Semi-Detached, WW Rings off and Stressed

[Surfer]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...969#Post2700969

[Surfer]

Thought this summed things up. Link about back to old thread.

I sense a stressed out WW. She claims there was no OM (there was an EA - she claims it was just a friend). But they hid the connection, where they met, the extent of what was said, lied about it all as did her friends (because "she knew I would take it that way"). I wonder if I am made too much of it...IDK...??

Surfer.

[RDS]

I heard for sure - my ears are bleeding! She shared, how she felt and feels. Yes she might be attacking me but at least she shared - she wouldn't with someone she couldn't share with.....I think this is a positive but hey. As long as she doesn't hurt me (as I am sufficiently detached) I presume listening to this spew and validating is good. But for now, just don't encourage it? Particularly as detachment is still quite illusive.

I would appreciate any feedback on this.

Surfer.

Surfer, I took this from your last thread. When my W and I finally talked for the first time I was on the phone for 3 hours and my ears bleed too. According to her I was 99 percent at fault for our M death. She offered token apologies of her part, but in IMO she held me to blame for just about everything. I didn't point fingers towards her. I think it released the stress she had towards me somewhat. I think it is a good thing, and even though things have taken a darker turn between us since then I still think it was a good thing she opened up to me. It made me realize the resentment she held towards me for so long. It did allow me to steer myself in a new direction so I wouldn't make those same mistakes. Mistakes not only to her but to other people I deal with.

In the talks we've had since then the causes of our M death rarely come up anymore. We both know we were at fault and I still validate her reasoning. I know she played a very large part in the breakup but I'm past the point of caring about it. I see no point in bringing it up again.

[Coly23]

Surfer, do you think you can give her the benefit of the doubt? If you really love her can you forgive her? She sounds like she wants to stay in the marriage and that's a really positive step. She made a very big mistake in betraying you but she is flesh and blood.....

[Surfer]

RDS - thanks. Yes the same. Spew. I think it's guilt based, victim based this spew. But some is in fact fair, you have to admit that.

Thanks for the input!

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Coly,

Thank you for your comments.

Interesting. Why do you think she "sounds like she wants to stay in the M"? She says not. "It's too late etc....".

She is flesh and blood and yes I can forgive and move on. But I would need her to do the same. Happy to do it first etc. But having this all dragged up forever....that's not going to be happening. That is WW. We need to move on and accept each others failings, accept each other. I think there's still a lot of resentment, so I'll sit back for now. See how she is tomorrow when she drops the kids perhaps...?

Surfer

[SH_]

Hello Surfer!

I have read much of what you have shared with others as well as most of your story.
I have not posted as you seem to have a very sound grasp of DBing as I perceive in what you share with others and most of the approach you are taking with your own sitch looks to be leading you towards success.

But reading this post this morning, I have felt the urge to share a bit and challenge you so that you may move forward at a healthy pace.

That and you asked for feedback.

Called the WW earlier. She has been at wayward friends overnight with kids. Needed to check date for picking up kids. Asked if they were okay and her. She said yes but she has a lot on her mind and a lot to 'do'. No doubt she has had plenty of instruction from her wayward friend overnight. Also asked if the kids were there and could I talk. She said yes 'they' stayed overnight. They were downstairs and she would get them to call later. I do wonder if she is with an OM and can't get them to talk. She said 'they stayed' - as in the kids.

A little mind reading and creation of things that may or may not be.
Not benefiting you either way.
Right?

She was hard to talk to on the phone, clipped and angry. She also seemed to be trying to tell me she has a lot to orgnaise in terms of D. I know I am mind reading but I just wish she would either get on with it or not.

You said it my friend.
No benefit to you to go all psychic now is there?
How will her getting on with it change things for you now?
How will her not getting on with it change things for you now?

I must admit. I am ashamed of my wife's behavior. I truly do not like who she has become. I don't think there is any way back for her sadly. I don't think she can change back to the caring person I truly loved. Its such a shame.

Now this Surfer is that part that caught me off guard coming from you.
Why are you ashamed of her? What value to does that add to anything? How does that help you?
Not liking who she is now is normal. You know the goal is to simply accept that now.
No reason to focus on the like or dislike. Simply whether we accept it to impact or not impact our behavior.
And there you go from being a psychic to a fortune teller and predicting the future.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I don't believe that you have been trained adequately in either one of the arts of mind reading or predictions of the future.....right?

Had a follow-up call just now. Wow, that went on a long time. Basically lots of venting from her how 'I will never know how much I have damaged her through emotional abuse'. Wow. I think there is some truth in this (very small though), as I have at times been insensitive and snapped back in anger but she is definitively sensationalising things - saying that "I knowing, willingly and continually attempted to ruin her confidence, everything about her". That's garbage, I just didn't know how to deal with the spew. Yet hated seeing her like this. This is clearly gas lighting and history re-writing. Lots of 'You Always, You Never' etc. She is very good at it. However, whilst I let her go on a little long (1 hour) I do feel good for it as I am not hurt at all. I don't feel upset.I just feel "she is lost".

