You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
It always helps me to read other people's situations as i can usually find something very useful to my situation buried in someone else's story. On this site, I've read that typically the "Wayward (WW)" or "Walk away Wife" (WAW) commits affairs whether they are emotional or physical (EA or PA) after a build-up of resentment of things that happened during the marriage. Your story sounds similar except that it doesn't seem that you are fully checked out of the relationship as most of the WW or WAW are.
This is a good sign and i agree with everyone else that he may be saying he isn't willing to risk his heart, but i would think he would if given a glimmer of hope. Read the LBS thread in Cadets set of links in its entirety to get the perspective of the LBS. In effect, i would thing your H feels as if you fall in the category of an Affair somewhat or at least very inappropriate behavior and is incredibly hurt that you would seek uot another. Especially in light of the fact that he told you how much it hurt the other time.
Anyway, getting back to the thread, some of the guidelines for the LBS to take back the WW are also listed in that thread and although some do not seem to apply to you the one where him to see true remorse would apply. Otherwise from his perspective he would feel the behavior would continue. It did actually, did't it? Some more experienced people on here than i can probably tie that into stories they've read. Anyway, have you shown him the your truly are remorseful of the situation?
Have you and your H gone to any counseling? I don't think i saw any mention of that in this thread, i have yet read your other thread. If not, perhaps suggest counseling. If you two are going to be living in a partnership, yet not fully married, then you could use that as an excuse for the counseling to help you two work on what that would look like. Be sure you pick a counselor that is pro-marriage and i think they would try to steer you together if given the opportunity.
In effect, he is detaching from you because he is hurt. You will need to detach as well, but don't let it come off as mysterious because then he may think you may be in another Affair.
I would suggest the following: 1) Try to stay together, at first a year, then longer if possible. Use the time to keep improving yourself. Self help books, IC, whatever 2) try and get him into MC. In my case, when we were working on things, i found that the W wasn't hearing what i said and the MC served as a bridge between us (a translator of sorts) 3) don't worry about the porn. Most guys watch it sometimes, although usually less when they are more active with their partner. If you really are concerned about that, then make you the fantasy instead. Instigate intimacy more. Most porn involves a aggressive woman making all the moves. Perhaps even watch a little of what you found and discuss it with him without criticizing him. ho knows, he may express some things you both might agree to use to spice things up.
Just my opinion of course. I envy your position, it has so much more hope of a reconciliation that the majority of stories on here.
Me 51, Wife 44; Married 4; Together 10; HSD20, XWSD13, XWSS14, XWSS17 Kids Together D4, D1.52 W Moves Out: 03/16/17 W Files : 03/17/17 D Final: 10/23/17
Been a little while since I've posted anything, my computer was down and trying to post from an iPhone is not ideal, ha. H was out of the country for about a month so we only communicated via text but much was said. He told me that he never wants to go anywhere socially with me again, we'll never be intimate again and he'll never trust me with his heart again. He refers to these "betrayals" constantly, which is basically like three occasions where I spoke to another male while we were out in a bar setting. All of these occasions we were out with several other people and he's calling them betrayals which I cannot understand. I have told him I truly couldn't care less about talking to another guy the rest of my life, so I can completely agree not to talk to guys in a social setting but that doesn't seem to matter. To me, it feels like an obsession...it's been over 4 years since this company party and he still carries on about it as though it were yesterday, I just can't understand. He has been far from perfect himself but I truly think he believes his IS perfect or at least that nothing he's ever done comes even remotely close to the horror of a wife that I have been. I do not know if he means it when he says we won't be a couple again or if he is trying to elicit something from me. We don't really speak unless it's about the kids or if he texts me about how horrible I've been which is ALWAYS when he's drinking. Any conversation we have about our relationship whether in person or via text, I can guarantee you he's drinking. He has told me that he still loves and cares for me but that he has accepted that we have two completely different ideas of what a relationship is and that I need something more/other than him. It's like he says these things so I can keep telling him over and over that it's not true, which I have ABSOLUTELY done SO many times. It's just not healthy for me....I feel like it has crossed the line into emotional abuse. Our relationship has declined worse than ever before, we don't really have any good memories or interactions to pull from aside from being a family because we have drifted so far apart. Spending time with just him and I has never been important to him and as a result, I feel like I don't even know who he is anymore. We have not gone to counseling, we went a few times after the OM situation a long time ago, but there's no way he would ever go again. I'm pretty sure he knows he has a very unusual way of viewing the world and no therapist would let him stay stuck there...and stuck is where he wants to be. I know guys say not to dwell on the pornography, etc. but just the very fact that he could say we'll never be intimate again shows me that I'm very replaceable by his online endeavors. I don't know how people live like this honestly, I can't talk to him, can barely even look at him. I'm so hurt because he has essentially emotionally divorced me but will shame me to death if I file for divorce....he's already made that VERY clear. I can't bring myself to tell him I love him anymore or that I want us to work. I just can't say the words even though I feel them very deeply. I can't say them because he's treated me so horribly, I'm honestly ashamed of myself for still loving him.
