Ok, so I got off the dating app. I'm still talking to one guy on there that is going through basically the same sh!t I am. H knows about him and his situation. He actually empathized with the guy. He legit does not seem to care that I'm talking to him.
So.... I saw my IC yesterday. H went to see him on Friday. When H came home, I asked him how he liked the IC, and he said that he was told that he didn't need to see him and should find another counselor both for himself and for marital counseling. Obviously this was confusing to me. So I asked about it yesterday. We both know the laws about what he can and can't say to me. So he gave me this analogy:
If someone went to the dentist saying that they had cavities and needed their teeth fixed, the dentist would tell them to come in and see them. Upon coming in, the dentist realizes that the patient has sores all over their body, they're twitchy, and their teeth are rotting. The root problem is not the cavities. It's most likely meth. Fixing their cavities is not going to solve their problem.
H is not on drugs. Basically he is alluding that H might have a personality disorder, which he is not specialized in. He asked if I felt like I was crazy and not knowing what to expect one moment to the next. Well of course (hence the title of this thread). He said, "I see what you see."
So at least I'm not the crazy one.
But this man is in my life until I die, or all my children die, whichever comes first (I hope it's me). I do love him. When he's Dr. Jekyll, he's so wonderful. But Mr. Hyde is just a f@cking nightmare.
I want to help him. He's got to get better, if not for me then for the sake of our kids. There is no way he won't ruin his relationships with them eventually too if he keeps this up. He doesn't know how to have a healthy family relationship.
The last two nights that were "his nights out" he stayed in to talk with me... but it was to try to convince me what I needed to do to move out. I'm not moving out. When I say this, he threatens to stop paying the mortgage and blames me for saying I'm going to waste "so much money" bc I refuse to cooperate with the D.
"At least I'm not the crazy one". I think that's a bad thing to say. And he'll never get the help he needs with that attitude. You are too adversarial with your mindset.
Work on yourself, focus on yourself.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
I didn't mean for it to be me vs. him. More of just.... it's good to know that I'm not losing my mind. He gaslights me. Constantly.
To my surprise, he agreed to see one of the therapists that my IC recommended. We'll see if we can get him scheduled. The counselor said they didn't have an opening until the week of the 20th.
H: That's too far. Then do early Monday. Me: early Monday the week of the 20th? H: Yeah but stop dragging this out. I want divorce.
But I called and tried to schedule the appt for him. I had to leave a VM, and gave the counselor his contact information to set up something with him. I told him, and he said thanks.
We'll see what happens.
He deleted all record of our gchats. I was trying to find a picture he had sent me back in April (something completely unrelated to any of this), and that's how I realized he'd done it. He told me that he did it to "free up space on his phone." I don't believe that for a second. He's never done that. In 15 years of being together, he's never just deleted all of his conversations of stuff. The only other time he's done that, that I'm aware of, is when he broke things off with the OW 7 years ago. I'm sure he did it in order to save him from looking like a crazy person in text. Either that, or he copied it all to make me look bad (we've both said horrid things via text). The only thing is, I don't have access to it anymore. So if he's made a copy to use against me, I'm screwed.
I'm going to test drive a car today. I don't really want a new car, but I don't think I have much of a choice. I had a friend offer to go with me (a male friend) and suddenly H wants to come with me too. I basically told him no. We'll see what happens with that.
Today I was able to talk with a resume and HR specialist about my job search. He seemed to be really in sync with what I was saying, and said he'd probably be able to help me not only from a resume standpoint but also networking. That would be great. I also joined a networking app that's kinda like Tinder, only for business purposes. I have several phone calls lined up over the next couple of weeks to network with people to see if I can get something better occupationally.
The kids start school next week. I want to be much more heavily involved in their mornings this year now that baby isn't so little. H seems to completely forget that that's what I was doing last year. We would divide and conquer in the mornings. I would get the baby, he would get the two big kids. Now that baby is bigger, I can realistically do more with the big kids... and I want to. I don't see them nearly as much as I'd like now. I can't imagine how rarely I'll see them if we D.
That's it for now, I guess. Tonight's my "night out" but I think it will consist mainly of back to school shopping and getting a few essential items for me. Exciting stuff.
I don't know how to get more space without moving out.
Last night was a total sh!tshow.
