thank you so much...you do make an awful lot of sense..
the hardest thing is the "laissez-faire" thing...let her figure out if she even wants to work on things...and if yes, that she will figure out what's needed...it goes against your instincts...
...you're right, it's still not clear that's what she wants.. ...i had her move out of the MBR and she has been sneaking into my bed in the middle of the night...I'm not really comfortable with that..should I tell her how I feel?
she wants to rely on my support for her problems at work...and I have always been a huge supporter of her..so it's hard for me to give her the cold shoulder but it seems necessary at this point.. correct?
...so far..in terms of GAL, I realize I may have been depressed for awhile but kind of thought acknowledging that would be an excuse...and have begun to exercise daily, first thing before doing anything (I remember Tony Robbins talking about "getting disturbed" and have your runners right next to your bed)..it turns out, that single action has made me feel immensely better...I see immediate results...
[quote=canseco]thank you so much...you do make an awful lot of sense..
the hardest thing is the "laissez-faire" thing...let her figure out if she even wants to work on things...and if yes, that she will figure out what's needed...it goes against your instincts... it is not truly laissez faire la la land, in that You are supposed to be doing something. You are working on you. What does that mean to you? Are you in IC yet?
I am not sure I've heard you mention a single NEW activity or club or group or hobby you are taking up. You must detach and imo, there's no way to detach without GAL. Have you read the DR book? It's a must and if you have not read it yet, can you explain what the hold up is? Not hammering you about it but asking you to ask yourself why it has not happened. I assume it hasn't b/c SOME of your questions indicate unfamiliarity with DB concepts, that's all.
It's not that long a book, btw. Very doable.
Don't scrutinize her words or behavior. Do not make her your focus. Have zero expectations that the interaction will lead to anything, then.
YOU are your focus. You are upbeat in front of the WAS, even if the interchange is 3 minutes...that's all YOU have anyhow, b/c you have to be on your way to the new interesting person(s) you're meeting up with and doing fun things with, in exciting new places...
This way you won't be posting here about how sad you were that the WAS "Didn't even ask me to join her watching a video/went running” or 'didn't want to come with me..."
* SO Let her soak in the new you. Meaning, Do NOT expect her to notice AND comment quickly, about a new behavior in you.
The "math" of it is this:
consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.
There are things about the new you that she will not have figured out yet or come to trust is real and lasting…
If there's an affair partner, that's also very distracting & will delay realizations on their end.
Like a ship headed for an iceberg, sometimes the "Get a Divorce NOW!" momentum is hard to redirect or stop.
Again, it takes TIME.
SO Make the most of the time. The KEY to Detachment is GAL. Without GAL, you are very likely to obsess yourself into depression or desperation, and that's not a good place to be. Indeed...
Again, we hammer GAL here b/c as I said, it works.
Please give yourself this week to call and join something or sign up for a class or coach or play on an adult team.
SOMETHING new to bring to your own table - for you. The inner changes can happen from external activities and then behaviors change more...outside in, versus inside out.
Too many people here want to "feel like it FIRST" and frankly, it's part of the way WAS's think too. They won't recommit until they "feel like it" but they won't DO what it takes to feel like it.
You can model this^^.
IF you can get her to Retrovaille, go. It's a marriage retreat designed for marriages in crisis, usually with one or both partners seriously considering divorce.
It will not hurt - positively not hurt your m, (unlike some MC's) and religion is not pushed on you, although the Catholic church created it.
Other than this, I would Not ask her to do anything FOR the M UNTIL
IF/WHEN she says she wants to "make it work/try/reconcile"
THEN you get out the To Do list for reconciling. Meanwhile you do you.
...you're right, it's still not clear that's what she wants.. Correct. So you need to become the guy she fell in love with, become a man only a fool would leave, AND prepare yourself for your w to be a fool.
...i had her move out of the MBR and she has been sneaking into my bed in the middle of the night...I'm not really comfortable with that..should I tell her how I feel?
No don't tell her how you feel. In this situation, you talking about your feelings esp after the fact is not appealing or strong. It'll come across as needy and weak. (Sorry).
You "had her move out of the MBR" means what?
as for her "sneaking into bed"...ask your DB coach about it. Being an a$$ is never productive, and rejecting her more now, is probably going to be more of the same old.
