Right, so why should I care about being a rock for WW if she's already gone?
Maybe Im misunderstanding your thoughts.
I believe that your goal should be to be a source of stability, consistency and strength. If by rock you mean a shoulder to cry on or an errand boy to make sure all of her chores are done, then no, I dont think thats necessarily where you should be.
I believe that your goal should be to be a source of stability, consistency and strength. If by rock you mean a shoulder to cry on or an errand boy to make sure all of her chores are done, then no, I don't think thats necessarily where you should be.
Right, so why should I care about being a rock for WW if she's already gone?
She is gone now but that could change later. I personally am not attempting to be a rock for my WW but more for my family in general. I am remaining calm, deliberate and focusing on myself. My W is on her journey and I don't think it is time to make an emotional decision until I have clarity on the situation. I can only get that clarity when I am strong and not acting out of emotions.
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Isn't the biggest part of DB'ng working on yourself and not worrying about the WS?
Yes
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So that tells me that I really only need to be reliable for my DD's...
If your DD's had a vote what would be their vote? Family together or family broken up? You are standing for your family and letting your W take her journey while subsequently working on yourself.
Hi Ray. Wow, you must be exhausted. When I read your threads, I get the impression you are reading a lot of various sources and trying to get as much help as possible. That can be good....and it can also cause a bit of inconsistency in your actions. As with a lot of newcomers, you appear to be wanting something that has a lot of power behind the punch...so to speak. Do you have a sense of time running out, and surely there is some way to break through to her in time to save the M? Well, that's normal.
I want to encourage you to be more consistent when interacting with your W, or else, you will appear to be the crazy one. Yes, reading self help books can aide our self improvement goals, but it doesn't necessarily mean something you read in a book last night about some other situation is going to work to change your WW's viewpoint today. Does that make sense? It might cause you to look as if you are bouncing all over the place, b\c you are grabbing & snatching bits from several sources and trying it out on her.
You have received excellent advice, and I hope you can sort of level out emotionally where you aren't feeling pressured to spring some new idea you gathered from another book, forum, etc. I don't want to sound as if I'm knocking whatever you've read, but from what I have observed, it tends to have a washing machine over-load effect on newcomers. They get so confused they don't know what to believe....and start shutting down. For now, maybe you should stick to DB.
((Hugs))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I've always been fascinated with psychology so the above is not so much specific to my sitch but my general curiosity about the human mind.
That combined with an Engineering mind adds to my constant analysis of human interactions.
If you figure out the human mind then you'll have a best-seller on your hands
Originally Posted By: Raysd6
Me: I feel it was irresponsible of you to have been drinking all day to the point where you couldn't drive home tonight to be with your daughters WW: I'm just tired...heading home now WW: There you go judging me WW: This is why we will not be together WW: All I wanted was your support and you turn this back on me
Predictable response, right? So why go there. Here's the deal though- she did the responsible thing. The irresponsible thing would have been to drive drunk.
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So throughout the week WW was firm on starting the D process. I told her "do what you feel you need to do, just let me know where I need to be and what time". I did pursue and ask her if she's sure this is what she wants to do. I also let her know that I won't stand in her way but I will only do what is asked of me no more, no less e.g. I will not expedite the divorce process.
That sounds good.
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In MC later that day, WW went from "I don't know if we can reconcile" in the beginning to "If we divorce..." towards the end.
I wouldn't read anything into that. WAS's like to make it sound like they're leaving the door open to "lessen the blow" to the LBS.
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WW also noticed my changes(GAL activities) and said that in the past my changes have been temporary and that I only improve myself when we separate.
That's script. Just keep doing it for you and don't expect any appreciation from her for it.
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WW: Divorce is not my first choice Me: Ok
Later that day:
WW: I canceled tomorrow (the Mediation appointment) Me: Ok
Good responses.
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WW: I wish we had the love Jack and Jill have Me: I feel we can have that same love
Fail. LOL! She was temperature checking you, and you let her know you are still happily hanging on as Plan B. Just a brief validation like "I understand" would be better.