I had mentioned I was going to test drive that car. The friend that I made who H knows about who's also going through hell... I told him I was going to do this. He asks if he can come along to get his mind off things and he actually knows something about cars. I say sure.
Less than 10 minutes later, H is insisting that he wants to come do the test drive with me. The dealership is right next to my work, and H is almost an hour away from me. It makes no sense.
He must be reading my texts.
I switch over to another messaging app that my friend is on and tell him I'll be using that to talk to him. He doesn't seem to mind. He encourages me to call H back and take him up on the test drive. Says it's a good sign that he wants to do something significant with me. I agree.
So I text H and ask if he wants to go. Now he doesn't want to, and instead starts blowing up my phone about our "agreement" concerning me having designated nights to be with the kids and him having designated nights in order for me to be able to try doing private practice and simulate "real separation" telling me he's not expecting me to come home until way past when the kids go to bed.
Uh, what? We only talked about the possibility of this. We never actually agreed to anything. I couldn't get him to actually sit down with me and talk out all the details and when exactly we would start this. I even told him the other day if I were to start taking on clients at night, I wouldn't do it until Labor Day to get my ducks in a row. He didn't even acknowledge that statement.
He accuses me of pulling some type of stunt, saying that we had made all these agreements that never actually happened. Saying I'm going to make this D horrible for everyone.
I just couldn't handle his crazy. I really couldn't. I told him I was not prepared to not see the kids tonight and I needed to nurse the baby and hadn't brought my pump with me bc I thought I'd be seeing him that night, so I'd be coming home after going to the dealership.
One of his best friends, who is also divorced, was on FB and I messaged her because he's been asking me to talk to her about how her kids have fared in the three years following her divorce. She told me that they've been talking a lot lately and she knows that he filed and that we're talking "next steps."
This just sent me over the edge. He's talking next steps. I'm not.
I proceeded to tell her his dark secret. That he's had a PA and an EA. She basically tells me I should leave him and that my kids will be fine.
I cry in my driveway for 30 minutes before I can pull myself together to go into my house.
We jointly put the kids to bed, and then I leave to go run an errand. I message my friend letting him know H declined going to drive the car and went off on a wild tangent. We agree to meet up for a beer at a local restaurant. We just drink our beer (well, wine for me), and commiserate about what hell our significant others are going through. We finish up around 10, and I still need to stop at Walmart for a few school supplies for D1. I message him while I'm in Walmart about something funny and then on my way home (about at 15 minute drive) H messages me through this same app and tells me things I've said to my friend and calls him my online boyfriend.
My blood runs cold. I don't know how he's able to do this. I've never used that app on any other device. It's not connected to any other account. I don't know how 1) he knows I'm using it and 2) he knows EXACTLY what I've said.
I get home and sit in my driveway for about 20 minutes trying to think of what to do. I cut the engine during this time and just stare at my phone. Clearly H is awake. Clearly he is upset. I don't know how to proceed.
Finally I turn my car back on and open the garage to pull in, and out walks H, out of the side yard door, middle finger up in the air and comes over to my driver side door.
H: F@cking cheating I see Me: What are you talking about? H: You were out drinking with a guy, having some type of f@ck session. Me: I went and had a beer with a friend and we talked about our sad situations. And why do you care? You are trying to divorce me! H: It's just good for the courts to see.
I don't really remember what happens after this. I just know we're up for at least another hour or two, and at one point I'm crying so hard I can't breathe. Eventually H takes me in his lap and holds me while I sob.
I look terrible. I look like someone has punched me in the face.
I've cried for at least 3 hours today. H is saying that he was just able to see everything I use my phone mic for "in the cloud." He's deleting out conversations on Hangouts. I just can't handle the lies and the deception. I don't know exactly what he's doing or how he's doing it, but the sheer fact that he tells me I'm crazy while he's pulling this is just maddening.
And then I tell my friend what happened last night and he says, "I'm sorry, it's probably best if we don't talk then. Good luck, but I can't get involved in this."
So now I've lost the person who was willing to listen to me and support me throughout the day with all this crazy and understood the crazy, but didn't judge me or H for it.
So I'm isolated again.
I don't know how to get away from him to get space and time and clarity without leaving my children vulnerable. And ruining myself financially. I just don't know what to do.
