Thanks for that insight, V. That makes sense to me and I will work on not doing that.
So, tonight was a bit of a disaster, and I feel bad about it. I asked D if she wanted to call her mom tonight and she said yes. So right before bed, I called and handed her the phone and she changed her mind, saying she didn't want to talk. XW answers the phone right then, and I tell D just to tell mommy she loves her and to say goodnight and D did just that. XW did NOT take that well. She got angry and sarcastic, telling D she hadn't talked to her that day (she did in the morning, D was happy to talk then) and she HAD to talk to her. I tried to explain she wasn't in the mood to talk and wanted to go to bed, but XW was not having it.
I told D I'd be back in five minutes and left the room. She followed me and left the phone on her bed. XW was pretty upset. She sent me a text, "What is she doing???!!!!" D basically shut down, didn't want to talk, and I tried and failed to get XW to see that. I tried to be encouraging, D wasn't having it. She kept trying to get off the phone and her mom simply wouldn't let her. I admit I was completely at a loss here, I should have just hung the damn phone up but didn't. I eventually got D to say goodnight and I love you to XW. She was enthusiastic and happy, and XW said "well, you really do sound tired" and hung up on her. D called her back and I think got sent to voicemail. She was pretty upset about it.
So I screwed up. I said I wasn't going to make D talk to XW, and I did just that tonight. And the results were shitty.
And then, just to add some icing on the cake, I get this text: "Let me guess! You got her a new toy!? Bc that seems to be the only time she ignores me that and you letting her play with toys right before bed. You know you really ain't very good at this coparenting thing. You don't even answer text when it's about her. You sure don't care if she talks to me or when she talks to me. And you tell her to say goodbye as soon as she calls me... what did you think she was gonna think!?"
I wanted to respond, but I'm just not going to do it anymore. There's nothing I can say that's ever going to get through.
So... thread number six. I admit I'm feeling low about that. I feel like I should move to the big D forum. I want to reply to some people's posts and then I look at this gigantic mess I'm in the middle of and really think that I'm the last guy on earth that needs to be giving ANYONE any kind of advice.
Life is still in some kind of limbo, XW is alienating my D and seems to think she's in the right to do so, and that I'm some kind of monster, and a year into this and I'm more stressed than I've ever been in my life. Here's hoping things improve going forward.
Water off a duck's back East. You are way to accommodating to your W. At some point you will just have to make a decision and cut the bull$hit from your W. She's sending you on so many guilt trips, you must have accumulated about a million of free miles. Let go of this calling W and making your D go through this (and yourself) each and every time. I am willing to bet that it does not make you feel better when she calls you. You are still raw from all of this and yes, you are still in the early days of it all.
Perhaps it would be better to have your time with your D when she's with you and your W's time with your D when she's with your W.
I hate calling my Ex, for any reason. So I do not call her if I don't have to. Ever! And we do get along pretty well and coparent well also. When I have my kids, I do not call my Ex at all, unless something has been forgotten for school or something.
When I was at about your timeline, I do remember it being a very dark time for me. The Ex was baiting me all the time and it took all of my strength to start hanging up on her when the got hissy and not responding to her texts if it did not pertain to the kids or finances. It kinda pissed her off, but in the long run it calmed the whole situation down, esp. giving me the much needed peace. If you come to think about it, there is really nothing to be gained from engaging your W, I am pretty sure you are left feeling like a turd after every interaction.
This co-parenting thing can be tough but here’s the thing I have two S’s 8 and 10, both talk to my WW or I every day without fail via FaceTime but we initiate the communication. I have no communication unless F2F with WW but approach both my boys directly cutting out the need to go through WW. It’s either she calls them or I call them no in-between. Can this be replicated and agreed between both your WW and yourself..?
I understand to a degree the alienation towards your D from WW, initially I felt the same and put it down to unwanted interaction with WW and MYSELF! Once I started to move away from being dependent and just looked at my kids and me the interaction between the boys and their mum got progressively better.
I agree with Vapo that interactions with WW can be “interesting” at times so why bother! I feel this ^^^^ allows me to get off the ride and is working quite well although I have twice fallen for the trap she set and have got involved in R conversations which have NEVER ended in my favor. < Avoid like the plague…
A talk up-front outlining the conditions, timings and the like then adhere to it to the letter never deviate, what she does is hers to own.
Also sit you’re D down and outline the general timings but again if she really wants to talk to WW then of course you must allow it but I suppose my kids doing this every day have lessened the need for a surprise call…
Put the politicians cap on find the right balance and pass this by your WW, get it agreed and continue to move forwards.
Mark.
DR'ing started March 2017
Don't blow the last bridge up from fantasy island, act "as if".
Yes, you incredibly too accommodating. You have that Mr. Nice Guy thing in total full force and you have to fix everything. Your relationship began on rescuing her, being the superhero, coming in and taking care of her and her newborn daughter..... Well, thank God you rescued your daughter:).
Posters have asked what the status of the custody thing is. Where are you at, you haven't quite answered. That seriously needs to be taken care of.
