Hey Paul, first I do agree with Steve that your outlook for saving your M is very good. I don't think your W is two feet out the door like most who come here, more like one foot. You're doing a lot right and a little wrong so I'm going to touch on that:
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She never filed any papers she said because our financial situation isn't great right now and then I would have to leave and it would be hard for me to see the kids cause I would have nowhere to live except for the back of my store.
OK well the reasons don't matter, if she's not filing then count that as a blessing. DO NOT ASK ABOUT IT. No relationship talk at all, don't talk about the M, the D papers, separation, future plans, NOTHING. You've got to remove all pressure from her and all of those things are pressure. She's backing down from D but if you apply even the slightest pressure to her she will go back to full-on WAS mode in a heartbeat. BE CAREFUL.
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Then I got online and did a lot of reading, downloaded audio books, and came to the realization that she was right about everything, but I want to save my marriage, because I am truly in love with her and want to spend my life with her. I realized I had to first of all accept what was happening, realize that if it did happen it would not be the end of the world, and get stronger. I realized I had to change and if I didn't change that there was no chance of saving my marriage. So I set about changing, I lost 18 lbs (another 20 to go). When I was around her I started to listen, I keyed in on what really made her angry. I started coming home when I said I would come home, I started to spend more time with my kids and quality time, and that's been awesome, my kids adore me. I backed off, I didn't attempt to touch her, I spoke softly, I communicated what needed to be communicated, and kept it as simple as possible.
All of that is perfect, keep it up!
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I told her I agreed with her, she was right, and I accept her decision. I apologized for all the times I hurt her and told her I can't go back and fix it, but we need a new relationship, and if that was only a friendship I was fine with it.
OK well that's fine to say once, but don't keep telling her these things. You said it, she heard you, now it's all about ACTION.
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She noted that I was looking good, and she said the change in me was almost "scary" and told me she couldn't believe I can continue. I booked for some counseling on my own, she told me she didn't believe I would follow through. Fair enough, talk is cheap, action is what counts.
Right now she thinks you're making changes as tricks to get her back. You've got to show her CONSISTENT changed behavior over a long period of TIME. So really work hard at keeping those changes going.
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...then she really unloaded on me with a ton of anger, got abusive, I tried to touch her back she told me not to effin touch her, when she got more abusive I got up and told her I was going to bed because I didn't need to be abused. She said "there you go same as always run away when things get hard". So I sat back down and let he unload on me for another 15 minutes. She calmed down, then she started playing more music, then she grabbed my hand and held it. I held her hand sitting there quietly, then I kissed her hand.
Well it sounds like you listened and validated so that is good, but wow it sounds like she has some issues she needs to work through with a counselor. Is she going to IC?
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So that was a couple days ago. So today she is a bit cold not sure what to make of it.
This is very common. The WAS pulls back, then opens up, then pulls back again because they don't "want to give you the wrong idea" or feel they let things go too far. Your response should be to pull back and give her time and space. Just keep doing what you said above- focus on your weight loss, your kids, your business and work in some GAL. DO NOT PURSUE HER because that will just push her farther away. No pressure on her.
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what is my next move? Should I try be more affectionate? Should I slack off again?
Definitely do not push affection on her. Like I said above, give her time and space and work on you. I wouldn't call that "slacking off".
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I confronted my wife today about the texts with the guy from work. She blew up on me and is very angry. No mention of her EA just angry that I looked in her phone, she mentioned that it's controlling, and she's probably right.
This is something you need to work on. Stop that ASAP. No more snooping. When you snoop all you do is gather a bunch of confusing info that you can read several different ways, and if you call her out then it'll only cause resentment and send her deeper undercover.
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If we can't have everything in the open than we can't build a new relationship as far as I am concerned.
You are putting the cart before the horse. First you've got to work to regain her trust and interest. THEN you can work on being open. She is not going to want to be open to you right now so don't push for that. It should be a condition for recon but you are not there yet.
What is my next move? Should I try be more affectionate? Should I slack off again?
That is the best first post I have ever read. You are on the right path. You have come to the right place to get stellar advise.
Your Job as the H is to protect the marriage.
"I am sorry you feel that way" goes a long, long way.
