Andrew, You've got some of the best people posting to you. They can be tough, but they will always be there for you. They will challenge you and make you take a step back and think about who you are, what you want and where you will go from here.
I agree, we can't always edit when we want to, but there is always an opportunity to learn from our mistakes and continue to move forward. Sometimes, "editing" takes a while because we have to distance ourselves from the problem in order to get a clearer picture/understanding of what we need to do.
BTW, if you need something edited, just let me know. I'll be happy to do it for you.
Keep posting, keep thinking and always know that we have nothing but the best intentions to help you get to where you need to be.
BTW, it's time to start a new thread.
Last edited by job; 09/13/1602:56 PM. Reason: Reminder to start a new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
How would you define the difference between Love, and Obligation ??
Was your life together one of Love, or Obligation ??
Mach1 - it was absolutely one of Love. I adored W and even now any time I think hard about "her" rather than what has happened in the last 8 or 9 months I still do. I don't think I'd have gone through this just out of duty and obligation when she seemed to have cast me aside. Even right now thinking of her, my knees go weak and my heart gets tight in my chest and that's not duty. To address Ginger's final point, yes I completely agree that they go together. Just like J3B advised me earlier, use whatever fuel is available to help keep standing. Some days it's love, other days it's duty. One of my conflicts is questioning "is love enough". Can the powerful love that I had and believe I still have for W overcome the hurt and pain that she has caused me and can it allow me to again overlook whatever shortcomings she may have as a partner and accept her for the person that she is / will be? And is that the "right" thing for AndrewP to do? If I were only to look at this logically and "rationally" I would pull the trigger and move on either alone or with one of these mythical NG who I am assured are lining up to be with me
I'm not going to tell you that you are right or wrong. Only you can decide that.
^^^ The bolded part..
What you are feeling probably isn't duty, and it could be love.
Yet it also could be fear...
I haven't read a person here, that hasn't glorified the relationship a bit to justify their stand. At least in the beginning...
Was the love real ?
I'm sure that it was, and maybe still is...
But I would bet, that if you are totally honest with yourself.
The fear of losing her, and the fear of losing the relationship is greater right now...
How much of that is through rose colored glasses ?
Many posters put those damned things on after the bomb..
And while it is ideal to look at things logically and rationally...
I think that looking at things HONESTLY is where I would like to see you.
You can rationalize anything if you want to do it bad enough. You can logistically find a way to do anything if you want it bad enough...
You can't hide from the truth...
I can tell you for a fact, that as hard as things seem now, as you go down the road of standing, they will get harder.
You have barely nicked the surface of this. You have barely seen the monster labeled MLC.
You have barely started the internal reflection, and answering the hard questions...
The only way through this, is to fight for yourself first, let everything else happen around you.
You define who YOU are, and nobody else gets to do this.
You define how you love...
You define how you stand...
You define how you act...
What does it really mean to you, to love ??
And not some bullschidt Hollywood The Notebook version either...
True love, almost unconditional love ???
If I were to ask her about love, what would she say ?
I can bet that she doesn't believe in love.
Why ?
Because she has no idea who she is right now....
And for today, that is okay.
Because even though you know the superficial answers, I am pretty sure that the depth of the answer is still very much elusive to you ( and that is okay too.)
And that is kind of where we would like to see you get...
Knowing who you are, what you believe in, what you want in life....
Experience to draw from...
YOU get to do that without all of the MLC fuzz growing in your noggin...
And I want you to take advantage of this opportunity....
And yes, I said opportunity, because it is a chance at a reboot for yourself.
Find out about you, learn about you, and leave her be to do that for herself.
I have been where you are, and some of those questions are the hardest things I ever had to do...
I don't envy you, yet in some ways, I DO envy you at this chance...
Think about this....think about your answers again...
What is the difference between Love and Obligation ???
I was waiting for a new post to start writing to you but Mach stole a lot of my thunder with that post (guess I learned a little...LOL).
I have so many things I want to throw out here to get you thinking about your sitch differently after reading all 11 pages last night but let's stick with love v. obligation. For me that was one of the biggest hurdles to get past and boy did I fight it. After the bomb I wore rose colored glasses only to find out I also had rose colored contacts on because I just didn't want to figure this one out because it was a major fault of mine.
I really want you to think about everything Mach wrote for your sitch. Because I'm feeling nice today I'll give you some of my own thoughts on this to help you think of it differently (I usually subscribe to the tough love style and let people figure a lot out themselves when they're ready). For me I thought love equaled obligation in marriage. I thought I had to stay with her because I took a vow, I had to do my duties with house and kids, I had to go to the couple and family events together and show a good face, I had to forgive and forget, I had to wait forever, etc...goes on and on. I also realized that it was almost a game to me in my head because I'm an extremely competitive person and no way I was going to lose at marriage. After people started helping me with this stuff and I started realizing there is more to marriage than obligation I would give the hollywood answer of knees weak and all that crap (no offense at all to what you wrote because I fully believed it as well). Here's the rub tho...no matter what Hollywood tells you or those romance books spew love is not a feeling. Yeah you'll have feelings for someone but at the end of the day love is a choice. Love is putting someone else's needs before yours no matter what, love is listening to your spouse and supporting them how they need to be supported (with advice, just listening, etc...), love is doing the things they like, love is planning a date night as a surprise instead of watching tv and drinking a few beers. Love is letting them go if that's what they want. Love is a choice, love is not a feeling.
Ok, I'm sure just like I had you've heard that before so why is it difficult? For me after a few on here beat me into submission (I need tough love ) I figured out on my own I never truly loved her. Heck I never really loved anyone for that matter because I didn't know what love really was. She wasn't always first in my life (I was a lot of the time), if she needed help she got it my way and not how she needed it, etc...
So, to ask you again. Did you really love your wife or did you play the role you thought you were supposed to play? Don't feel bad if it's the second because we work with the tools we have.
Going forward how does this definition of love change you and how you act towards others?
This request will be hard for you but try to not post as much about your W and what she's doing (or you think she's doing). MLC is a crazy mess and you likely will never know what's really going on in her head (she likely doesn't). As Mach said use this time to work on you (and no matter what you said earlier there are a lot of places to improve yourself).
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
Interesting. I'm coming to believe that each of us view these threads through the lens of our own situation.
Several of you think the critical issue is about love--what is it, did he ever feel it, etc.
I think the critical issue is being emotionally fused with his W and not having the emotional detachment and self-validation that's necessary for a long-term relationship. Probably because that's one of the key issues in my sitch.
You know what they say: when you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