She believes (with some validity) that she was denied/rejected by you for years and that's the obstacle you have in motivating her to want a reconciliation.
OTOH you don't want her to cake eat.
So, what's your DB coach say? (I may be mistaken but I believe you said you hired one. They are well worth it, btw. Very specific in their advice but you can ask them to review your situation before the call so you don't spend the whole time catching them up. *IF You have to catch them up, start with the SSM part, and then go into the affair(s) - b/c that's a huge factor in your situation. )
Also to refresh my memory, you said you suspected your w was having an affair before this one, and she has now admitted that.
But the M remained sex starved, for about the past 5 years correct? So I'm Curious why you did not think intimacy needed to change, given your suspicions.
Were you only motivated to work on the m since she admitted having affairs or not knowing if she wanted to be married or what? I'm not trying to make you feel worse.
I am curious b/c if she sees your behavior in the past - as an indifference to OMs, she may genuinely be surprised at your present reaction.
she wants to rely on my support for her problems at work...and I have always been a huge supporter of her..so it's hard for me to give her the cold shoulder but it seems necessary at this point.. correct? No. You really need to read a Div Busting or Divorce Remedy book asap. The cold shoulder is Nowhere in the books and it's not a part of this approach.
detachment is not indifference
...so far..in terms of GAL, I realize I may have been depressed for awhile but kind of thought acknowledging that would be an excuse.
Well, it's something your w has had to cope with as your spouse, and it's probably an underlying problem that has polluted things between you two. I think it's legitimate to seek help for it and admit that, (not in a dramatic way expecting a reaction but b/c you are having an awakening about being happier and content in YOUR LIFE)
and then she'd know at least one piece of the marriage problems is being addressed. Otherwise why would she expect the marriage to improve?
are you directly addressing the depression or solely relying on exercise to heal?
Why not also see an IC/Therapist? Or an MD to rule out thyroid problems or other physical issues? Couldn't they also play a role in your marital history?
..and have begun to exercise daily, first thing before doing anything (I remember Tony Robbins talking about "getting disturbed" and have your runners right next to your bed)..it turns out, that single action has made me feel immensely better...I see immediate results... good!
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M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
it is not truly laissez faire la la land, in that You are supposed to be doing something. You are working on you. What does that mean to you? Are you in IC yet?
A: I had my first DB coach session today...starting IC Tuesday...I feel good just making the appointment
Have you read the DR book? It's a must and if you have not read it yet, can you explain what the hold up is? Not hammering you about it but asking you to ask yourself why it has not happened. I assume it hasn't b/c SOME of your questions indicate unfamiliarity with DB concepts, that's all.
A: I have the book...reading it today!
You "had her move out of the MBR" means what?
A: I just told her I prefer if she sleep in another room based on what I read here on the forum ...the day after this, she left the note saying she ended the A
But the M remained sex starved, for about the past 5 years correct? So I'm Curious why you did not think intimacy needed to change, given your suspicions.
A: I certainly DID think it needed to change and wanted it to change...I tried to communicate that and one time she blew up and said "don't talk to me about sex"...so I laid off for quite awhile and felt she needed time...then, I convinced her to come to a counselling session with me together...she changed her mind at the last second and met alone with the counselor...but there were no subsequent meetings after that...this was last November/December ...when I figured out one of the A's, we were together on an amazing trip...it blew my mind....especially because I thought if I can help create the circumstances for intimacy like being alone together in a hotel away from all the worries of work, then we could achieve some success...but it was kind of sidetracked
The DB coach had some useful advice...
recommended a tool for what to do and what not to do: "if i do or say this, would I say this pulls her closer, push her away or be neutral at this time"..apply this thinking to my communications with W
....also said to look for small signs that we may be going in a better direction
...I explained to the coach that I'm on a roller-coaster day to day...some times the anger leads me to do the silent treatment and when I apply her recommendation I'd say that is going to push W away..so, I need to realize that's not a successful behavior
....the DB coach thought if I try something and it works, do more of it...if it's not working and pushing her away then stop
I'm feeling really frustrated today...W seems intent on talking about financial things and "if we split, _ _ _ _"
..I'm trying to do everything I can to GAL and 180... ..I'm starting IC Tuesday..and meeting with DB coach again next Wed...I understand I'm doing these things for ME
I'm not feeling remorse from her for her A's ....
yes, it's possible her A is an exit A to leave the relationship, and I realize I need to be open to separation and/or D as a possible outcome...but it's simply not clear this is the best outcome and doesn't make sense to me...even if the R is SSM...is it not valid to ATTEMPT to work on things?
