Thanks for this amazing messageboard full of people caring for and helping complete strangers.
Just a couple of quick questions.
If an XW shows none of the extreme signs of MLC or waywardness (as described by Sandi), and has acted relatively normal pre-, during and after D, is she automaticually a walk away then?
And is it possible to be in an EA with out either knowing that it is an EA or the person in it doesn't consider it an A?
M:46 WXW:40 T:20 M:13 D3,D8,D10 BD:11/12/16 D:12/14/16 OM confirmed 01/20/17
And is it possible to be in an EA with out either knowing that it is an EA or the person in it doesn't consider it an A?
What a strange question. Are you asking for yourself? All kidding aside, the answer is yes.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Nope, was asking regering the xw. Im not sure she considers being in a close friendship with a guy as something more than a "normal" friendship. Thanks for replying.
M:46 WXW:40 T:20 M:13 D3,D8,D10 BD:11/12/16 D:12/14/16 OM confirmed 01/20/17
And is it possible to be in an EA with out either knowing that it is an EA or the person in it doesn't consider it an A?
Btrow,
The common metaphor that's used when explaining an EA is a frog in a pot of water. The water is being heated on a stove. At first, the warm water is feeling really good, and it feels so good that the frog basks in the warmth until it's too late. Where the metaphor breaks-down is that the frog eventually croaks, but EA partners don't croak, they get lost in the dense fog of hormonal juices.
Thanks for this amazing messageboard full of people caring for and helping complete strangers.
Just a couple of quick questions.
If an XW shows none of the extreme signs of MLC or waywardness (as described by Sandi), and has acted relatively normal pre-, during and after D, is she automaticually a walk away then?
And is it possible to be in an EA with out either knowing that it is an EA or the person in it doesn't consider it an A?
Hello Btrow,
Would you mind providing more details regarding your situation? We will be more supportive with more information.
I like the metaphor from Doodler. Clever and gets the point across.
The short answer is yes, it can be EA without them thinking it is. What else can you tell us about your marital relationship?
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Thanks for the replies. I’ll try to keep my story short even though I easily could write 50000 words regarding it.
Me: 46 XW: 40 T: 20 M: 13 D: 10 D: 8 D: 3 BD 12. Nov. 2016 D: 15. Dec. 2016 XW: moved out 1. jan 2017
I always thought my marriage was good. No abuse of any sorts, mental or physical, just a loving M and family. As in all families, a couple of minor arguments here and there off course, but no major issues. In fact looking back at the last year, in my mind (and I mean it) it has been one of the best for a long time (not that there was anything wrong before).
The last couple of months since BD have obviously been terrible, and not really knowing why I got divorced in the first place, I’ll just try to assume there has been OM involved for a long period, and base my post on that assumption. XW never gave me a proper explanation, just a text reply with “deep down you know it hasn’t been good for a long time (in periods, yes) I care deeply for you, but not as my husband”. Well, I did not know. Not even deep down.
Back in April, XW went on a 3 day non work related trip with some co-workers. Male and female. No big deal, as there are many young people at her workplace, so I suppose trips like that are nothing out of the ordinary. I have not been jealous or “nervous” about my XW once in 20 years, but this one was different. When she got back, I simply had to check her phone. I had the opportunity the day after she came back and I checked her Facebook and found a “secret” group for her co-workers. There were some videos and some pictures, and in one of the videos where all of them are dancing on their chairs, it appeared some guy attempted to kiss my XW. She rejected, but whether that was because she did not want to or because it was being filmed, I have no idea. There were also some pictures and he always sat next to her or stood by her side. I confronted her, and naturally, she was disappointed that I had checked, but that was just a co-worker, almost 20 years older than she was, and the reason they were side by side on most of the pictures she explained was due to the fact that he was the one of the co-workers she had the most in common with. “What looked like an attempted kiss, was because he tripped”
Yeah crazy right, me nervous about my 39 year old XW and a dude almost 60…
Fast forward to the summer, and my W 40 birthday. Friends, family and co-workers invited. OM was placed at the table right beside ours, and directly facing my XW. When confronted the next day, off course it was coincidental. In fact, during that talk, I started crying voicing my concerns over my family. I have NO idea why I felt so threatened by that guy. Looking back, there wasn’t a whole lot of emotions from XW, I might as well have told the story to the postman, and his reaction to my tears would probably have been similar..
