Thread #3 - Mediation

[Bdog37]

25 makes some pretty good points. No amount of anger will snap the S into reality and help them realize their faults.

However, anger is a valid emotion. Let's face it...we are all human here and sometimes we need to vent out our anger and frustration. What better place to do it than to people who actually know and understand what we are going through?

Just don't let the anger control you man. No need to live with that. Like a wise little green guy once said; "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering". -Yoda

[job]

Bdog37,

Very well said. Anger can help you to move forward and if you use that anger in a productive way, you may very well be surprised at what you can accomplish in life. Things said and done in anger can't be taken back. That's why we recommend to posters that if you are angry after something has been said or done to you, step back and wait 24-48 hours before responding. You can get far more accomplished and your point across if you react in a very calm manner.

Being angry and staying angry requires a lot of energy. It also affects your health at some point. Find something productive to do when that anger comes out to play.

[KevinIn]

Today is my 8 year wedding anniversary. My wife moved out about 5 weeks ago and we've been separated about 3 months. Not how I envisioned my 8 year anniversary, but the 7 year itch got the best of her.

I didn't want to completely ignore that today is our anniversary and we've both been trying to be cordial to each other lately, so I sent her this text message (she's flying somewhere for work today, and I'm going to my kid's field trip):

Enjoy our anniversary day. Hope you had a good flight.

She replied with this:

We were delayed so just taking off now. I hope you have a good day too and enjoy the field trip. I know she so excited to have you there

I do feel pretty darn detached lately which feels good.

[lt0402]

Kevin, hope the field trip with your kid was awesome! The symbolic dates suck but that's good that you two are able to be cordial with each other. I think co-parenting from separate homes will be tough enough. Having a bunch of acrimony to go with hat would make it damn near impossible. Hang in there brother.

[KevinIn]

I friend who still talks to my wife told me last night that my wife is apparently "devasted" about a bad breakup she had with the other guy and she spends a lot of time crying. My wife hasn't said anything to me about it and we still don't talk about anything other than kid-related logistics.

While I feel marginally satisfied that she's feeling pain from that fantasy relationship not working out, I'm mostly ambivalent about it - I really don't care. I'm taking this as a sign that I'm even more fully detached.

Meanwhile, I've been surprisingly happy lately. I'm really not thinking about her at all. Hardly any anger, almost no sadness. I'm finally able to focus again at work.

[Gordie]

Kevin,

You sound great. Glad you are off your W's roller coaster and contentedly living your life. Great way to handle your anniversary. Still not sure how to handle those things myself.

All the best,

Gordie

[Btrow]

While I feel marginally satisfied that she's feeling pain from that fantasy relationship not working out, I'm mostly ambivalent about it - I really don't care. I'm taking this as a sign that I'm even more fully detached.

You seem to have detached completely 'cause I'd be jumping up and down and opening a bottle of champagne (don' t we all want to see the relationship between X and AP fizzle out?). So well done on the work you have done on yourself, to get to where you are now.

Anyway, its nice to see that some of these affairs actually do end.

[KevinIn]

Journaling / venting:

While i've done an okay job at detaching, im sure i will always have certain things that trigger me from this experience. I've been slightly disturbed the past few days after my older daughter told me that "mom took us to the baseball game with her friend Kate, and her neighbor Al. Al also brought his 12 year old nephew." I know Kate. I don't know Al.

Now, the part that is bugging me. This guy Al. He's a new character in wife's life, which is understandable because he lives by my wife's new place. Hanging out together around the condo complex is one thing, but going to a baseball game together and bringing my kids is another thing. While we don't have signed custody agreement yet banning introducing our kids to new romantic partners, and i'm not even sure they are romantic, it does bug me that there's some random dude being exposed to my kids. And, speaking from a guy's point-of-view, if he's not already a romantic partner, I can bet he's trying to become one.

Its no longer any of my business what my high moral wife does with her life, so why does it bug me that she may have moved on to OP #2 now that she was dumped by OP #1? I can also just chalk it up that she is going through a weird time in her life that is bringing out her inner desire to be more sexual (which i would have enjoyed while we were together).

That's my rant. I'm not going to say anything to her about until after we finalize the custody agreement. I'll get over it. i'm working on getting some stuff in my custody agreement that makes me okay with things like this.

[KevinIn]

Journaling - Another mediation session today...


Background:
-Separated in mid-February
-Had a few mediation sessions, but it was tough emotionally
-Asked wife for a break from mediation in May so i could regain my composure
-Got to a better place over the past few months (or so I thought)
-Scheduled a mediation session for today
-Prepared for today by keeping in mind what really means the most to me: my kids

So, we had our mediation today. I scheduled it for the perfect time when i knew i'd be in a good mood, happy, not angry (relatively speaking), and all around in the best mental place for mediation.

I started with a few no conflict, easy to agree upon items. We agreed and were able to come to agreement on quite a few items. But, I could tell the wife was not in a good place mentally. Her hands were shaky and she was irritable.

Finally, out of no where in the middle of a discussion about custody, she brings up money. Something had been bothering her, but she never brought it up previously. Then, she started talking about it and getting very irritated and worked up. I remained calm and collected and listened to her.

