WW Part 2 Chapter 2

[sandi2]

I don't know that I can ever love W the way I used to or if I even want to love her that way again.

That's b/c she has hurt you so badly. It is extremely unfair for a WW to nonchantley tell her H that he'll just have to trust her, when she has broken that trust in the cruelest manner. I firmly believe the WW should earn the H's trust after she has betrayed him.

W also says I'm rigid, judgmental and act holier than thou.

Well, I felt the same way toward my H, mainly b/c he said he'd done nothing wrong. He had not had an A, but in my viewpoint, he'd done plenty wrong. So anyway, I suspect that's not uncommon amongst WW's.

There are certain values and morals I hold dear to my heart that I won't waiver on. I think that makes me a strong person at my core.

Exactly, and that is the very thing I try to get newcomers to think about when we are discussing the subject of boundaries.

Seems that some of those may be conflicting with WW and maybe that's the "holier than thou" refrain from her.

Sure!


Here's the thing ^^^^^^^^^ I feel a lot of newcomers may fail to grasp. When many newcomer H's arrive here, they are so consumed with finding the "it" that will change the feelings of his WW......hoping she won't D him. Truth is........if that is his total focus, he will probably fail. If nothing else, she'll get mad that he waited until she was done before he made the changes. . I don't know that a H can please his WW enough to change her mind........or, even if he should try, considering that she is wayward. Now let me explain what I mean by that statement. I am into my 11th year on the board, and I have not seen many positive results from H's killing themselves trying to appease their WW. However, most of the positive results I have seen, comes by the H staying true to his own values, standards, belief system, and integrity. How can a man set boundaries when he doesn't have a clue about his own core values? How can a man command respect from others, if he doesn't respect himself?

IMHO, the H needs to dig deep and mentally evaluate his MR, to determine the true source of the issues they currently have. He needs to take an inventory of himself and be painfully honest in how he has measured up as a man.......then as a husband. If he doesn't have some type of guidelines, then how will he determine it? If he really has no clue where the problems lie, then sure, he needs to consider the complaints made by his W. I'm just saying that if she is showing wayward behavior, then he needs to focus on how to deal with her disrespect rather than doing cartwheels to please. Does that make sense or does it sound as if I'm talking in circles?

[Tread]

Sandi,

That makes perfect sense to me. But the disrespect is the A. And if your willing to forgive, then it's good. But what if the boundary is nonstop cheating? It seems as long as the WW is cheating with no divorce in sight from her H, then she still won't view him as a man worth respecting. In my sitch, I had W leave. But she is still doing her thing most likely, while I try to detach. Not trying to mind read, but one can assume that she is that worried about me doing anything else about the continued behavior.

[AnotherStander]

Amen to what Sandi said. We have seen so many LBHs here try to do everything to appease the WW and all it does is make things worse. It's like the WW uses them as a doormat, so in response they walk around constantly throwing themselves onto the ground in front of the WW begging them to wipe their feet on them over and over again. So the WW loses what little respect may have been left and is more than happy to wipe all the dog poo off her feet and onto the LBH. And still he asks for more! The recons don't happen until the LBH gets fed up and says "enough, I'm no one's door mat" and goes about the business of getting a life. It doesn't always bring the WW back but more often than not, by the time the LBH gets to that point he's not even sure he wants her back anymore.

[Raysd6]

Thanks again for stopping by Sandi!

W also says I'm rigid, judgmental and act holier than thou.

Well, I felt the same way toward my H, mainly b/c he said he'd done nothing wrong.

I've told W many times that I accept my 50% contribution to the breakdown of the MR

Here's the thing ^^^^^^^^^ I feel a lot of newcomers may fail to grasp. When many newcomer H's arrive here, they are so consumed with finding the "it" that will change the feelings of his WW......hoping she won't D him. Truth is........if that is his total focus, he will probably fail. If nothing else, she'll get mad that he waited until she was done before he made the changes.

Yes, WW said in MC "you only ever change when there is a crisis in our MR"

IMHO, the H needs to dig deep and mentally evaluate his MR, to determine the true source of the issues they currently have. He needs to take an inventory of himself and be painfully honest in how he has measured up as a man.......then as a husband.

Yes, that is key! LBH's need to "man up" first then work on being a good husband. Sandi, you've said many times that respect has to come first then love will follow.

I'm just saying that if she is showing wayward behavior, then he needs to focus on how to deal with her disrespect rather than doing cartwheels to please. Does that make sense or does it sound as if I'm talking in circles?

Makes perfect sense as always Sandi!

[Raysd6]

The recons don't happen until the LBH gets fed up and says "enough, I'm no one's door mat" and goes about the business of getting a life. It doesn't always bring the WW back but more often than not, by the time the LBH gets to that point he's not even sure he wants her back anymore.

AS, I may be either approaching or at that point. As I said the other day, I'm not sure that I can love W the way I used to.

But the other side of the coin is do either one of us really want the old MR back?

[sandi2]

That makes perfect sense to me. But the disrespect is the A.

