Am I Piecing, or Pi$$ing in the wind???

[EastTN]

Remember "moral victories are not victories?" You're still trying to win. You will not win by proving that she's lying to you. At best, you will simply train her to be a better liar. You will not achieve anything at all by being "right" here. You will undermine your goals by doing so.

What are your goals? Are your actions helping you achieve those goals?

[Clyde]

Hello East

Remember "moral victories are not victories?" You're still trying to win. You will not win by proving that she's lying to you. At best, you will simply train her to be a better liar. You will not achieve anything at all by being "right" here. You will undermine your goals by doing so.

That quote has been imbedded in my head through out this, that being said, at the moment I am 99% sure I am over this M, so while I may not "win", I'm not sure there is anything to lose by drawing this line. To many lies, not to mention the last time she stashed cash (by stealing it from me) she was preparing to leave... and for those of you not familiar w/ my sitch, I'll bring you up to speed - she and her "sister" tried to have me arrested several times for false accusations, when that failed she filed a bogus TRO that got thrown out of the courts 4 days after being served. So this lie in particular is a sensitive subject.

She is somewhat scrambling, trying to explain/debate/argue/lie the last few disagreements away, if she really wants to leave why is she doing that (she said she was done w/ M when I tried to talk to her about her lack of consideration the other day). Once she said that I said fine so be it, other than bringing up the tax return I have not engaged. I know this is a surprise to her, last go round, prior to seperation I was constantly trying to talk things out, not only do I know that is not going to work (having done it once), I do not want to dilute the reasons she is ending the M, the line she is drawing in the sand. She is a master at diverting convos, taking the train off the tracks, if I engaged in these convos w/ her it would sow 10 other things for her to justify her actions. So as she contemplates wether or not to get serious about working on our M or calling it quits she only has these two subjects to contemplate, all that being said... again I do not know if I'm up for it. East, your post has slowed me for the first time in days and encouraged me to re-evaluate my stance, I will do so as much is on the line.

I have been detaching for months, I see her try at times, then completely drop the ball. I've touched base in the last 20 or few post how my needs are not getting met. I am an attractive guy, I've always worked out - been muscular and in great shape, it's been years since she has complimented me on my looks (I tell her how beautiful she is a few times a week), I play guitar and sing any chance I get, I've never heard her say "hey that sounded good" (ok... maybe I just $uck, lol). During separation I went to a few concerts/shows, on more than one occasion I was approached by women interested in me, and you know what - it felt pretty damn good, it's been a while since the W made me feel like that. I've found myself thinking - wow I see how affairs happen... here I am giving my all to this women, how long to I go on banking on the potential of this relationship. I think you get the point, but to be clear, I would never have an affair.

What are your goals? Are your actions helping you achieve those goals?

Even though I may be at a crossroad on my journey, as I go over my goals they are much the same.

Be the best father I can be, take in every moment I am blessed with while w/ my kids and make the most of it.

Continue to grow mentally and spiritually, be the man only a fool would leave. Continue to address my shortcomings and flaws, be more patient, communicate better, work on control issues.

GAL...play more guitar, mountain bike, go to shows, and something I have been putting off for years but hope to start soon luthiering (make guitars!)

[Gordie]

Clyde

I have been rooting for you from the sidelines for a long time

And right now I agree you are pissing in the wind

My onbservations

You are still trying to act like you are married

Complimenting her

Giving foot rubs

Taking care of her car accident

Wanting her to care more about your opinion than the sister

Wanting to be a united front with daughter

Arguing and trying to convince her you are right

Is this working



I agree with East

The counterintuitive part of d b

Is that you have to let go

If she wants to go out with sister every night let her

If she wants to go to teddy parties let her

You cannot control her

But you can control you

She knows you would not want her to go to a teddy party

She is pushing your buttons

I think fewer words and more actions might get you farther

She does like it when you get mad

You frequently have sex afterwards

I think the confidence and passion excites her

The next time you have work to finish and she asks you to do something

Just say no I cannot do that for you today

Or better yet ignore her phone call or text message

And then go do your work

Right now she says jump and you say how high

And then she treats you disrespectfully

She does not thank you

She only thinks of herself

While she is only thinking of herself

You cannot be piecing

[AnotherStander]

Clyde, very sorry you're going through this. I would definitely not call this piecing, what it sounds like in every one of your posts in this thread is a marriage on the brink of failing. I can't decide who is poised to drop the bomb, it could be either you or your wife frankly. What the two of you are doing is clearly not working. Lots of resentment and anger building. Lots of passive/aggressive behavior from both of you. Time to get back to your DB'ing basics. Read the book again. You can't change her behavior, but you CAN change your behavior and THAT can change her behavior. And if she doesn't change her behavior, then there need to be repercussions.

I think you are pursuing her far too aggressively given her tepid involvement in the M. She keeps blowing off her marital responsibilities and you keep rescuing her. All that is doing is making her lose respect for you. So what do you do, well you pull back, give her time and space, get out and GAL. Leave her to figure her crap out while you go on with a great life.