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Before I went to sleep I sent a pursuing text:
Me: "The art of love is...largely the art of persistence" WW: I don’t know what the right thing to do is
Well you're right, it's pursuing. Pursuit is pressure and she doesn't want pressure. Believe me, nothing you do or say right now is going to help turn her around, but you can do and say a LOT that will hurt. Try to remember that.
Do you have a sense of time running out, and surely there is some way to break through to her in time to save the M? Well, that's normal.
No...in it for the long haul for lack of a better term
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I want to encourage you to be more consistent when interacting with your W, or else, you will appear to be the crazy one.
Yes, I can sense my inconsistency.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Yes, reading self help books can aide our self improvement goals, but it doesn't necessarily mean something you read in a book last night about some other situation is going to work to change your WW's viewpoint today. Does that make senseIt might cause you to look as if you are bouncing all over the place, b\c you are grabbing & snatching bits from several sources and trying it out on her.
Makes perfect sense. I think I'm finally realizing that working on me is most important and to stop worrying about the perfect thing to say in a given situation.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
For now, maybe you should stick to DB.
Yes, back to my 180's and correcting the behaviors that W has pointed out.
Yesterday I had to stop by the house to assemble something and W had offered family dinner...the first time that she has offered without me asking first. I finally stopped asking because she always declined the offer. Exchanged pleasantries and W said "you're distant" I don't know how to respond to that so I just said "I'm not trying to be". One thing that W complained about was that I hover over her which was true. So she started watching TV while I changed and did a couple things around the house. She fell asleep so I paused the TV and dimmed the lights. I then went outside on the patio to study for a certification, again, trying not to hover. I finished studying and went inside to take a break and W was awake in the kitchen.
W: What's wrong? You're acting strange Me: Nothing...I was studying for my test (again, trying not to hover) W: I'll be back(she was on her way out to the store)
She returned from the store and I helped in the kitchen whilst she cooked dinner. The rest of the evening was actually nice we sat outside on the patio in front of the fire pit and talked about various things. No MR talk and no pursuing/pressure from me.
Exchanged pleasantries and W said "you're distant" I don't know how to respond to that so I just said "I'm not trying to be".
Example of various responses: "Just trying not to Hoover". "Trying to give you space". "Really? Hadn't noticed". "Oh?" (Say nothing and just shake your head)
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W: What's wrong? You're acting strange Me: Nothing...I was studying for my test (again, trying not to hover) W: I'll be back(she was on her way out to the store)
You did fine. Actually, whenever the WW starts asking what's wrong or accusing you of acting distant, cold, strange, etc..........she is (1) trying to pull you into a relationship talk, or verbal attack; Or (2) she has, or is planning to contact OM and is watching you very closely. That could have been her reason for a quick trip to the store......but not necessarily.
Refresh my memory, please........does your W hold down a full time job?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The list of complaints your WW has made about you is fine to use as a way of knowing some areas you may need to improve. For example, if she complained about your personal appearance (weight, clothes, hair, etc.), then make goals to correct it. If she has complained about a flaw in your personality or social skills, then practice....practice....practice everywhere you go when interacting with people. If she has complained about you not spending enough time with your kids (before she started all the wayward business), then improve your relationship with your children. If you have anger issues, drink too much, use bad language, or whatever.....then work to correct it. Working on yourself to become a better man and father can begin immediately.
Many newcomers who have a wayward W, become very confused and frustrated when they work toward correcting the complaints in the MR. I'm going to give you my personal view point. Her complaints often derive from many years of dissappointments, unmet expectations, resentment, etc. Hopefully, it's not too late for the marriage.........however, the current timing may require some delay in a few things you'd like to dive into right now. The painful truth about your W is that she is not interested in having you as her H at the present time, and it is useless trying to persuade her as long as another man is in her head.
