ride for years my friend. If you keep pursuing she will continue to do what she's doing. I think if you truly disconnect you will see something entirely different from what you are expecting. I feel for you bud but I can't give you any better advice you know what you need to do.

Maybe ‘taken for a ride’ is the wrong phrase to use. I don’t mean to say that when I’m home I run around her with my tail between my legs, my tongue is out, and I let her make a doormat out of me. Not even close. But when I follow the 37 rules, particularly with respect to the following 3 rules:

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times!

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold

I feel as though she gets the impression that I’m now Mr. nice guy, and I’m content with the status quo.

That’s what I mean when I say I feel like she’s ‘taking me for a ride’. She gets to eat her cake, while seeing me ‘content’ with the current situation. In other words, I don’t break her balls about who she talks to, and at the same time, I’m a very pleasant person that has finally ‘realized’ that it’s ok for the situation to continue as is, and have backed off of her. I feel like if don’t show discontent, she gets the idea I’m ok with her cake-eating – that’s what I mean by ‘being taken for a ride’.

[mindsin]

Perhaps, but how do you explain her adamant statements during big blowouts, such as the likes of “this marriage is beyond repair”, “we need to go our separate ways now”, “I don’t think this marriage is worth saving”, etc. I mean these are pretty big statements to make if you’re not willing to back them up. The last blowout we had, she actually suggested we get the D process going the very next morning. The only thing that stopped it in its tracks was my comeback comment: “Go find a job first, because I can’t afford paying you alimony”. Of course she took it as me thinking of her being a leach, and trying to screw me over. I simply explain that that was not my intention. That if she wants a divorce, I will sign the papers only if and when she manages to find a job, because I can’t afford it financially at the moment. So I don’t know how content she is at this very moment about this cake-family life balance you mentioned. I think she’d be glad to be out the door if we had the money to proceed.

Alimony is granted only if it's in the divorce decree. If she takes pride in being independent (i.e. not a "leach"), then that works in your favor. If you can both agree on terms, then there's no need to even get an attorney involved. I did not seek alimony in my divorce even though I probably could have pushed for it due to my ex-wife's income being much higher than mine. The judge even double-checked with me and made me aware that if I refuse alimony, then I waive the right to request alimony indefinitely. It was never my intent to "screw over" my ex-wife and I don't want any money from her. I do just fine financially on my own. So I declined.

I cannot say for sure whether or not she is content with the situation. If I were to guess, I'd say deep down it is causing her a lot of stress. She probably wonders how long she can continue this double life of pretending to be your wife while satisfying her need for emotional (and possibly physical) intimacy with another man.

You may be right, but explanations and guesses alone will not cut it. I would need clear cut evidence. And since for the time being at least, I neither can afford a D, nor want the kids to pay the price for it, I am forced to live with the current situation. The only thing I can do is learn to adjust and shift my focus away from her. Keep on telling myself she is as good as gone for me. That she now has a life beyond me, and that’s ok. That if she wants to see other men, she is free to do so and I should be perfectly ok with it. It’s not easy but I think I can do it. The biggest obstacle believe it or not, is not dealing with her, but rather dealing with the OM at work. I don’t know how to balance being nice and cordial with not speaking to the guy who’s been sitting next to me for the last 10 years. The guy who ‘used’ to be one of my best friends. I want to get the impression that I’m upset about something to do with him, but I don’t want him to turn around and tell our mutual boss that I have turned into this prick all of a sudden.

I don't think you're doing your kids any favors by staying in a miserable marriage. Your daughter will learn how a man is supposed to treat his wife by how dad behaves towards mom. Is your current dynamic with your wife the example you want to set? Think about it.

Even though my kids went through a divorce, they now spend time in two households where the adult couples are in a healthy loving relationship. They show zero negative psychological effects of being in a split family and are very outgoing and happy whenever I see them. I don't know, maybe I just got lucky with how things turned out. But when mom & dad are happy, the kids are happy -- even though mom and dad are with other people.

[Matrix5]

She said she doesn't look to screw me should we get a divorce. But I know with her part time job, there is no way she can sustain herself and the kids on her income alone. There's no doubt I'd have to chip in as far as alimony goes.

[quote=mindsin]
I don't think you're doing your kids any favors by staying in a miserable marriage. Your daughter will learn how a man is supposed to treat his wife by how dad behaves towards mom. Is your current dynamic with your wife the example you want to set? Think about it.

Even though my kids went through a divorce, they now spend time in two households where the adult couples are in a healthy loving relationship. They show zero negative psychological effects of being in a split family and are very outgoing and happy whenever I see them. I don't know, maybe I just got lucky with how things turned out. But when mom & dad are happy, the kids are happy -- even though mom and dad are with other people.

You keep on forgetting that we are trying to get out of this town and to a more expensive one for its school system. She has already declared that if we get a divorce she isn't going anywhere because there's no way she can afford anything in that new town. That we either move together for the time being and for the kids' sake, or we go our seperate ways now, but she gets to stay in our current town - something I am absolutely against. I need the kids to go to a better school system.

As far as the kids suferring from all of this. They're not, certainly not the twins. We don't really argue on a regular basis, and if there one, we make sure it is not done around the kids. The kids only see the 'good' stuff behind us. It's not easy, but we try - for their sake.

[Matrix5]

Update

Monday, 9/10

I called her from work for the usual “hi, how are you” morning call… She was upset with my tone (which was no different than any other day), and claimed she was tired of my miserable tone. I said she was just upset about an argument we had the day prior (money related). We ended the call on a bad note. When I came home, I tried talk to her to get to the bottom of what was bothering her. That didn’t go well, and I ended up spilling the beans on everything that I knew and found out. She of course tried denying everything in a dismissive way, but that’s what liars do when they can’t come with a valid answer.