You had every right to snoop when you believe there is a threat to your marriage. You are on a difficult path, but the skills you gain will be worth it.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
i agree with everything Another Stander has given you except the issue with your confronting your W about the EA... i think you were right to do it... so many LBS avoid it like the plague--and i don't ever see that it helps them... when i was a WW, my H knew about my EA early on and said nothing... eventually the EA became a PA... had he mentioned it right away, i would have thrown myself at his feet, and i would have walked away from OM as i was not yet attached... once i became attached, it became difficult to walk away... i don't think you should keep bringing him up now... just don't let her think you are a fool...
i do get her anger toward you... i am amazed at how many LBHusbands realize at BD how in love they are with their wives, even after years of neglecting their wives... i don't get it... but at this point, it's too late to figure that out... now you must deal with the issue at hand...
i agree with everything Another Stander has given you except the issue with your confronting your W about the EA... i think you were right to do it... so many LBS avoid it like the plague--and i don't ever see that it helps them... when i was a WW, my H knew about my EA early on and said nothing... eventually the EA became a PA... had he mentioned it right away, i would have thrown myself at his feet, and i would have walked away from OM as i was not yet attached... once i became attached, it became difficult to walk away... i don't think you should keep bringing him up now... just don't let her think you are a fool... --artista
Thanks Artista, it was a good move, I put it on the table and it freed me from feeling like I was punched in the gut. It gave me more confidence and it healed me from it.
Update, spent some time at home with the wife and the kids late last week and early this week, hired a new manager at my store she is picking up my slack which is awesome and has allowed me to spend more time at home. Went home last Friday, wife had to work night shift all weekend, so I grabbed my kids and took them out camping Saturday and Sunday, there were numerous friends there, had a blast kids had a blast, good times at the campfire, lots of laughs and photos. Noticed the W sending me selfies every night before work, complimented her, then went silent. Got back Monday afternoon W was still sleeping at 3 because she was working 11:00 pm to 7:00 am shift. I had a big post on Facebook with loads of photos of friends and the kids and having fun, and noted when she did get up she was acting a bit out of sorts, I am assuming she saw the post and maybe she was irritated it looked like everyone was having so much fun without her, neighbor came over and hes a single dad living with his parents across the alley, our kids play together and she was telling him they should go out to some club and then we had her birthday dinner planned for the 4th with the family and shes inviting him and his kids along and we were sitting on the deck and I was talking to him about hunting season and how I would like to get out a bit more this year and get more serious about it and she said "oh good well you will have lots of time" then she got up and went in the house, I didn't say a word. Just kept chatting with the neighbor, and yes I know he has a massive crush on her he likes Latina women, but I don't care much he's not a major threat to my marriage don't mind him visiting he's a good guy other than he wants to bang my wife and shack up with her lol. I told her if she wants to go to the club with him to go ahead I have no interest.
I also want to mention that when I confronted her about her EA I told her that we have no trust with all these locked phones, me included, so I told her I unlocked my phone she can go and look anytime at my messages or facebook, I was done with that. I noted her iPad is unlocked, her computer, and I believe her phone is also unlocked, I didn't look but I have no interest in it anymore.
So fast forward to that night. We sat at the kitchen table talking, she wasn't tired because she was still in night shift mode. She asked me to stay up with her. There was some intimate joking by her. We were very open with our talk. We talked about a lot of things. Then she jokingly said "what do you want to do now, play cards, make love?" Then she says "no not doing that again". And I said "no problem I don't want to be pulled in and pushed back out that's fine". Then to my shock she brought up her EA, I hadn't mentioned it since the confrontation. She told me he's not the only guy at work that came onto her, she also told me she has no interest in him, and she apologized, I told her I understand and it's done, as long as it's the end of it. Meanwhile it being her birthday the next day I got her a dozen roses and some wine and a card, and laid it on her pillow, she went upstairs for something and came back down and hugged me and kissed me she was completely glowing over it. So it was about 12:30 am and I said well I am done and we went to bed, we were in our en-suite bathroom brushing teeth washing faces etc and I was trying to pee and she was reaching in the cabinet above and rubbing against me (yeah I know sorry not to spare you guys sounds like a fricken soap opera) and then we laid down and she was only in panties and a top and no pajamas means one thing. Started with a back rub for her and you know where that ended up.
In the morning I had a cake for her and me and the kids sang happy birthday. It was the kids first day of school back so we took them together (our son has autism he needs a lot of support for massive transitions we agreed we would both be there) and then went back to the house, I stayed home, and I was working and she said "oh come watch this show with me" some kinda Netflix of HBO thing she is watching and yeah next thing you know, well you know.
That evening we went to a nice Italian place with the family and had a birthday dinner. She seemed very happy all day. We went home and she was very tired I rubbed her back until she fell asleep, it was early, like 9:30, then I went downstairs and watched TV until about midnight. Things are looking pretty good for us. I have counseling again Friday, went last Friday (she said I would never follow through she probed me a bit about my session and I just said yeah it was good for me). The counselor didn't do much for me, maybe validated some of my feelings, I got less from the counselor than I do from my 2 best friends that I vent on, but my wife appreciates that I am seeing a "professional".