Eryam, I'm so sorry to hear all this. There's so much to sort through, so many emotions, so many dynamics, and it sounds so complicated between kids and finances and career. That doesn't seem fair that your husband is divorcing you and yet he wants to spy on you. My thinking is still that maybe he wasn't planning to divorce you but he filed when he found out you were talking to other men. You could do a 180 and start staying home at night and just tending to things in the house, but based on what I briefly read it seems you and your husband have been unhappy for many years. It doesn't sound as though any one single action could turn things around at this point. I'm not sure if things have gone up and down because obviously you stayed together and had three kids but it seems you and your husband have had trouble connecting emotionally and perhaps also haven't put the other first in the relationship. Your husband may be kind of abusive and has his own issues that affect you so deeply. It's hard to know his side of the story or what he could be thinking. I remember you saying though that he controls the finances and that doesn't sound like an ideal partnership. I guess the big question is whether you and your husband have had enough good times together to believe you can be happy together again? If you're making each other miserable and both leaning on friends of the opposite sex for support when you're still married in the same house then that may be pushing you both further apart. I don't know. If I were you I'd probably try to relax as much as possible to think rationally, and then think seriously if trying to reconcile is the best thing for you and your family. If you still want to save the marriage then perhaps reducing the drama associated with these nights out would be one good step. It doesn't sound like it's worth all that fighting and suspicion to go sit at a bar....perhaps just for a while you could try staying home every night and just let your husband see that you're not trying to meet other men and see if he calms down. He sounds pretty confused and so do you. It's a fragile situation. I really know what it's like to cry for hours and to just feel so broken. It's the worst feeling in the world, especially when life is so complicated and stressful with little kids and work. I hope you can get some rest and give yourself a chance to sit and think quietly as well as give your kids lots of love. The love they show in return is honestly better, more unconditional, and more beautiful than anything else in this world.
I don't know how to get more space without moving out.
Last night was a total sh!tshow.
I had mentioned I was going to test drive that car. The friend that I made who H knows about who's also going through hell... I told him I was going to do this. He asks if he can come along to get his mind off things and he actually knows something about cars. I say sure.
Less than 10 minutes later, H is insisting that he wants to come do the test drive with me. The dealership is right next to my work, and H is almost an hour away from me. It makes no sense.
He must be reading my texts.
I switch over to another messaging app that my friend is on and tell him I'll be using that to talk to him. He doesn't seem to mind. He encourages me to call H back and take him up on the test drive. Says it's a good sign that he wants to do something significant with me. I agree.
So I text H and ask if he wants to go. Now he doesn't want to, and instead starts blowing up my phone about our "agreement" concerning me having designated nights to be with the kids and him having designated nights in order for me to be able to try doing private practice and simulate "real separation" telling me he's not expecting me to come home until way past when the kids go to bed.
Uh, what? We only talked about the possibility of this. We never actually agreed to anything. I couldn't get him to actually sit down with me and talk out all the details and when exactly we would start this. I even told him the other day if I were to start taking on clients at night, I wouldn't do it until Labor Day to get my ducks in a row. He didn't even acknowledge that statement.
He accuses me of pulling some type of stunt, saying that we had made all these agreements that never actually happened. Saying I'm going to make this D horrible for everyone.
I just couldn't handle his crazy. I really couldn't. I told him I was not prepared to not see the kids tonight and I needed to nurse the baby and hadn't brought my pump with me bc I thought I'd be seeing him that night, so I'd be coming home after going to the dealership.
One of his best friends, who is also divorced, was on FB and I messaged her because he's been asking me to talk to her about how her kids have fared in the three years following her divorce. She told me that they've been talking a lot lately and she knows that he filed and that we're talking "next steps."
This just sent me over the edge. He's talking next steps. I'm not.
I proceeded to tell her his dark secret. That he's had a PA and an EA. She basically tells me I should leave him and that my kids will be fine.
I cry in my driveway for 30 minutes before I can pull myself together to go into my house.
We jointly put the kids to bed, and then I leave to go run an errand. I message my friend letting him know H declined going to drive the car and went off on a wild tangent. We agree to meet up for a beer at a local restaurant. We just drink our beer (well, wine for me), and commiserate about what hell our significant others are going through. We finish up around 10, and I still need to stop at Walmart for a few school supplies for D1. I message him while I'm in Walmart about something funny and then on my way home (about at 15 minute drive) H messages me through this same app and tells me things I've said to my friend and calls him my online boyfriend.