I told her I was sick and tired of her lying. That at this point in our marriage the only thing I’m concerned with is working on myself, but will not allow her to do any nonsense on the side while we’re married. I said I have no problem with her talking or seeing my co-worker for drinks and chatting, but she has to be open about it. I told her lying have achieved nothing but put my imagination into overdrive, and in turn caused me to snoop around in anticipation of the worst. I tried pressing her to the corner by making sexual accusation to see if she breaks and tells me something I don’t know, but she was appalled by those, saying she was disgusted by me for even insinuating she would do anything like that. There was a clear difference in her answers and tone between denying the birthday gifts, texts, and meetings, and denying the sexual accusations. To the former, she just kept on dismissing me with “Get the F out of here” and other non-sensible dismissive answers that a liar tells when they know they got caught red handed. But when I started making accusations of her sleeping with him, she turned really pissed, appalled, and disgusted by that I would have suggest something like that. I said her own behavior was disgusting, and that if she doesn’t come clean, I’m done, and left the house to talk to a friend about all of this.

Confronting her and spilling the beans was not something I planned on doing, but I got cornered with her accusations and complaints about me, and just spilled everything about what I had found out in recent days, and have been holding in for too long now. I just couldn’t hold it in anymore. I felt that me GAL and doing 180 for months now, was either going unnoticed or ignored, while she was getting to have her cake on the side. I finally reached breakpoint, and realized that if I don’t put her on the spot and put an ultimatum, I will lose my mind.

AS mentioned above, I left the house for a couple of hours to talk to a former, fellow DBer who happens to be a good friend of mine. While talking on the phone with him, I realized that for the first time in many months I felt relieved. Relieved that she now knows that my patience has run out. That if things don’t change, I’m willing to walk away for good. I came home 2 hours later and she was already asleep thank god, because I was not in the mood to continue arguing.

Tuesday 9/11

After spending the night in the guest bedroom (to show her how disturbed I was with her behavior), I left for the gym at 5am. At 7am, as I arrived at work, she called and asked me in a reconcilable tone to come home so we can talk about the R and see how we can fix things. Mind you, that was a very different tone, than the accusatory and resistant tone she had used the night before. Where Monday night she claimed she had nothing to fix in this marriage because she had done nothing wrong, now she wanted in on the repair work… I left work to deal with that. When I got home we hashed things out more, during which I explained that I refuse to be taken for a ride, ignored, and or have my efforts go unnoticed. She was in tears, said she was looking for love, and wasn’t sure if she can find it with me or anyone for that matter at this point in life (I’ve suspected she going through a MLC for a while, could be that too).

I said I’m willing to give her all the love she deserves, but I refuse to be lied to, ignored, and taken for granted. I also told her she deserves to be happy, and if she believes I cannot make her happy, that I fully support us going our separate ways. I said I’m whole and ok with either decision we make. I’m willing to change, and put effort, and give her the love she deserves, but if she doesn’t want it, or not willing to be transparent, open, and honest with me with regards to her social life, I’m walking out. Left it at that and went downstairs to have breakfast.

Half hour later she came down, in tears, said she wants to work on the marriage. That’s a complete different tone than what she had from the previous night in which she claimed she had no part or responsibility in fixing this marriage, that she had done nothing wrong, that I’ve wronged her for 13 years (I have), and it’s all my responsibility. Now it seemed as though she was fully aware of the way in which her secrecy caused me to pretty much lose my mind and sabotage my efforts in trying to repair this marriage (through working on myself). I said that I’m going to work on myself, and make improvements FOR myself. She has the choice to either stick around and reap the benefits, or decide I’m not good enough for her. Regardless, I said, I will be improving myself for either you, OR your replacement, should one come down the road. I told her she sounded very conflicted in her tone, and should take time (days if needed) to think about her decision, that I’m not rushing her into anything, or forcing her to stick around if she doesn’t feel right about it.

She calmed down a bit, had her own breakfast, and then went upstairs. I was exhausted at that point from the previous sleepless night, and went upstairs to take a nap in the guest bedroom. When I woken up a few hours later, she suggested we go for a walk, which I agreed to. We hashed out everything else remaining during our walk. During which she revealed all the stuff I was accusing her of (the texts, the couple of outings, the gifts (she just felt bad he bought her a gift (they were invited to her birthday party but came empty handed), so she felt obligated to get him something as well for his birthday). I again, made it clear that I’m ok with either decision we make. I want to stay married, work on myself, and give her the love she deserves, but I will NOT be taken for a ride. The secrecy and the lies must stop. That I’m ok with her having platonic, harmless friendships, but she needs to be open and 100% transparent about. She agreed, and we decided to move on from this.

Shortly thereafter, back home, I went into the kitchen where she was making dinner for the kids, and she came and gave me a kiss on the lips. Something she hasn’t done in almost a year. I was shocked, to say the least. The rest of the evening went by nice, we sat in the kitchen and just chatted about different things.

I’m giving this one last chance. If she goes underground on me again, I’m out.

Wednesday 9/12

Decided to talk to my co-worker as well. Made it clear that I have no issues with them being friends, so long as nothing funny was going on. He immediately said that whatever friendship he had with my wife was purely superficial and revolved around stupid day to day topics (household, money, politics, etc.). Also said that his friendship with me, and our employment is 10 times more important to him than whatever he has with my wife. He offered to disengage contact with her immediately so as to not cause any further problems. I told him not to do because I’ll then get an earful from her about me intervening in her social life and ruining friendships. I told him that she is more to be blamed here because she is the one who kept everything one big secret.