Fast forward to October, my XW suddenly started acting distant, and hugs and kisses slowly disappeared. Even emoticons in texts vanished. One night I “jumped” onto her in bed (knowing nothing would happen) she rejected me with an “I’m just not in the mood at the moment”. I rolled over, went out to smoke 30 minutes later (I didn’t smoke regularly back then) but she followed shortly after and told me to come back inside “it has nothing to do with what we talked about in the summer”. Well, why would she think that was my concern? We hadn’t discussed OM since then, so..
(I remember things being normal between April and October but maybe my memory fails me here - we had sex on a regular basis up until middle september, not only on my initiative)
I know I should have talked to her about it, but I simply panicked (due to, well you know...) hoping things would get back to normal. 11/12 I had enough and asked her what was going on. She told me she did not have any feelings for me any longer. No OM. I asked if it was something we could work on, which we could not so I told her to inform the kids the next day that mummy and daddy were divorcing. And she did… Without any sort of emotions from her. All three kids (and daddy) were in tears, but mummy was cold.
Next couple of days were obviously difficult, but we lived in the same house for one week and then agreed that the environment wasn’t healthy for the kids and we started living there one week shifts. I lived with a brother and she sort of lived with, yes you guessed it, OM. A nearby hotel has some rooms in his building which I suppose they are using when the normal rooms are full. He has access to those as he does some work for them. Allegedly, she lived in one of those rooms. Or at least, so she told me later.
A couple of days after BD, I got at text from MIL’s spouse. “Shocked, that came out of nowhere. I have been where you are, and you have the right to keep your dignity. I didn’t find out until much later” + some more irrelevant stuff. His XW left him 10 years ago for AP whom she had had an A with for years.. Whether he referred to being dumped or betrayed, I never asked. Would not put him in that position.
Looking back there might have been warning signs. Late September XW and coworkers had a party (they have 6-8 of those per year) and she did not come home until 6.45 AM. It was on a weekday so I had to take the kids to school so didn’t really have time to talk to her, but weekday parties aren’t that uncommon for them as they often work weekends meaning they have weekdays off, now and then. 6.45 AM was very late, but nothing extreme I thought, as she normally went out until 0500-0600 when partying with the coworkers. But for the first time in ages she didn’t come home the least “drunk”. Completely sober. I quickly forgot about it though as life was normal late September… Had I been on Facebook back then I would probably have wondered about the “poem” XW put up there 3 or 4 days after that party. Something in the lines of “cherish the moment, tomorrow it will only be a memory”. The next day she posted something almost identical. And off course, the phone... At some point during the summer, she suddenly had to take it with her in the shower to listen to music.. One of her friends got D a couple of months before us (from an old friend of mine) so maybe the phone was untouchable due to them texting her matters, I don't know.
I have more indications that she was involved with OM, but as mentioned initially, I could go on forever with my story. XW got her own place 1. January and I kept the martial home. Kids are shared 50/50. I have them every other week. Me and XW didn’t really see each other more than 2-3 times between BD and moving out date, but she never admitted any relations with OM. Until late January, she sent me a mail that her “blooming friendship” with OM had evolved into something more after D. But that she never cheated on me and had done nothing wrong. As mentioned in my original post in this thread, I am not even sure she knows that a blooming friendship is an EA. So she probably admitted without realizing herself. They might have gone PA late September, but I am guessing here. I have other intel that indicates no PA until late December.
I have always been a great parent, and probably added 50 % since D, as I have to show my kids 2 weeks of love and fun in only one week (does that make sense?). So that part is no need for worry.
Would I take her back if she came? I’m probably not strong enough to reject her just yet, if that would be the right choice. But eventually I will be. Her life would be terrible if she became single. In her kids weeks, she probably cannot socialize other than child related stuff. In the non-kids weeks, I think she is working 6 days 1400-2100 PM 4 or 5 of those. That’s not a life when you are alone, is it? The thing is. I don’t get that relationship… I have no problems with age gap relationships, but him probably being single for years and now he’s dating a single mom with 3 very little kids.
I don’t think he spends much time at XW house when the kids are there, probably all days when the kids are with me, so the nature of their relationship I have no clue on. Maybe he’s just taking advantage of a lonely single mother, maybe its true love. Who knows.