M: 43, H: 44 Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs S17, D15, D8, S6 Still living in MH
Helena, you have the right to feel so much despair. You're somewhat cornered. Just reading your post from a distance, my sense is that some time needs to pass before anything can change. It also sounds like it's not very productive communicating with your husband when he's drinking so is there a way to cut off the conversation? It seems like you've been in a position of weakness and he's been in a position of power when communicating about the relationship. He says so many things to hurt and weaken you. I wonder if maybe using a different approach to bring more balance would help, like responding using new types of statements like "we can't change the past, only focus on the future, and I'm working on x, y, z to reach my goals. If you don't support me then I'll work alone." Or something to show your independence and plan to be resilient....maybe that would help somehow?
Nicole, Yes I agree that passing of time is probably the best hope. It's already been over 4 years but it's only been a month or so since he's told me the "new parameters" for our relationship. I was wondering today if he still thinks he's required to be faithful or if he's also set conditions on that in his mind. There's so much that one feels and thinks in these situations and I know I'm not unique in that respect. Despite all my thoughts and feelings though, I think my best bet is not to say anything further to him about our relationship or lack thereof. I feel like he's essentially divorced me without filing papers and it is up to him to decide if he's going to continue it or change his mind. I feel that if he loves me, he wouldn't let me go. I don't want to convince someone that they should love me and that I'm worth holding onto despite my mistakes. So, if a year goes by and he has not softened his position, I guess I will know there is no hope. The question is how do I spend this year....do I wear my wedding rings? Is not talking about the relationship the best course of action? Independence just confirms to him that we have two different versions of what a R should be. He wants me to need him. So, getting a life and all of that, I just don't think it should be part of my strategy. I plan to just stay home and be a family like we normally do. I could really use some help and ideas in this area. As for the drinking and communication while he's drinking, it's just sort of the way it is. He drinks every other day and with 4 kids and a busy life, I've learned to take whatever communication I can get from him whether he's drinking or not. It's usually negative, but hey, at least he's talking ya know? His drinking used to bother me A LOT. It was the biggest problem we had in our earlier years because he was so structured and rigid...we could not do anything on his "drinking nights"....it was like this weird secret I had and I hated it. That was a large part of the OM situation. That and his overall sort of refusal to give me the emotional support that I needed from him, despite me telling him exactly what I needed from him. I cannot tell you how badly I wish I hadn't made the OM mistake. I never had a R with this person, I never spoke to them again after I told H. I just took the attention bait and it was so stupid. I have regretted it every single day since not only because of how badly it hurt my H and extended family but because I lowered my standards and betrayed my own sense of morals and ethics. I compromised myself. But I cannot change it....I can't ever forgive myself simply due to the recurring upheaval it's caused in my marriage and knowing this action is all my fault. No matter what was going on, I was so wrong to do what I did. If I'd have known he was going to care so much, it could have changed everything. But that was just another part of the despair at the time, I didn't believe he cared, just like I don't believe he cares right now. He's so good at convincing me that I'm just not that important.