I do feel that she is in some sort of mid-life crisis..
I'd like to communicate to her that making snap judgements relating to our 10-12 R doesn't make sense..
A good 180 would be to sit down with your wife and figure out the financial stuff. That is an action that will help show her that you're ready and willing to split.
almost a year since my last post...still feeling very frustrated....
w makes no attempt to show any sort of affection whatsoever...I try and kiss her and she finds every excuse possible to pull away...should i ask her to move out?...ask her to move out of the bedroom again?....my DB coach told me to avoid things which push her away...
we can still have good conversation and support each other..we travel together and have a great time...we do quite well financially together....but i dont want to live with an acquaintance....i want a meaningful intimate relationship with the person i love...is this too much to ask??...I am willing to admit my role and shortcomings in our relationship and do the work necessary, but it seems like she is not..
I never make any serious move in bed since i fear rejection and see no sign she is remotely interested...is it possible I'm misreading and she thinks since I don't make any move that i'm not interested??
It's hard to know but given her adverse reaction to any attempt at affection by me it's very possible...I just don't know if I should question her on it at this point...i'm afraid of communicating any of my feelings right now...not sure how to proceed..
w makes no attempt to show any sort of affection whatsoever...I try and kiss her and she finds every excuse possible to pull away...should i ask her to move out?...ask her to move out of the bedroom again?....my DB coach told me to avoid things which push her away...
Well you two are stuck, that's for sure. I suspect your W doesn't want you, but does want the security of a home and a double-income. As for asking her to move out, that depends on what you want. I'm sure you want to recon, but now that so much time has passed you've got to accept that you're in a sexless, loveless marriage and decide if that's acceptable. I get the impression that it's not, so yes, it may be time to separate. I suspect that separation may switch her from a WAS to a LBS, but you can't bank on that. So if you go down that road just make sure it's what you really want.
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i want a meaningful intimate relationship with the person i love...is this too much to ask??
If you ask me, my take is sex and intimacy is REQUIRED. I personally accept nothing less in my romantic relationships. It amazes me how many people out there DO accept that though. One of my coworkers has been married for around 40 years and says they have sex once or twice a year, and he has to beg for it. How people get in these situations is beyond me but it does happen. My aunt and uncle were like that too, no sex for the last 10 years of their M.
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...I am willing to admit my role and shortcomings in our relationship and do the work necessary, but it seems like she is not..
No she clearly is not working on anything. So you've got to decide if you are OK with the status quo or not.
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I never make any serious move in bed since i fear rejection and see no sign she is remotely interested...is it possible I'm misreading and she thinks since I don't make any move that i'm not interested??
More than likely she's not interested. I wouldn't put the moves on her given everything you describe, she's likely to react very negatively to it.
well..she's the primary breadwinner, but i do contribute financially managing rental properties...if we do D, it will certainly impact her financially in a huge way if everything is divided...it's so frustrating that a person you've loved doesn't seem to want to even ATTEMPT to work on things through counselling or anything...I really have not seen any ownership on her part for problems that have occurred...I feel like it's all pinned on me...over the last several years I have listened to her complaints and criticisms and truly worked on myself and been able to admit mistakes I made and change those things in myself...I don't feel the same from her...
a classic line from her:
"it shouldn't be work"..referring to a relationship...this seems to be such nonsense to me
...she truly wanted her cake...have me as a live-in roommate who manages properties while she sleeps with whoever she wants..
..the other day I finally became so frustrated that every time I attempted any affection like a hug or kiss I felt being pushed away..so i've stopped that.
..should I ask her to sleep in a different room? over the past 10 years she has had 3 A's that i know of...I don't know if she's having one right now and haven't tried to find out..
I've told her how much I want an intimate relationship with her...surely it's obvious the efforts I was making..but you cant force someone..
financially in the long run it would also be better for me to remain in this relationship...we make a good team, and we both wouldn't be where we are without each other...but, that isn't the reason to spend a life with someone