I originally joined this board to find advice on how to handle XW. Learned a lot from Sandis threads regarding waywards, but I’m not so sure XW checks too many of the wayward boxes. She has been relatively normal throughout the process, and she even cried a couple of times back in November, hugging me and wouldn’t let go. To be honest, I am not even sure she was 100 % certain her decision to leave was the right one. That doesn’t sound like MLC or waywardness, does it?
In conclusion, I am doing ok. Obviously, this is hard, and missing my kids every other week doesn’t make things any easier. XW worked before BD evenings 2-3 times pr. week and one weekend shift, so I have been a lot alone with the kids over the years, which is probably making me miss them even more.
I have been going dark since late November and never once asked her to reconsider. Never begged, cried or anything. Well yes when she told the kids, but they were the reason I cried back then.
Originally, we agreed to “borrow” the kids one afternoon in the other persons week, but since I in hindsight realized that would confuse them even more, I managed to persuade XW to cancel that arrangement. I drop the kids of at school Monday morning, and pick them up again next Monday afternoon. So I more or less don’t have to see XW. We exchange an email on child matters on Sundays, that’s all. I have no doubt that she would love a cup of coffee with me every week to “discuss child matters” and she even suggested in December that we could eat together, the 5 of us, every other Sunday. Which of course, will never happen..
A couple more pointers on how to put XW in a position of thinking “what did I do” would be appreciated. Not that I necessarily would take her back, I’d just like the option.. I will work on worrying less on what is going on over there, and more on what is going on over here.
I have picked up an old passion of mine (running), I am going to sport events, going out with friends, making new ones etc. In addition to that, I have a large house that needs maintenance all year long. So I don’t have to sit on the couch every night, although some days I still choose to. I have no problems with the ladies, so love will certainly find me again someday. When I am ready.
I will get through this eventually.
M:46 WXW:40 T:20 M:13 D3,D8,D10 BD:11/12/16 D:12/14/16 OM confirmed 01/20/17
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
When i first posted here, i don’t know why, probably just looking for advice. But after constant lurking for months, I have come to the conclusion that it is a good way to “get it out of the system” so I’ll start to post more regularly.
One thing that bothers (or annoys me, or worries me) is that XW is nothing like most other WW’s described here. Never blaming me for anything, always being nice etc.
For instance, if I send her a text or an e-mail (we don’t write all that much as I’m going completely dark, only minimum need-to-know stuff regarding the kids) and I know she won’t like the contents of what I’m writing, she always comes back next time (maybe days later regarding some other kid related stuff) with a “hi Btrow (obviously not my real name)” bla bla bla smiley”. We have had some heated text/mail arguments about the kids and how to deal with them etc., but she always attempts the “nice” approach each time. Therefore, as I said, she does not strike me as a “normal” WW.
For reasons unknown, I seem to have handled everything almost 100 % perfect since BD (no pleading, no begging, no contact, no R talk) but I definitely stink at DB’ing. Although I try to GAL as much as possible, the days just seem to disappear with nothing to show for them. In addition, even if I am 4˝ months in, emotions still surface occasionally. Started weeping both yesterday and the day before. Both initiated from DB’ing, two days ago from one of Micheles funny little stories in DR and yesterday from making the mistake of going through the piecing forum. That place can be BRUTAL for you, if you are a mess 
Anyway, have not seen much of XW the past 5-7 weeks due to my black belt in going dark, but last week I had to see her. D10 has started hearing voices. They shout YES or NO in her head, and she sees things moving in slow motion. Therefore, we had to go to some sort of family crisis center (sounds extreme in English, but do not know how else to translate) to figure out how to proceed with D10s issues (the first meeting would be without kids). The councilor was amazing. I’m sure one of XW’s ulterior motives for going, was to get some “expert” telling her XH that we had to show the kids how great friends we are, hug when we exchange them, drink coffee together with the kids and so on. However, as mentioned, he was great. She got no sort of “help” from him; on the contrary, his approach was exactly like mine. M 1 XW 0 ;-)
Whenever problems that has arisen from D was mentioned, he would say something to XW like “yeah, but that’s your choice or that’s on you”. Wonderful.