M: 43, H: 44 Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs S17, D15, D8, S6 Still living in MH
Helena, this is a sad lonely situation for you. You sound really sorry for your mistake. It's not the end-of-the-world. The first time my husband cheated and he was sorry I was ready to forgive him and keep going. It was different though because even then he didn't want to say he loves me, sleep in the same bed again, spend time together, or normalize our life, so he obviously wasn't ready to re-commit. In your case you stopped and you didn't really do anything too terrible. It seems your husband has a chip on his shoulder and nothing you do can make a difference. I'm not sure about the wedding ring. I think that's a personal choice, but perhaps you'll want to wear it so no one can say you're out looking for a date or whatever. If anything though it's your husband who needs to look at himself and control his drinking and his way of talking to you! If you have other options you could end this marriage right now and try to rebuild your life. Otherwise you can detach and focus on your kids and just let time pass. You can try to learn how to stand up for yourself more in the meantime. It's hard because you and your husband have communicated this way for so long that this is what's normal for you, but time is already passing and you have the right to be treated well and forgiven. I wish there was a more straightforward, easy path to get through this!
In my husband's eyes, there was not just one mistake. He refers to multiple betrayals and the company party was definitely hurtful to him even though I didn't mean it. You can't spend 1.5-2 hours talking to another guy, especially when you have an OM situation in your past. I did not realize how much time had passed or that H wasn't mingling around me...it was like the perfect storm due to having too much to drink mixed with a huge buyout happening within the company that left a lot to talk about, especially if you're drunk and probably repeating yourself 20 times (eyeroll). So, from H's perspective, he's given me plenty of chances and I've betrayed him too many times. I don't agree with him at all and I KNOW what's in my heart and I know there was never any ill intentions on my part with these other situations, it just isn't what he says it was. The OM situation, I take the fullest responsibility for that, it was a betrayal and I definitely broke the trust in our marriage and I know there are long term consequences and things that may never be the same after that. But at the end of the day, it's H's right to feel how he feels and it's his perspective that matters because he is the one who was hurt by all of these supposed betrayals. The problem is I can't change any of it. I can only change my behavior going forward and I would gladly do that...there is no conversation or guy that I need to talk to that I would risk hurting my H over. I learned so much going through the OM situation and I knew I would never do something like that again ever. So to be back in this place in our M is sooooo devastating. One of the other betrayals that he says occurred is that one of the conditions to moving on after OM was that I would never go to a bar without him again. We went to San Diego to visit my sister and we went to dinner at a Mexican restaurant with her and her husband and another couple they are very good friends with. The kids got cranky and needed to go and I asked my H if he minded if I stayed and had another margarita..it was still daylight out and we were outside and we were the only ones there....and he told me that yes he minded and that I was breaking the agreement we made. I completely disagreed that staying at the restaurant to have another margarita with my sister who I only get to see once a year was breaking my promise to never go out to a bar without him. He tells me he can't trust me because I only hold agreements when it's convenient for me and that a restaurant can absolutely be considered a bar. I can disagree all day long, but it doesn't matter. His opinion is the only one that counts if I want a happy marriage.
M: 43, H: 44 Married 18 yrs, Together 26 yrs S17, D15, D8, S6 Still living in MH
Thanks for the welcome Steve. I tend to agree that a lot of times people say things they don’t mean. My husband though, he’s not like most people. He’s got a very unique personality and when he says things, he doesn’t usually change his mind. I don’t even know how we worked through the OM situation, he never forgave me that much I know. I guess he just decided to move past it. It was a MISERABLE 4 years and I don’t know how I survived it...I feel like I have PTSD or something and the thought of going back to that life is so terrifying. one thing that shouts out to me here, is clarity on the lack of forgiveness. Historically, Your h is not forgiving. And it makes you understandably miserable.
It's not about WHY or how you got there, it's about the reality that he is not forgiving and since we know you will make mistakes again, I worry you will always have this issue.