And please please please stop the phone call thing. It's not for the benefit of your D. It's only hurting her. I have been doing this coparenting, divorced parenting thing for her whole life and never ever did that. We were recommended AGAINST that. Unless she asked, when she was old enough too, his time was his, and my time was mine. And she is quite a well adjusted 10 year old. She has her own phone now and some weekends she calls me non-stop and others and she doesn't call at all. Maybe a text here and there. But I rarely initiate unless I need to.
I think you fear her reaction if you do that. But in the sense that she will make YOU feel bad. Your going to have to find a way to get over that. She is not playing with a full deck, has been alienating and pretty much a bad parent. Because you don't comply with her and you find your b@lls, doesn't make you a bad guy if she doesn't like it.
Every move you make, simply consider your daughter and no one else. No matter what her reaction is on that, if she calls you a bad dad or whatever, you know you are not and are doing what is in the best interest of child. Your ex snaps when it isn't in her best interest of herself. You know that. She only cares about herself.
Mark,
Those scheduled calls is ALOT for young kids to adhere to. Kids want to be kids and they should get to be. Scheduling a call is like scheduling a work meeting, and we don't even like those as adults, what kids like that?
It should be based on the child's wants, not on the parents. And the child may not want to call the other parent and there is nothing wrong with that. Maybe it stinks for the parent, but we take bullets for our kids. I think this is one of those bullets.
Vapo, thanks for the advice, as always. D didn't want to call her mom again this morning. I asked if you wanted to send a voice text on imessage and she said yes. She was happy and excited. We're driving to school and XW calls back. D doesn't want to talk, she's just staying silent. XW is asking why she won't talk, and I can hear the irritation in her voice. I try to gently explain that she just doesn't want to talk to this morning, and XW nastily says, "What toy is she playing with? Because I know that's why she won't talk" I explain that there is no toy, and D is just sitting quietly in her car seat, and that we do not need to have conversations like this in front of her. "Whatever" I ask D to tell mommy she loves her and goodbye, she does, and XW starts trying to talk to her again. D is silent. I tell XW we're going to go, and she hangs up.
D tells me I should just hang up next time, and asked me if I didn't understand what she was saying. So, yeah, my seven year old is chastising me for not ending the interaction, and she's absolutely right about it.
I get a text, "I don't know what you've said or done but she's never acted like that toward me. I do not appreciate what it is you've said to her or done to her. You can sit there and say you haven't done anything but the truth will be told one day!" After what happened on Friday, I'm not ever responding to one of these texts again.
Mark, no worries about being baited into R conversations. Ever. Not what I want, not ever going there. I've been put through hell over the last year, and today, outside of the stress that XW induces, I really enjoy my life, and have no desire to change anything about it, except having more time with both D and GF in the future. If D EVER wants to call her mom, I just hand her the phone. Time of day or night doesn't matter. XW and I had agreed to a general schedule for calls, but that isn't working for D at this point.
[i]"XW - Im finding that the twice daily calls between D and either of us are adding a lot of extra stress on both D and me. Going forward, while she is with me, I will make it clear that she can call you whenever she would like. She is old enough to talk without me, so I will give her the phone and freedom to speak to you at will. Your discussions are your business, so I will not answer texts relating to the calls or how D behaves while talking to you. I hope that you offer the same opportunities to her while she is with you.
Thank you - East"
As far as I understand, there is nothing written or agreed upon and this constant communication is a courtesy rather than a specific requirement. I still dont see why either of you needs to talk to a 6 year old twice a day - thats like a half hour each day getting ready to use the phone and calling to talk to the other parent. My 6 year old can hardly remember what she ate for lunch. This just feels like a power struggle between you and XW - not what is in the best interest for D.
Again water off duck's back. If you haven't already, I'd tell your W only once in a calm voice that you do not intend to have these conversations any more. If your D wants to call her, fine, if not, no call.
And again I do think it would be best if you discontinue this calling routine.
[i]"XW - Im finding that the twice daily calls between D and either of us are adding a lot of extra stress on both D and me. Going forward, while she is with me, I will make it clear that she can call you whenever she would like. She is old enough to talk without me, so I will give her the phone and freedom to speak to you at will. Your discussions are your business, so I will not answer texts relating to the calls or how D behaves while talking to you. I hope that you offer the same opportunities to her while she is with you.
Thank you - East"
As far as I understand, there is nothing written or agreed upon and this constant communication is a courtesy rather than a specific requirement. I still dont see why either of you needs to talk to a 6 year old twice a day - thats like a half hour each day getting ready to use the phone and calling to talk to the other parent. My 6 year old can hardly remember what she ate for lunch. This just feels like a power struggle between you and XW - not what is in the best interest for D.
Thanks ginger and amoafwl. I'm trying really hard to do the right thing for D, but we've been doing it for a year so it's pretty entrenched. Ginger is right in that I'm trying so damn hard to do the right thing at all costs.
There's also this: Tennessee law includes "The right to unimpeded telephone conversations with the child at least twice a week at reasonable times and for reasonable durations" so I guess I need some legal advice here.