He asked many questions to our situation, who initiated the divorce and so on. However, never “why”. At some point, he said, “I can see that Btrow is angry with you, are you angry with him” (as I said, I stink at DB’ing, wishing I could fake a “don’t care” attitude).
I noticed that XW is uncomfortable around me. She does not seem too confident when I am around, which makes me wonder. (I am not and have never been abusive in any way, neither physical nor verbal – not even shouted at her once through this entire hell I am going through). Why is she as nervous around me as I am around her?
At some point in the talk about D10 (she wets her bed at night, has done for years, was almost out of it, now every night again) he said that maybe D10 could feel over the last year or so that mum and dad had argued more. Here I was cool, calm, collected and said, “no, can’t be it, the last year has been good, no more arguing than normal”, and XW did not comment. I could swear that he had no clue as to why we divorced…. A little later XW suddenly said, “it was good some of the time” (with English not being my first language maybe something gets lost in translation)”. Again, that is a strange thing to say, is it not? Shouldn’t she say “it was mostly crab” or “I fell out of love” instead of pointing to the good times…. I do not get it...
At some point when discussing either the anger from me or the fact that it is obvious that I don’t want to be her friend, he said directly to her “so you are not moving back tomorrow” – he knew by then that she was seeing someone else, so whether he thought I was to blame for D or he was trying to be funny, or he read something from us/her, I never figured out (in hindsight not really that funny from the LBS perspective….). Anyway, her answer was a weak, “no…….we do not”
You see many people here who has been through this telling you not to think too much of what’s going through WAS mind. Believe them… It will drive you crazy. Friday morning I received a text from her (once again with a nice approach) that D3 would like to come visit daddy for a couple of hours today as she misses him (first time since BD that has happened – not the missing – the text regarding it). My mindset that morning?
Now what would XW gain from that, she needs a sitter? No, then she would say all three kids missed daddy. But then again D8 and D10 could probably be alone for a couple of hours so maybe she did need a sitter? No, kindergarten (daycare or whatever it is called) is still open, so it cannot be it. Maybe she is trying to make me look incorporative or as a bad parent if we ever went to court for another custody agreement. No, she know I would not say no to my kids. Besides that, I am much more flexible than she is as she hardly ever can have the kids visit her due to her working hours in the kiddy free weeks. THEN WHAT ARE HER MOTIVES….. Driving me crazy…. That must be the motive.
Also next morning, she accidently replied a text to me, which was not from me. Now why would she do that, that must be impossible to read a text, and then press reply in another thread? Looking for a reply, making me notice she is alive? Instead of looking at it as a simple error, everything is twisted and turned. It will drive you crazy…
Enough for now, will try to post a couple of times per week, or whenever something interesting happens. Anyone feel free to comment, all feedback is warmly welcomed.
M:46 WXW:40 T:20 M:13 D3,D8,D10 BD:11/12/16 D:12/14/16 OM confirmed 01/20/17
D8 and D10 told me yesterday that D3 cried for a long time Saturday night missing daddy even though she saw me for a couple of hours the day before. It hurts so much being absolutely powerless in giving my kids the loving two-parent family I believe they deserve. I keep telling myself that is HAS to have some sort of effect on XW. It probably doesn’t though… In the land of unicorns and rainbows, kids feelings don’t matter. Or at least, matter enough.
It won’t be long before D3, being so young, forget that we all used to live in the same house as a big happy family. At least D8 and D10 got to live a large part of their childhood that way, and somewhat I hope that when they grow up, they’ll remember how all of this influenced their own childhood, and do - or at least try to do - “the right thing” when they eventually are facing martial issues.
That’s one of my issues with XW. If she was unhappy, why didn’t she at least try to work with me on making things better. As she has said on two occasions now, it was good some of the time. Why not take that and try to expand those times.
One week away from the family meeting at the counselor. I’m worried how I’ll react when I hear my kids honest view on the whole situation. I know that XW will be cold and hard like a stone towards their emotions.
Just one more thing for now, I think XW believe I’m angry with her due to different views on how to handle the kids schedule. She appears to have no clue that I’m angry because of the betrayal. She must think that I believed the bull she wrote me back in January, that she didn’t have an affair towards the end of our M (with the OM she’s dating now).
M:46 WXW:40 T:20 M:13 D3,D8,D10 BD:11/12/16 D:12/14/16 OM confirmed 01/20/17