My blood runs cold. I don't know how he's able to do this. I've never used that app on any other device. It's not connected to any other account. I don't know how 1) he knows I'm using it and 2) he knows EXACTLY what I've said.
I get home and sit in my driveway for about 20 minutes trying to think of what to do. I cut the engine during this time and just stare at my phone. Clearly H is awake. Clearly he is upset. I don't know how to proceed.
Finally I turn my car back on and open the garage to pull in, and out walks H, out of the side yard door, middle finger up in the air and comes over to my driver side door.
H: F@cking cheating I see Me: What are you talking about? H: You were out drinking with a guy, having some type of f@ck session. Me: I went and had a beer with a friend and we talked about our sad situations. And why do you care? You are trying to divorce me! H: It's just good for the courts to see.
I don't really remember what happens after this. I just know we're up for at least another hour or two, and at one point I'm crying so hard I can't breathe. Eventually H takes me in his lap and holds me while I sob.
I look terrible. I look like someone has punched me in the face.
I've cried for at least 3 hours today. H is saying that he was just able to see everything I use my phone mic for "in the cloud." He's deleting out conversations on Hangouts. I just can't handle the lies and the deception. I don't know exactly what he's doing or how he's doing it, but the sheer fact that he tells me I'm crazy while he's pulling this is just maddening.
And then I tell my friend what happened last night and he says, "I'm sorry, it's probably best if we don't talk then. Good luck, but I can't get involved in this."
So now I've lost the person who was willing to listen to me and support me throughout the day with all this crazy and understood the crazy, but didn't judge me or H for it.
So I'm isolated again.
I don't know how to get away from him to get space and time and clarity without leaving my children vulnerable. And ruining myself financially. I just don't know what to do.
First, he is gaslighting you. Don't let him make you feel crazy. Look up gaslighting and how to deal with it.
He has installed spyware on your phone. There is no doubt about it. I would do a factory reset on your phone and then I would lock it with a new lock code that he doesn't know.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Oh he's definitely gas lighting me. Attempting to, anyway.
Yes, things have been bad for a long time. We've both played a part. I still have not really forgiven him for what he did to me 7 years ago. He is incredibly controlling with me. It is incredibly fragile.
To my surprise, he actually does have an appointment scheduled with the recommended counselor on the 21st. I asked if he wanted me to schedule a marital counseling session with her practice partner, who happens to be her husband. H never replied to my question.
I'm going to back up everything and then do a factory reset on my phone. Jesus, I never thought it would get this out of hand.
He tried to do it again last night. Gaslight me, that is. S1's school changed their start time this year, making us need to be there almost 20 minutes earlier every day. That adds up. I came home, and immediately he says to me, "so, what are you gonna do about your work once school starts next week? We won't be able to have the au pair work past 1 PM on Friday if you plan on leaving the house with S1 at 7:30, so what are you gonna do?"
Me: Well, what days are you working from home? H: None. Me: What? You told me that you would only be going in a couple days a week so you'd be home with the baby so she didn't have to start her day until later. H: No, I need to start going into work everyday. I need to leave by 7:30 too, so that's going to push her time back to where she hit her 45 weekly hours by 1 PM on Fridays. I make more than twice what you make, so I can't be the one to be putting my job in jeopardy by leaving early every Friday and coming home early. You're going to have to figure something out. Me: H, I can't just take a half day every Friday. H: Then GTFO, and I'll figure it out myself. Me: H, I don't know what you want me to do! I can't just dictate my hours! I have clients, I have a boss that schedules me.... H: Stop freaking out, you're so crazy. This is why you can't be with the kids. This is your crazy. We just need to be a team and figure it out. Instead you start freaking out. Me: A team? How am I supposed to be a team if you come at with the tone of 'this is your problem and you need to solve it." Of course I'm going to freak out when you tell me I have to start taking a half day every week when I'm already having problems at work... H: Just STFU and calm down. You'll be fine.
At this point it's time to put the kids to bed, so I disengage. We put the kids to bed, and when I come back out, I grab my notebook and sit on the couch opposite him to try to sit down and come up with plans A, B, and C to figure out how we can both do our jobs and not go over the 45 hours for the au pair.