Let's say for just an example that one of her complaints was the lack of intimacy in the MR. So, you want to start being a lot more intimate, and hopefully, she'll be pleased and both of you will be happy with the results. But, the more you try to approach her in an intimate way......the colder her response. When there's a laundry list of complaints from a WW, she may say you don't help with work around the house. So, you start doing everything to prove how much you want ro save the M. However, the W does less and less and focuses on her selfish desires more and more. Another common complaint is telling the H he wasn't at home enough. So, you resist GAL b/c now you think you need to be home and show her your changes......but she goes off into another room or finds excuses to leave you sitting with the kids while she's out playing. You are wondering, "What's the problem? I thought this is what you wanted".
The problem is that her heart is closed to you and has opened to another man. She is giving you old reasons that made her dissatisfied with the MR. If you put a lot of time & energy in being a better husband....according to her complaint list.....your applications may be in vain. However, approaching it as a better man, will help you see through her b.s. and how you really need to handle things on your end. When she ends the waywardness, then you can apply what you learn about being a better husband.
Don't become a slave to her complaint list. One clue that you have, is when that's your main focus and you are wanting to show her your changes. But when you are focused on becoming a better man, then you don't "need" to show her how hard you are trying to keep her. And, basically, that's what a H is doing when he kills himself trying to be "the perfect husband" according to his WW.
Make your own list......called goals.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Exchanged pleasantries and W said "you're distant" I don't know how to respond to that so I just said "I'm not trying to be"
Example of various responses: . . "Really? Hadn't noticed".
That is brilliant Sandi!
Originally Posted By: sandi2
You did fine. Actually, whenever the WW starts asking what's wrong or accusing you of acting distant, cold, strange, etc..........she is (1) trying to pull you into a relationship talk, or verbal attack; Or (2) she has, or is planning to contact OM and is watching you very closely. That could have been her reason for a quick trip to the store......but not necessarily.
No, she came back with groceries for dinner in the normal amount of time it would take to purchase said groceries.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Refresh my memory, please........does your W hold down a full time job
The list of complaints your WW has made about you is fine to use as a way of knowing some areas you may need to improve. For example...If she has complained about a flaw in your personality or social skills, then practice....practice....practice everywhere you go when interacting with people.
WW said I was socially awkward so I've been much more outgoing and personable especially after reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
Originally Posted By: sandi2
The painful truth about your W is that she is not interested in having you as her H at the present time, and it is useless trying to persuade her as long as another man is in her head.
I don't know if there is an OM or if she's a WAW. Her behavior when we're together tells me that she is more of a WAW.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
However, approaching it as a better man, will help you see through her b.s. and how you really need to handle things on your end. When she ends the waywardness, then you can apply what you learn about being a better husband.
But when you are focused on becoming a better man, then you don't "need" to show her how hard you are trying to keep her.
Sandi, That is what is finally starting to take hold in my head and attitude. I'm slowly realizing that it doesn't matter if she's a WW, WAW, or MLC, bottom line is I need to become the man I need to be for ME. If W wants to tag along on my journey then so be it.
I don't know that I can ever love W the way I used to or if I even want to love her that way again. Tears stream down my face as I type this because I made a vow in front of God and family to Love and cherish her until death us do part.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Make your own list......called goals.
Set a goal to do a 5K run and I ran one today and hit my time goal!!!
Other goals:
Information Systems Security certification Skydiving Learn to ride a motorcycle 10K run Half Marathon Learn Guitar(currently enrolled in a weekly guitar class) Attend church regularly
Here are some of my N.U.T.S Non-negotiable, Unalterable Terms: I am faithful to my wife I exercise regularly I attend church regularly I play guitar regularly I do what I feel is best for my family I live in accordance with my faith Patience over temper
W also says I'm rigid, judgmental and act holier than thou. There are certain values and morals I hold dear to my heart that I won't waiver on. I think that makes me a strong person at my core. Seems that some of those may be conflicting with WW and maybe that's the "holier than thou" refrain from her.
