I am going to break every DB rule in the books

[Gabs]

I came across this book/website when my wife announced she is leaving me after 30 years of marriage and 3 children (2 still in middle school).

I read the book. I communicated here for a while, but I found it to be too rough and I was often attacked for just asking a question. So I went on with the book and kept to myself.

Almost a year has passed now. My wife is in another house. the kids go back and forth every 7 days. We are still legally married but we only communicate when it is about the kids or money. She is "nice" to me for the most part. She has told me she is going to file the paperwork soon.

I have done everything the book says. I have kept my distance. I have not pursued her. I have been working on myself. I am much more healthy than I was. I eat much better. I go running 3x per week. I am working out with weights. I have been working on my "anger issues." I meditate every day. I have not asked her to come back. I have not told her I love her. Nothing. The only thing I have done in the last 6 months is on her birthday I gave her a plant and a card and a stack of photos that she left behind I thought she would want.

I've done everything the book says, except I guess you could say I haven't really let go.

NOTHING has changed.

Two things in particular have not changed:

She has not indicated anything that she is thinking about changing course.

And nothing has changed about the way I feel about her.

In spite of the fact that I am meeting new people, I am on several dating websites and I have met some beautiful women who are admittedly more compatible with me, I still can't stop thinking about my wife. I have realized that I don't need someone that is more compatible with me. I have discovered what unconditional love is.

I have come a long way. I used to not be able to get out of bed in the morning. I had thoughts of hurting myself. I was barely functional. Now, sometimes I get waves of feeling great.

But I still love her. More than anything in this world.

And I am realizing that this DB technique, while it may have prevented us from hating each other, and probably has been good that I gave her space for a year, is not helping to bring us back together.

I have done much soul searching and I realize that one of the most difficult things through all of this is not being able to communicate honestly with her.

The "act as if" everything is great, and act like I'm happy that this is all happening has been helpful in some regards, except for the fact that I have had to be so silent about my love.

When you have a strong emotion, the strongest emotion you have felt in your life of 50 years, it is very difficult, it is painful, to keep it inside.

And in some ways, it just doesn't seem right. It seems dishonest.

Still, I admit, if I had pursued her and been honest all along, that could have backfired.

But now a year has passed.

I feel strongly that if I never step up to the plate and be honest with her and tell her how much I love her, that it is as if I am just holding the door open for her to go and I never even tried to stop the one thing from happening in my life that I don't want to happen more than anything else.

I don't know if I could live with myself, if all this goes through, the paperwork... and I never once opened my heart to her and told her the truth about how I feel.

Is that was DB is really saying I should do? Just hold the door open?

One thing about our relationship before this happened... one of the key missing components was that I DIDN'T EXPRESS MY LOVE for her. I didn't tell her I love her. I didn't make her feel like I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. She didn't feel loved. SOOOO a part of me feels like she needs to know that I DO love her and I DO want to spend the rest of my life with her. I feel like all this "laying low" and "minimal contact" and "act as if" and holding the door open, has CONFIRMED her feeling that I don't really love her.

I can't let her go without telling her, showing her, that I DO LOVE HER.

At this point I don't know that I have anything to lose, because this DB thing is not working.

I think I can approach her, most likely through a letter, and be honest and tell her the truth, without sounding "needy" without begging. Just being honest. I need to tell her that in spite of the differences we have, I have learned over the last year that I have an eternal unconditional love for her that I didn't know I had before. I need to tell her how I've been working on myself. And how if we are ever together again it would be my #1 priority in life to improve our relationship. She needs to know that if she ever does think about coming back, that things would be different. How and why would she think they would be any different, unless I tell her or show her?

I realize this goes against the DB way 100%.

But after a year of doing the DB thing, I realize that at some point I have to come up to the plate and take my at-bat and swing for the fence. If I don't ever do that, I don't think I will be able to live with myself.
I don't think she will necessarily instantly have a light bulb go off in her head and come running to me. But who knows. At least she'll know how I really feel.

I'm sure I'm going to be attacked for posting this and I'm not sure why I came back here and did it. I guess it's because it all started here for me. And I really do appreciate, there is some very good advice here. If I had not read the book, I probably would have begged her many times over by now and pushed her further away than she is. I do think it is good that time has passed and I kept my distance and we are still on "good terms" and perhaps that has set the stage for my move.

One of my favorite quotes has always been:

"Never let the fear of striking out prevent you from coming up to the plate" --Babe Ruth

I'm doing my warmups now and taking some practice swings....

[Cadet]

I've done everything the book says, except I guess you could say I haven't really let go.

So the one thing you need to do you are NOT doing.

Maybe that should be your next 180.

[Gabs]

Letting go is not something you just "do." When you love someone, you can go through the motions. You can date other people. You can leave hear alone. You can stop pursing her. But you can't just turn off love.