There are many manifestations of disrespect. An affair seems to be in a category set apart from of all others. It is the act of betrayal from the one who vowed to love and be faithful to you....no matter what trials the M faced. We can learn to cope with disappointments, broken promises, unmet expectations, etc. However, infidelity (physical or emotional) is betrayal of love. The priceless bond of trust has been broken. Some may be able to heal, and others may not.

And if your willing to forgive, then it's good. what if the boundary is nonstop cheating? It seems as long as the WW is cheating with no divorce in sight from her H, then she still won't view him as a man worth respecting.

Forgiveness and boundaries are two separate subjects. They are two separate acts.

Forgiveness cannot be earned. It is strictly an act of grace by the offended person. Forgiveness does not condone the affair or betrayal. It does not give permission to repeat the offensive act. Forgiveness cannot be used to guilt the other person into staying faithful in the future.

Boundaries have nothing to do with forgiveness. I'm not sure what you mean by "nonstop cheating". I will go out on a limb and guess you mean that upon learning of your WW's affair\cheating, you set a boundary of no more cheating. Therefore, if she ignores the boundary and cheats.......what then? The next move is up to the H. It's his boundary that has been disrespected, so what will he do?

In my sitch, I had W leave.

Okay, so now you are physically separated from the one who would not respect your boundary of no more cheating.

But she is still doing her thing most likely, while I try to detach. Not trying to mind read, but one can assume that she is that worried about me doing anything else about the continued behavior.

Once you have told her to leave the marital home, there is little else you can do about her personal life. You had her leave b\c she disrespected your boundary of no more cheating. Do I have that correct? The only option you currently have left, is divorce. Otherwise, what she does in her life is her business (as long as the children are not endangered).

Here's the part about boundaries many people miss. Boundaries are not to be used as a tool to control the other person. Boundaries are not ultimatums. What you choose to do in response to the other person refusing to honor your boundary is up to you. You cannot make the other person do what you want. You only control yourself. What will you do to protect your feelings?

Tread, I have seen newcomer H's jump on the boundary wagon before they fully understood how it works. They would walk around their house, crowing like a rooster about their boundary. They seem to think that by simply stating something was their boundary.....it would be honored by the WW. Not so. He had better have a backup plan, b\c in most cases.....she will not honor it. In your situation, you had her leave.

Not trying to mind read, but one can assume that she is that worried about me doing anything else about the continued behavior.

There is NOTHING you can do to stop her from cheating! Get that through your head. It is out of your control. If you don't want to be legally M to her then get a D. If you aren't ready to D.... then don't. But you cannot make her live the way you want her to live. Understand? Boundaries are about protecting yourself........not controlling the other person.

[CW2017]

I would personally be happy enough to find a resolution despite knowing my M will never ever be the same again. My only concern in looking forward is what if the respect was never there in the first place (my W has always been high maintenance) and she has in fact been a serial offender all along (don't suppose I'll never get to the bottom of that one). That would certainly not bode well for the future....

[sandi2]

My only concern in looking forward is what if the respect was never there in the first place

Maybe not, but she can learn to respect you. Did you detect disrespect in the beginning of the M?

(my W has always been high maintenance)

Well you lost me there. What does high maintenance have to do with respect or lack of it?

and she has in fact been a serial offender all along

I have known the type. It would take a lot of firm, consistent determination from you......and then there's no guarantee. If she is a spoiled bratt, you have my sympathy.

[sandi2]

Still around?

[Raysd6]

Still around?

Yeah...been out of town for work the last week and a half so no time to update.

WW has decided to pursue D so that she can get "that DAMN piece of paper" out of her life...her words not mine. I'll caveat that with it was late at night and she had been drinking.

Having said that, Monday had the following exchange:
WW: Mediation appointment 29th at 7:00pm
Me: I have plans
WW: What plans
Me: Meetup
WW: I think this is more important
Me: Tuesday or Thursday works best for me

Later that evening she was lonely, depressed and had been drinking.

WW:I hate our neighborhood
Me: Why?
WW: Uncaring people.
Me: You sound pretty upset
WW: I am
Me: What did they do?
WW: They are selfish. They only care about themselves

I just continued to validate her feelings. After I went to sleep she texted:

WW: Wish you were here to play a game
Me: A game would’ve been fun

I then trolled WW a bit:

Me: So do you like shuffleboard? Have you ever played it? (Knowing full well we both enjoy shuffleboard)
Me: Just seeing if we have anything in common or any common interests
WW: Games are one

WW: I was really lonely and depressed last night
Me: Exactly how will divorce help with loneliness and depression?
WW: I just had a bad night
Me: OK… I'm sure those will become less frequent after divorce
WW: I need to learn to deal with it
Me: It is better to face loneliness and depression alone

Again, me pointing out the obvious or trolling

Working on myself...strangely I'm at peace with WW's decision. I don't like it but I don't know if I could ever love her the way I used to. Nor do I think I could ever fully trust her again.

I'm striving to be the man that I want to be and that's the important thing right now.