Now this is more of the Surfer that I know.
You see more clearly because you have learned.
Yes, there is always some truth to the spew.
Take what you need from that.
Clean up your side of the fence.
Keep moving forward in your lane.

She is starting to struggle again. I don't want her to struggle but perhaps it might help her. She is apparently so stressed she is on the verge of losing it (she often says this).

Her circus. Her monkeys.
Stay in your lane.
Focus on the road in front of you.

There were points in this conversation where I validated and she seemed to come back a little. Not sure whether continuing with the call was good but my DB Coach did say I need to give her a place to complain and be heard.

Wise advice from your coach.
Difficult challenge for the LBS.
Great time to practice validating.
When you say continue the call, did you put things out there that kept her talking, or did she just choose to go on an on.
I think you know what my point is here.

I heard for sure - my ears are bleeding! She shared, how she felt and feels. Yes she might be attacking me but at least she shared - she wouldn't with someone she couldn't share with.....I think this is a positive but hey. As long as she doesn't hurt me (as I am sufficiently detached) I presume listening to this spew and validating is good. But for now, just don't encourage it? Particularly as detachment is still quite illusive.

I have some bandaids that I can lend you if needed.
I was told once that it is a fine line between anger and love. Her sharing her anger with you may be a good thing. Positive yes, so long as you keep yourself in check, can handle it and are being honest about your part of the conversation.

And my thought on healthy detachment here.
It is not a destination.
Therefor it can not be elusive as you mention.

Healthy detachment is an action.
A decision.
One that takes practice and time to perfect.
One that allows for loving one while ensuring they are free to be who and what they choose to be.
The detachment that is merely a destination is the unhealthy detachment or better known as indifference. This is the easy kind, because you feel no pain, but also you feel no love or joy as it relates to the other person

Detachment is not that you should own nothing, but that nothing should own you. - Ali ibn abi Talib

I would appreciate any feedback on this.

Ask and ye shall receive.
Be careful what you ask for.

Keep going in the right direction Surfer. you are doing well and I believe you will prevail.

[sandi2]

I wonder if I am made too much of it...IDK...??

Now, you tell me if any friendship is worth a marriage. What woman in her right mind would chunk her M for a friendship? Sadly, our society has become so comfortable with male - female friendships, that now it's the first thing a wayward uses to disguise their affair.

You know better than this, Surfer. Anytime she hides and lies about another relationship.....male/female/dog/cat/whatever.... it is inappropriate and does not belong in a MR. If your M can't be based on respect and trust, then what will it be based on?

You said everything she told you were lies.....all lies. So now you are going to believe you are keeping her from having a male friend (who apparently has no qualms about sneaking around to see a M woman)and she was forced to sneak around to be with him....and lie to you and her other friends, in order to keep him as "just a friend"?

If you believe this, you will stop being true to yourself, and you will start compromising your integrity. It may be difficult for you to see at this precise moment, but there are a few things that are more important than staying M to an unfaithful partner.

[Surfer]

SH,

One of the best motivational yet supportive replies I have ever had. Thank you. From what you have said you see someone that basically gets it but needs to round off the edges. I interpret your comments as follows (apologies if I have misread or misquoted - I need to simplify things):

1.This is not my circus and these are not my monkeys.
2.No thanks, I'll stay in this lane.
3.Observe the Chimp - don't be the Chimp (read "the Chimp Paradox again" - a must read for those facing spew BTW)
4."Own your own feelings - don't let others own yours, they have their own, you don't own theirs either"
5.Listen, and shut up.
6.The destination (detachment) is a decision not a place or time
7.As you don't of a single authentic psychic or clairvoyant, stop trying to be one.

Excellent - thank you. Please keep tabs. We all need to be kept on the path if we wobble.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

You know better than this, Surfer. Anytime she hides and lies about another relationship.....male/female/dog/cat/whatever.... it is inappropriate and does not belong in a MR. If your M can't be based on respect and trust, then what will it be based on?

You said everything she told you were lies.....all lies. So now you are going to believe you are keeping her from having a male friend (who apparently has no qualms about sneaking around to see a M woman)and she was forced to sneak around to be with him....and lie to you and her other friends, in order to keep him as "just a friend"?

I do know this, Sandi. Thank you for shaking me awake again. The point here is that whilst she maintains it was just a friend - it was hidden, it was deceitful. A M should not be based on this and she broke my trust. I do not respect that. I want to tell her all of this but I suspect it's not worth it. But when she tells me it's all my fault, I was not there, I didn't care she seems to be trying to deal with her guilt etc, re-write history, project etc. I want to say to her "you had the relationship, not me, you chose this path not me". I know its a fair point, but should I make it again. Perhaps just stay dark for now???? I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Surfer.