And I'm sorry, but this is something internal to me. As far as she knows, I have let go. She doesn't know how I feel inside. If I had completely let go I don't see how that would affect how things have unfolded.

[sandi2]

Have you tried talking with a DB coach?

[Accuray]

Hi Gabs,

Glad you are back.

I read the book. I communicated here for a while, but I found it to be too rough and I was often attacked for just asking a question. So I went on with the book and kept to myself.

Who was attacking you and in what way? Generally this community is here to help and will offer support and guidance. If you have a problem with the way people were communicating to you before, please explain so that people can avoid doing it again. You're here for support, not to be attacked!

I've done everything the book says, except I guess you could say I haven't really let go.

NOTHING has changed.

There's no guarantee that anything will change. It could be the case that the relationship was so damaged there's nothing that's going to motivate the departing spouse from returning. The departing spouse could find a new relationship and decide it's a better choice for them. The departing spouse may decide that they enjoy being alone more than they enjoyed being together. There's no way for anyone to bend the departing spouse's feelings to their will, and therefore there is no guarantee that anything you do (or don't do) will work, no matter how perfectly executed.

So why bother with the book? The point is that of all the things you *could* do, Michelle and her marriage therapist community have found that these are the *best* things to do based on years of working with couples in crisis. That doesn't guarantee that the approach will work, only that it will have a better chance of working than anything else you might try.

It may be the case that there is simply *nothing* you can do, and in order to find peace you may need to find a way to accept that.

I feel strongly that if I never step up to the plate and be honest with her and tell her how much I love her, that it is as if I am just holding the door open for her to go and I never even tried to stop the one thing from happening in my life that I don't want to happen more than anything else.

Look at your language choice there -- "holding the door open for her". That would seem to imply that you still have some control over what she does, that you could instead of holding the door open, choose to "hold the door closed" and therefore keep her with you. I'm not saying that to be flip or attack you, I'm asking you to really think about it.

Haven't you been abundantly clear with her about how much you love her? Before you read the book, didn't you pour your heart out to her? Haven't you written her letters letting her know how you feel?

**Why do you think that if you tell her again, it will bring her back to you?**

What do you think she owes you?

I never once opened my heart to her and told her the truth about how I feel.

I believe you've opened your heart to her many times and told her the truth about how you feel, but the result hasn't been what you expected or wanted. Your takeaway from that seems to be that you didn't express yourself well enough, and if you only do a better job expressing yourself she will "get it" and fully understand that you love her with all your heart and if she understands that, she will certainly come back to you.

Look, another core tenant of DB is "if what you're doing isn't working do something different"

If you need to pour your heart out and explain your eternal and unconditional love for her in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.

Before you do it, I would just ask you to consider what will happen if you write the best letter of your life, one that would make anyone who reads it tear up over the sheer beauty of the language. What if you write that letter, she reads it, and nothing changes.

What are you going to do then?

Is there any chance that you will then feel you didn't express yourself clearly enough, and need to write another letter?

I guess what I'm asking is "where is the finish line?" At what point do you feel you will trust that she fully understands how you feel and still chooses not to reconcile?

I hate to ask you that question, but I also don't want to see you forever stuck.

If you pour your heart out and nothing changes, what comes next?

Acc

[qt4x11]

Yeah don't do it, I've read success stories where it takes 18+ months for DB to work.

[liono]

Look, I don't know you or what you've been through, but I guarantee you: anything that comes from me or anyone else here that sounds like an attack is, worst case, tough love.

Pretty sure I can safely say we've all been there in one way or another, that person in the corner late at night crying a blubbering mess with snot pouring out your nose wondering how you're going to glue together the broken pieces of your life.

Just want to reflect a couple things back to you I'm reading in your initial post.

First, go to youtube and search for "You Had Me at Hello - Jerry Maguire". Pretty much what you have in mind? I mean it's romantic as hell, and you're right it may work. Or back to the baseball analogy, it's like your coach is telling you to bunt and you're like "but we're never going to win the game that way, I've got to swing for the fences!". Who knows, maybe you're right? But... it's a movie. You seem to be a baseball guy, surely you must know that the "let's throw in the rookie at the last minute to win the pennant" works great as a movie plot. But in real life you get your best guys out there and redouble on discipline right?

On the other hand, in hockey the pull the goalie and play with an empty net. Ok fine, sports analogies suck.


You didn't really say much about what's happened in the last year. The things you mentioned you working on yourself (dealing with anger issues, getting healthier) are no doubt wonderful. But you didn't mention anything at all about actually doing things that make you happier and GAL. Dating websites doesn't count. Have you done any hobbies, done any travel, anything like that?