And for heaven's sake, stop the hour-long foot rubs nearly every day. Meanwhile she's a massage therapist that won't touch you. ARE YOU SERIOUS??? I'm officially taking away your man-card until you earn it back, LOL!

And can you clarify something, you are 3 months behind on your mortgage and worried about foreclosure and just dealt with your electricity getting shut off, and your W takes D on a day-long shopping trip for TWO new dresses and shoes and such for a.... school dance? Am I really reading that right? I think you need to give some serious thoughts to what your priorities are and get your life back on track. All these attempts to appease your W are just killing you and your M. Time to man up!

[Clyde]

Clyde

I have been rooting for you from the sidelines for a long time

Thanks Gordie, much appreciated!

Is this working

No

I agree with East

The counterintuitive part of d b

Is that you have to let go

If she wants to go out with sister every night let her

If she wants to go to teddy parties let her

You cannot control her

But you can control you

She knows you would not want her to go to a teddy party

She is pushing your buttons

I think fewer words and more actions might get you farther

I am definitely a man of few words lately, I do not even acknowledge her when she walks in the room the past few days... this may not be good for DB'ing, but I'm not in the mood for masking my feelings towards her. Perhaps a little time, reflection, and I'll come around. I know I let it get this far, and that is my culpability in it.

The other day was D13's 8th grade dance, I was looking forward to seeing her off to the dance, getting her a wrist corsage, taking a picture or two with her. The morning of the dance, W told me that rather than getting ready at our house, she was taking D13 to the "sister's" house to get ready, and that I would not see her before the dance.
I told my W that my plans for pictures, corsage etc., told her again that I would of liked to of been kept in the loop as to these plans. W started coming up w/ reasons as to why I was wrong in my stance... I shut her down, I told her "No, I told you how I feel, I'm not going to argue about it, I can't argue anymore, it goes nowhere, I'm exhausted w/ all the BS, please, just let me be - I won't do it!"

She does like it when you get mad

You frequently have sex afterwards

I think the confidence and passion excites her

You might be right on this, I never looked at it from that angle

The next time you have work to finish and she asks you to do something

Just say no I cannot do that for you today

Or better yet ignore her phone call or text message

And then go do your work

That is my plan from here on out, yesterday morning she asked me what was going on with her truck and the insurance company, I told her, "I don't know, you should probably call them and find out." and I walked out of the room.

Right now she says jump and you say how high

And then she treats you disrespectfully

She does not thank you

She only thinks of herself

While she is only thinking of herself

You cannot be piecing

Spot on, I've tried to convince myself otherwise, I thought maybe she would show her appreciation and reciprocate, I was wrong.

[Clyde]

Clyde, very sorry you're going through this. I would definitely not call this piecing, what it sounds like in every one of your posts in this thread is a marriage on the brink of failing. I can't decide who is poised to drop the bomb, it could be either you or your wife frankly.

AS,

Thanks for both the condolences and advice. You are right about this not being piecing, along w/ either of us being poised to drop the bomb, as a mater of fact, rather than "pissing in the wind", my next thread might be called "pissing on the tombstone of my marriage".

What the two of you are doing is clearly not working. Lots of resentment and anger building. Lots of passive/aggressive behavior from both of you.

Please, if you don't mind, can you give me some examples of my passive/aggressive behavior (or any other ways I may be sabotaging our M). Maybe I am being one sided.

Time to get back to your DB'ing basics. Read the book again. You can't change her behavior, but you CAN change your behavior and THAT can change her behavior.

I Started reading DR again few weeks ago, I kinda sidelined it for a bit as I started reading NMMNG again, I'm really taking my time going through NMMNG this go round, examining how it relates to me and my NGS.

And if she doesn't change her behavior, then there need to be repercussions..

I don't know brother, I thought I was at the repercussions part already, sounds like you and a few others might think I am jumping the gun on it, you have all given me more than enough reason to pause and reconsider as I really value all of your guy's points of view. And from the outside, perhaps it is more clear.

I think you are pursuing her far too aggressively given her tepid involvement in the M. She keeps blowing off her marital responsibilities and you keep rescuing her. All that is doing is making her lose respect for you. So what do you do, well you pull back, give her time and space, get out and GAL. Leave her to figure her crap out while you go on with a great life.

I agree with you about the lack of respect, her tepid involvement, I have pulled back, and plan to continue, as you have read I am finding it hard to be cordial to her, perhaps that is something I need to address. The other complicated part is our financial sitch, I could use her help, and at this point in the dilemma, that requires R talk. As far as GAL, I continue to ramp it up every given opportunity.

And for heaven's sake, stop the hour-long foot rubs nearly every day. Meanwhile she's a massage therapist that won't touch you. ARE YOU SERIOUS???

Yeah, hard to figure out who is more oblivious in this sitch, or better yet, maybe I'm just oblivious and she is just cold hearted selfish!

I'm officially taking away your man-card until you earn it back, LOL!

LMAO (as sad as it is), yeah I deserve that one.

And can you clarify something, you are 3 months behind on your mortgage and worried about foreclosure and just dealt with your electricity getting shut off, and your W takes D on a day-long shopping trip for TWO new dresses and shoes and such for a.... school dance? Am I really reading that right? I think you need to give some serious thoughts to what your priorities are and get your life back on track. All these attempts to appease your W are just killing you and your M. Time to man up!