Me: Ok, so let's try to figure out how we're going to do this... H: I'll just leave for work at 8. That will solve it. Me: .... well what time would you come home? H: I'll be home by 5. That way she's just 8 to 5 every day. I'll get to work at 8:30 and leave at 4:30. Me: are you sure? H: Yeah, it'll be fine.
So that was the end of that.....
Then this morning, it was meet the teacher from 7:30 to 8:30. We both wanted to go, but we didn't want to bring the boys, so we agreed I'd to go first, then he could go at 8ish so the boys could stay home with him while I'm there, then stay with the au pair starting at 8. So I went, and to my surprise, it isn't just a "hi, I'm Miss So and So, nice to meet you!" but it was a whole thing where D had to sort her school supplies, fill out paperwork, etc. So my time bled over to 8:10ish. Meanwhile, he's texting me wondering where I am. And he tells me I need to switch cars when I come home, which I don't understand, but I don't feel like arguing, so I tell him I'll pull around to the garage.
H: No, pull around to the front. We're waiting out here. Me: We? H: Yeah, we're all out in the front.
So I pull up to the front of the house, and he has the boys and the au pair waiting to pile into the car.
Me: What's going on? H: What do you mean? We're going up to the school. Me: I thought that you were going alone. I took the baby sit out of this car bc I thought you were going alone. H: Ugh, well where is it? Me: Right inside the front door. We said the boys weren't going. H: No, we talked about this last night. You don't remember, do you? Me: .... no, I guess I don't (not really in a questioning way, more in a "whatever, let's move on" way).
So I get out, change cars, and start heading to work. I text him, "I thought the whole reason we were going separately was so that we didn't have to drag the boys up to the school and they could just stay home."
And to my surprise, I get this back, "Oh. You're right. Sorry."
Holy sh!t. That, like, never happens. He 1) never admits when I'm right and 2) rarely apologizes. I mean, I can very distinctly remember the handful of times he's said the words, "I'm sorry"
Also, last night was "my night" and I did what you recommended, Nicole, and just stayed home. I took the opportunity to declutter my room. This new au pair does MUCH more cleaning than the previous au pair, so I'm not having to spend my time cleaning "community areas" and I'm able to spend my time tidying up my personal spaces, which tend to get the most neglected. It was great. I love a clean house. It makes my brain so happy. So I decluttered for about a half hour and then I just sat in my bed and read for about another hour. At one point, H asked if he could go on a run. It had literally started lightening and storming not 5 minutes before this. I said, "yeah sure, but how do I access your life insurance policy in case you get struck by lightening?" That made him laugh. He in turn said a joke too, which I laughed at (one of my favorite qualities about him is he is really funny). He decided not to go on a run. H stayed downstairs in the living room and eventually I got ready for bed. I let the dog out one last time, and said good night to him. He said good night, and I saw about 10 minutes later he turned off the lights and went upstairs.
He did not explicitly say the word divorce yesterday. I think that's the first time we've had a day like that since this mess really exploded.
So he hasn't told me to move out or talked about getting a D in three days. He's also been generally pleasant. I don't know if this is truly a good sign, or if he's just playing me.
The kids start school tomorrow. He wasn't snide or sarcastic when I said I wanted to talk about the schedule for this week and the things we were doing. He was generally supportive of things I said to the kids today in prepping for the first day of school. Only once or twice can I remember a specific contemptuous action/comment.
I'm still trying to give a lot of space. I haven't gone out at night in a few nights. I have taken the kids to the gym both today and yesterday. I've continued to tidy up/organize. I feel better about my sh!t.
I'm doing better with general bodily functioning. I'm eating and sleeping fairly normally.
I'll continue to keep an eye on things. I hope this is signs of a tide turning, and not the calm before the storm.
He was generally snippy this morning. I ignored it.
He told me it was his night out bc I refused to compromise about specific nights out. I don't remember this but whatever.
Today he talked separation for the first time in 5 days. I still haven't been served.
Last night his drug addict brother told him he's lost his kids for at least another 6 months. And one of his best friend's wife lost twins. She was about 20 weeks along.
I'm trying to give him space. He has a lot on his plate too.
I lost my cool when he was talking separation. At least it was over text. My IC pointed out he waited to do it until right before my therapy session. I hadn't even realized, but yes, he knew exactly where I'd be and when. It was probably no coincidence. IDK if it was intentional.
He's had a few moments today where he made a mistake an apologized. Little things. But that's still out of the norm for him.