Also, re: nothing has changed. Know what else hasn't changed? She hasn't filed for D yet. Not saying it's "a sign" but just question yourself: if she was 100% sure that's what she was going to do with absolute conviction about it, why hasn't she?

Other thing: I'm only a couple months since BD, I'm early on here. But that feeling you describe, that voice in your head that says "If only she knew how much she means to me, if I could just explain with the right words, then she would understand..." is right in my head right now all the time. But I tried it. I kept at it the first few weeks, and I guarantee you it just pushes away. Your situation is different, but just realize that feeling in your head is the same as someone right in the thick of dealing with all of this for the first time...

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.....oh my god, I just went back and read your original thread. It is so freakin' chock full of wisdom. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I'M BEGGING YOU GO BACK AND FOLLOW ALL THE ADVICE. (see? did begging you want to make you go do it? didn't, did it? )
Seriously though:
* There is still hope

Baseball analogy #2: you're learning to pitch and you stand and hold the ball the way it feels comfortable. And your coach is just looking at you going "this is wrong this is wrong this is wrong, hold it like this. Stand like this. Move your arm like this". And you try it and it just feels soooooo awkward. You're thinking "this can't be right". You're now throwing slower and with worse accuracy than before. But your coach is telling you it's the right way, and practicing the proper technique will open up WAY more potential than you ever had before.

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Questions for you:
* What have you done to GAL? And I mean seriously GAL? Dating profiles do not count. Moving on to another woman will NOT make you happy. YOU are the only one that can make you happy.
* Have you seen an IC/psyc to talk about possible depression issues? I'm not saying you do or don't. Just some of the things you said in your original thread seem to point that way. Take it from someone who deals with some bad anxiety/depression... (part of my whole sitch). Actually getting REAL help for that, which may or may not include meds, might help. For me it has helped immensely. If nothing else, ruling out complicating issues like that just within yourself would be good.

[bigybiz]

Gabs:

Your honesty is commendable. I empathize with everything you say and feel. I know that when I'm in this as long as you have been - I'm sure I will feel the same way you do.

I too struggle with the full love/emotional component of what is generally accepted here. There are many key elements that I know make perfect sense - once you are able to remove yourself a little. Doing the same thing over again and hoping for different results, etc.

I can certainly see your perspective on the "attacks". I too have found the criticism a little harsh from time to time.

There are many threads I've read where people are ignoring the prevailing wisdom in hopes that a different result will happen.

I have really benefited myself from some of the advice I've received. I do agree with changing things up. Even the smallest thing. You never know where a small pebble will start a landslide.

So if you go to starbucks at work - pack a thermos. If you do your shopping at Walmart - go to Target. The smallest change can really be a confidence booster.

I love the practical and I've really benefited from taking on new tasks, hobbies, etc. And yes my W has noticed changes and it makes her crazy.

So try something new - anything. If you choose to stick with the DB/DR strategy remember that it seems to make sense. Will it work - maybe maybe not.

You have made it this far, you can go the distance.

[Gabs]

Accuray, I appreciate your thoughtful response. I think I need to clarify a couple things.

So why bother with the book? The point is that of all the things you *could* do, Michelle and her marriage therapist community have found that these are the *best* things to do based on years of working with couples in crisis. That doesn't guarantee that the approach will work, only that it will have a better chance of working than anything else you might try.

OK, let me make something clear..... I don't think and never have thought that DB comes with any guarantees. And likewise I have no false illusions that any letter I write or anything I do will make her change her mind. But I DO have a problem with the absolutes that are portrayed here sometimes. I can accept that the "DB way" offers the best advice in general in the vast majority of situations. However it simply is not the case that it is the best advice in every single split up on the planet. That simply is not true. There are some cases, yes, certainly not the majority of cases, where begging works. It worked for me many years ago. No one can say that any certain tactic is ALWAYS the best thing in ALL circumstances. In my case it could that my wife really needs to feel unconditional love from me. I'm not saying that is definitely what's happening, but it is possible. It could even be on a subconscious level, whereas, if you asked her she would say she has no interest in my anymore, but if she really felt the unconditional love from me that I never gave her before, that it would open up something that she doesn't now even realize is there. I'm NOT SAYING that it will happen in my case, but with billions of people in the world, there are many many different ways these things can play out. I think it is shortsighted to say that ANY particular tactic is ALWAYS the best in EVERY single circumstance.

Personally I believe there is subconscious stuff going on in my situation. She left me when our kids were the exact same age as she was when her father left, and that was the most traumatic experience of her life. I have heard that happens a lot.

So again, I do not have delusions that my opening up with her will change anything. And I have never thought that DB was supposed to guarantee anything.

I feel strongly that if I never step up to the plate and be honest with her and tell her how much I love her, that it is as if I am just holding the door open for her to go and I never even tried to stop the one thing from happening in my life that I don't want to happen more than anything else.