When I left this morning, she hugged me and kissed me. I am feeling far less cut off. I expect her to go hot and cold off and on but I am feeling very positive.
So to all of you struggling, when I had a WW and I thought I was going to lose my family, there is hope, I will say TAKE THE ADVICE of what you read here and follow it, if your relationship is savable it is savable by following the advice you find here.
Be careful assuming the EA is completely over. Just be vigilant and give it time. You'll know it is over when her actions are consistent over a long period of time. Like months.
Also, do not feel locked into your IC. If the one you are seeing isn't doing much for you feel free to try another. So many stay with an IC that doesn't do much for them. They are too expensive to settle like that.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Be careful assuming the EA is completely over. Just be vigilant and give it time. You'll know it is over when her actions are consistent over a long period of time. Like months.
Also, do not feel locked into your IC. If the one you are seeing isn't doing much for you feel free to try another. So many stay with an IC that doesn't do much for them. They are too expensive to settle like that.
Steve thank you for the advice and support. I am aware that the EA may not be completely over, but I can't let it consume me or suck my energy. I have the ability to control my actions and that's all I can do. It does enter my mind at times but I refuse to bring it up again, she can if she wants to. As far as I know she is coming to me for her sexual needs which is a positive step forward. I took the advice of "don't believe anything she tells you" to heart I am cautiously optimistic.
As far as my IC I am not expecting a lot, it's just a venting channel for me. I have 2 very good friends that have helped me far more than any counseling will ever help me, I don't expect someone who doesn't know me intimately and is not a stakeholder in my emotions to help me much. I have another session tomorrow, first session I talked a lot, now I am going to talk very little and see what she has to tell me. If we sit there in silence at $180/hr I might look for someone else.
As far as I know she is coming to me for her sexual needs which is a positive step forward.
So when my W started having sex with me the vets here rightly pointed out that while she might physically be with me, she could have mentally and emotionally been with OM. Not saying this to burst your bubble but so that you are aware of the complexity that a WW is.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So when my W started having sex with me the vets here rightly pointed out that while she might physically be with me, she could have mentally and emotionally been with OM. Not saying this to burst your bubble but so that you are aware of the complexity that a WW is.
I hear you Steve and that's a good point. She is still skeptical of my change and for that reason she is still somewhat emotionally detached. I am realistic but I can't know what's actually true unless I snoop (which I don't feel like doing) or she talks to me about. I think GAL is the key for me, and I need to keep focusing on that, say she drops a bomb on me and runs off with her EA and it goes PA, it's always a possibility. If that happens I pull back completely and basically stop going home and only deal with her about the kids.
i agree with everything Another Stander has given you except the issue with your confronting your W about the EA... i think you were right to do it...
Sorry I did not explain what I was talking about very clearly, when I was telling him to "stop doing that" I didn't mean confronting her, I meant snooping. Sometimes some snooping is required to find out there is an A taking place, but once you know that then in my opinion it's kind of pointless to keep snooping. It's real easy to misunderstand the info you've snooped, and to draw the wrong conclusions. For example, early on before I found DB'ing my XW and I were going to MC and were given some forms to fill out and turn into the C beforehand. My W gave me her filled out forms to put with mine to give to the C. I snooped and looked at her forms and saw she had responded on some of the questions that she had been physically abused. I was shocked! I never touched her in a harmful way, immediately I tried to spin it into something, was she setting me up? Was she building a case against me to use in divorce to make me look abusive? Then when we were in MC the C read it and asked her about it and she explained how a BF from 30 years before had threatened her with a knife and said he was going to kill her. So the info had nothing to do with me at all. This is what I mean, when we snoop and see things we're prone to spin them into terrible things without really knowing what they mean at all.
As far as confronting about an A, yes I do agree with that. If you know an A is taking place, then by all means let them know that you know. Just expect them to deny, deny, deny. Don't believe the denials. When they demand proof just tell them there's no need, you both know what's going on. Don't tell them "I looked at your FB messages" or "I looked on your phone" or whatever, because what's the point? You're just giving them ammo to paint you as the bad guy because you are "invading their privacy." Don't give them the ammo, it's enough that you know, and you don't owe them an explanation.
Also once you know there's an A, is there any reason to keep snooping? I mean that's about as bad as it gets, there's no "good" A versus "bad" A, they're all bad!
I hope that makes more sense than what I typed before
Be careful assuming the EA is completely over. Just be vigilant and give it time. You'll know it is over when her actions are consistent over a long period of time. Like months.
Exactly. Things sound like they are going well enough but I still think you need to pull back a bit and give her time and space. Don't assume everything is "back to normal", a lot of potential recons have been derailed because the LBS fell back into the same old habits after the WAS gave them another chance. You're on probation right now!