And so here is the catch 22, I am 100% in agreement w/ you. I have always controlled all financial dealings in our house, the W is working now and has her own money, in an attempt to be less controlling, I have asked little about her finances. To her credit she has been putting what I am guessing to be 99% of her pay to household bills up to know. How ever there is nothing set in stone.

I suggested D13 gets 1 dress and uses it for both the dance and 8th grade promotion, I had no idea she was getting shoes too! (W even came home w/ a new pair of shoes for herself). It's one of those things... pick my battles, if I put my foot down she would of done as she pleased, or lied and said the "sister" paid for them.

And then you have the tax return, I do not know what her intentions were here. After she got her taxes done she told me what she was getting back ($5200), if she planned on not contributing that to the household, then why did she not lie about the amount then? I occurred a lot of late penalties on CC's along w/ the mortgage that she was aware of while sitting on this money. I had no idea she made that payment arrangement w/ the elec. company or for how much, why did she not just take care of it? Why are we still sitting here to this day at risk of foreclosure?

Four months ago, before things were as bleak as they are now, I decided to sell my nice mountain bike and down grade to free up some cash, she knows how much that bike means to me, 7-8 years ago I built it piece by piece as I could buy the parts, not to mention I have been mountain biking weekly for the past few months. Anyhow, like I said I bought a more modest bike putting the rest of the money to the household, about two weeks ago I was sitting on the back patio w/ her, I told her that I was gonna have to sell my bike to get some cash. I thought she would of at least been like, "Gosh, that really bites, I know how much you have been enjoying riding lately... sorry babe, we'll get you another soon." Rather her response was nonchalant, and then to find out she was sitting on that money!!@!@!

[Clyde]

Yesterday was our anniversary, I did not mention it at all. Nor did she. We were supposed to go watch the sunset on the beach.

We planned on going to a free concert on saturday as part of our anniversary outing, yesterday she asked me what was "going on saturday?". I told her, "I'm still going". She looked shocked.
W: "oh really, so you have your ticket already?"
M: "nope, it is a free show, part of a brewery promotion, remember?"
W: "Oh, okay"

I knows she was thinking I was either not going to go, or tell her she should still go with me...NOT HAPPENING!!!

She brought it up again today, a few weeks ago I lined up for the kiddos to spend the night at my parents as we were both going to the show...

W: "so are the kids still going to your parents tomorrow night?"
M: "Yup, the've been looking forward to it, no need to cancel there overnighter at Gma's & Gpa's."
W: "So are you dropping them off?"
M: "Sure I can drop them off on my way to the show, that is unless you want too."

[Clyde]

about two weeks ago I was sitting on the back patio w/ her, I told her that I was gonna have to sell my bike to get some cash.

Just to clarify, this is the second "downgraded" bike... I had already sold the nice bike.

[Maika]

You selling your bike broke my heart man! You just sold a piece of you. Sure you can get it back and rebuild something new, but with your W being callous with money and you having to dig deep to keep the fam afloat is tragic. I don't have anything to add to what others have said, but you need to seriously start taking control of things that you can about your life.

I am sad because you had to sell your GAL, while she had money that she spent frivolously. Dayummm!! When I think about what piecing is, it has to include both partners working to save the M and protect the family and create a new partnership.

What just happened with you is not any of that. Sorry man, but time to take a hard line approach to gain back your sanity and b@lls.

[Clyde]

You selling your bike broke my heart man! You just sold a piece of you.

Thanks Maika,

To clarify I have not sold the second "downgrade" bike as of yet, it has been on Craig's list for the past two weeks, waiting for a new home.

I actually took it off Craig's list this a.m... came up w/ a new plan for the time being. The W's truck ended up being a total loss, the ins company will not even give us the option to fix it. Rather than take the full amount they are offering and getting another truck, I'm going to buy the truck back from them w/ a salvage title. That still leaves a good chunk of $ left over, I'm going to have any safety issues fixed on the truck and leave the rest for now. I will use the rest of the money to bring our bills current.

This is going to drive the W crazy, she is the type that washes/cleans her truck weekly, if she has to drive it around with the dents/damage it is really gonna bother her.

I mentioned it last night, to my surprise she did not contest the idea, however upon reflection after the talk I do not know if I was clear enough on what we were going to do w/ the left over money. I told her what the ins company offered, showed her that it was not enough to replace her truck w/ a comparable truck in the same shape hers was (hers was pristine) with out putting cash out of pocket. I told her let's do the minimum to get it safely back on the road for now, when we can afford it, we will look into replacing it, or having the body work done.

Like I said to my surprise she did not contest the idea, maybe she needs time to think it over, or maybe she thinks I'm going to do as I always have in the past... In the past I would of taken the opportunity to upgrade, I would of stashed that cash and added to it until I could afford something nicer for her. Sounds crazy that she would think that given our financial sitch, but I do not put anything past her.

So now I need to decide if I should clarify what we are going to do w/ the money or just go ahead and do it.