I can’t say much to him about my feelings or he says I’m justifying (even though I’m sooo careful not to word anything that makes it sound that way), that I’m trying to play the victim, etc.
I know he’s hurt and talking from an emotional place but it’s not like this happened yesterday. If, after 4 years, he’s still saying he’ll never trust me again, at what point do I believe him? so, he said he could not forgive you and for 4 years he has not forgiven you and indeed, he tends to punish you? For four years...
I usually believe staying in marriages even those that aren't great, FOR the kids, is worthy of strongly considering.
I also believe that there are times you leave the dysfunctional marriage FOR the kids.
Times like when your marriage is a model of resentment, grudge holding, no expression of love, no emotional intimacy, and probably not a lot of what you want your kids to learn.re
Plus it sounds like your needs are not being met by a long shot, and for some time.
I definitely do not want a divorce. But I also know I can’t live like we’ve been living. these^^^ sentences are incompatible. You prefer not getting divorced, and I GET THAT.
But if you cannot live as you have been living for FOUR years and which he gives NO indication of changing at all,
IN FACT he's telling you this is as good as it gets,
so then, which statement is the more realistic one?
If you are being accurate, then your m is not compatible with your well being.
(And YOU get to MATTER.) I'm not here to discuss How you behaved or how neglectful and cold he was when you expressed your needs and how he chose not to meet them. That's water under the bridge.
but no marriage survives for long, without a bucket load of forgiveness.
Your h has a history of NOT forgiving and for punishing and promises more of the same for you forever.
I know you are torn, but I don't think this is complicated. It's just super hard.
As for the kids, I daresay your children know more than you realize. We focus on staying together for them but I'm here to tell you that staying in a marriage like the one you describe, has it's own costs.
I’m so unbelievably torn....and this sort of is a 180 for me by the way. I’m usually the pursuer bc I hate it when he’s mad at me. There has just been a series of events over the last year and a half where he made choices to not be there for me emotionally bc he says I can’t have an ideal husband and a fairy tale marriage after what I’ve done.
pure punishment. ^^^ I highly doubt you are requesting an "ideal h" or "fairy tale m". In fact, his twisting of your requests and blame shifting is a disturbing pattern that shows no sign of improving.
Sounds like he's giving himself permission to abuse you.
This has all just had an immense impact on my outlook and I just can’t help but wonder if anything will ever be enough. When we went through this before, I served him with divorce papers at one point and honestly that may have been the only reason he eventually stopped the things he was doing. if there is a chance of saving this m, and IF it's worth saving, then you know what worked in the past.
Stop trying to please a bitter man. You really did not break him and you really cannot fix him.
I don’t know and he would never admit it if that was truly the case.
Don't ask him b/c that's a tip off and if anything, it's a challenge to him NOT to admit it.
I am pro marriage but not at all costs. Life is short. AND I don't mean to project my situation onto yours. Yet we come here advising based on our experiences.
If I knew when round one of my DBing happened what I know now (and I thought we had gotten past it all, )
I'd have cut him loose long ago. My h took my devotion and commitment and my forgiving him for so very much, and he discarded it. There was no gratitude.
In your case, you have given things a real shot, for a long time. You made mistakes but you learned from them. You are not cruel or dishonest. Or disloyal.
You're a better woman for all of this. Be the sane, compassionate parent for your children.
The woman of grace and dignity who is not concerned with being "right" as much as living a life of grace and dignity - AND in the face of abuse, be a woman of strength and self respect.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
if i were you, i would cut him loose... you don't deserve the treatment you are getting... and a lifetime of that? no way... you can move on and take the time you need to create a new, beautiful life for yourself... you only get one life... your moving on may wake him up to how unreasonable he is being... maybe it would be enough for him to make the changes he needs... but you cannot move on for that reason, because he may not respond that way... you have to be fine with or without him... and i think you will be fine if you continue to do work on yourself...
your H sounds miserable, and he seems to want to stay that way... and he wants you to be miserable with him... that is not good for you, and that is certainly not good for your kids...