We eventually moved through a few other minor custody details when she threw out a HUGE request that i didn't agree with. Instead of saying no or laughing or any other response, I calmly asked some clarifying questions, took notes, and said i'd be more than happy to think about her proposal. It was a solid 180 from her memory of the "old me". I truly wanted to be flexible and collaborative.

A few minutes later she was visibly mad. I asked why she was acting angry and I said i'd like for us to move forward in a more collected fashion. I then said that "i'm not getting worked up and i'm making an effort to stay calm and focused." She then said i was being condescending and she hated that about me. I truly wasn't being condescending, but that's what she thought so it didn't matter.

I had a few big requests of my own, so I laid them out in what i thought was a fair presentation and kept calm throughout. I had flexibility in the options and asked for her input. There was no "it has to be my way" about it." My requests were simply items for discussion. I asked for her proposals on how to make them happen.

She said in a very angry tone "no. i will not consider these." She had zero flexibility.

The conversation continued to go downhill. I kept myself together for the most part, but did slip up at one point and said something a little sketchy. It took both the wife and the mediator off guard. I recovered from it and calmed them both down, which luckily allowed us all to reset.

We eventually walked away with both me and my wife emailing each other options on how to incorporate each other's wish lists into the custody agreement.

Oh, and she was mad that i had commented on some Facebook post about cheaters breaking up marriages. Apparently i shouldn't have done that. In reality, i should have just stayed off Facebook. I'm now deleting my entire facebook account - nothing good comes from it.

Overall, i'm happy i went into today with the right mental perspective. My DB Coach, Chuck, always emphasizes the need to be in the best mood possible. It was still very painful since i didn't want the separation and was willing to work on fixing our marriage.

On my ride home, i realized she still has no remorse about her affair, has not taken any responsibility for anything (including the affair), has a victim mentality, and isn't learning anything from this. She's combative and not in a good place.

I'd like to think i've learned from this and become a better person. But, maybe i have zero self awareness and i'm really the horrible person. Maybe she was right to have the affair and leave the marriage. I hope that's not the case and it [censored] i'm second guessing my own self perception.

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gaslight
[gas-lahyt]

verb (used with object), gaslighted or gaslit, gaslighting.

4. to cause (a person) to doubt his or her sanity

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[KevinIn]

Journaling:

Haven't posted here in a while, but had something interesting to share with this community. Over the past few months, things haven't really changed between me and my wife. She has a lot of anger towards me, which i still can't fully understand (she cheated on me - i should be the angry one, right?). I may not be perfect, but I haven't done all that much over the past 9 months to make her all that mad, especially considering everything she's done to me that I could have acted much worse about.

So, things are kinda a new normal. Definitely not the normal I wanted at this point in life. But, nonetheless, its at least consistent. And fortunately, both kids (ages 3 and 6) seem to be doing okay and not having any noticeable issues.

Here's where my post gets interesting. My 6 year old recently said that she wanted to talk to her school counselor about "my parent's divorce." I asked if she wanted to talk to me and she said that she really just wanted to talk to the counselor. I said okay and had the teacher arrange it. So, today they talked and the counselor called me after to tell me what they talked about. Nothing surprising really. I ended up calling my wife to tell her about my conversation with the counselor. At one point I said something like "its hard for kids to understand that their parents will never get back together". My wife said "yeah" in what i thought was a slightly sad tone.

Now, i know a principal of divorce busting is to not temperature check or pursue, but i've been separated for 8 months and barely talk to my wife anymore and have no hope or expectations that we will ever get back together (nor do i know if i even want that). But, i was curious if she finally felt like trying to fix our relationship (if you read through all my posts, you'll see that she repeatedly said that she never tried to fix things and didn't even want to try to fix things - this is very hard to hear).

So, I said "Unless you want to try to fix things. Do you?" She replied in what i interpreted as a mean tone "Kevin, NO!". I said okay. It was pretty clear that she still has zero desire to ever work on our relationship. I still find it hard to believe that this woman that I truly loved for so long and that I have two kids with checked out of our relationship a year ago and seems to have zero regrets or remorse about it. Its almost a badge of honor that she won't even accept the idea of working on our relationship.

After we hung up, i texted her that it came across as mean, that i've given up hope but at least wanted to ask if she would work to save a marriage, and that i was sorry that she was so unhappy in our marriage that after 8 months of separation that she still has that response and that i can't imagine the pain she was in while we were married. She texted back that she didn't intend on being mean, and that it wasn't about me, "it was more about feeling bad saying it." I'm not really sure what this means.

So, that's my update. Nothing really exciting. In summary, after not talking about our relationship for many months, I asked if she wanted to try working on things during a conversation about our kid wanting us to not be divorced. She said no to working on things. Her loss.

I will say i've moved on to a descent place mentally. I don't really get sad anymore. But, i still find it perplexing that she was so unhappy in our marriage that she has refused to work on our relationship since the day she said she was unhappy and having an affair. She really was "checked out" when she finally told me. While divorce busting may have helped me get through the tough times, I don't think there was anything i could have done to save our marriage. At least I can have peace of mind that I actively tried to save our marriage and that it really was her decision to walk away.