Look at your language choice there -- "holding the door open for her". That would seem to imply that you still have some control over what she does, that you could instead of holding the door open, choose to "hold the door closed" and therefore keep her with you. I'm not saying that to be flip or attack you, I'm asking you to really think about it.

you're misinterpreting where I'm coming from. let me try to clarify. No I don't think that how I hold the door will make her go or stay. she is obviously determined to do this. But I do think it sends a signal to her, that I don't really care if she takes off or not.

let me explain. she told my best friend that believes we will not get back together because *I* would find someone else quickly. that says A LOT to me. It shows that she thinks I didn't want to be with her in the first place, which, quite honestly, I wasn't really sure about before this all happened. SO, if I hold the door open, she is thinking, "see I was right. he didn't really want to be with me anyway. he's not resisting this at all."

Let me simplify.

Boy meets girl. Boy and girl have a relationship. Boy is kinda lousy at expressing love, or even feeling it. Girl doesn't think boy really loves her. Girl needs to feel loved. Girl leaves boy. Boy holds the door open. Girl says, "see, he didn't love me." I'm gonna find someone who really loves me.

Now try this one on.

Boy meets girl. Boy and girl have a relationship. Boy is lousy at feeling and expressing love. Girl needs to feel loved. Girl leaves boy. Boy holds the door open but once she leaves, he realizes that he does love her. Boy tells her. Boy shows her. Girl realizes boy does love her. Main reason girl left is now gone. Does she come back? I don't know but that explains in a simple way some of my thoughts about this.

Haven't you been abundantly clear with her about how much you love her? Before you read the book, didn't you pour your heart out to her? Haven't you written her letters letting her know how you feel?

NO WAY!! I have not done that AT ALL. In the last year, I have written maybe 2 letters to her. In one, I went to great length to apologize to her for the things I, for the first time, realized I was doing wrong. The only other "letter" was on our anniversary and it was just a card and I said I sincerely regretted doing anything that made her want to leave me.

that is very different than "being abundantly clear about how much I love her. I have never, not even once, said "I love you." I have not told her I miss her, that I care about her. there are MANY things along these lines that I have not said to her even once. It is a far cry from being "abundantly clear about how much I love her" because the "amount" that I love her is quite a lot and I have done nothing whatsoever to even try to describe it.

**Why do you think that if you tell her again, it will bring her back to you?**

First, it would not be "again" because I have not said it at all. But more importantly, I want to be clear, I DON"T necessarily think it will bring her back to me. I am not delusional. Do I think it's possible, that if she knows I still love her after all this time, and I haven't gone off with someone else, that it would change the way she thinks of me, even just a little bit? And do I think that if she was thinking differently, that over time, things could change? Yes I do think that's POSSIBLE. Possible, not a guarantee. Not even close.

What do you think she owes you?

now that is a very different question. and it has not been discussed here at all in my case. I can tell you I DO feel like she owes me something. her departure was abrupt. we were going to counseling but she had not mentioned thinking about leaving in 2 years. I have talked to many people, and I know this is not always the case, but many people had clear warnings. Like going to the counselor and saying "I'm going to leave you if you don't do ____." My wife said nothing like that. In fact she told me just a few weeks before she left that she was VERY happy. She grabbed me by the shoulders and looked me in the eye like she had never done in 30 years and told me she loved me very deeply and she was so happy that we were together and she knew it would work out. Then 5 weeks later she dropped the bomb. So yes I do think she owes me something. I don't think that was honorable. She should have been clear and let me know she was thinking about it.

I have a friend who is on the verge of splitting up with her husband. She has been telling him for MONTHS now, that she is going to do it. She has been very clear about why she wants to go and what he needs to do to get her to stay. she told him she has gone to see a lawyer. I got NONE of that. So if you ask me if she owes me anything, the answer is yes. After 30 years, I could have been giving a clear warning, even just one simple statement like "I'm thinking about leaving."

If you need to pour your heart out and explain your eternal and unconditional love for her in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.

that is part of why I need to do this. part of it is for ME. I need to feel like I did everything I could and left no stone unturned. DB does not give me that feeling. I realize it may be the best tactic in the vast majority of cases, even if it doesn't give me that feeling. BUT I need, for myself, to do something that gives me that feeling, like I tried EVERYTHING.

Before you do it, I would just ask you to consider what will happen if you write the best letter of your life, one that would make anyone who reads it tear up over the sheer beauty of the language. What if you write that letter, she reads it, and nothing changes. What are you going to do then?

I have thought about that. the answer is I will do the same thing I am doing now. it will not change anything. But I will know that I tried and I will know that she knows how I feel.

Is there any chance that you will then feel you didn't express yourself clearly enough, and need to write another letter?

No. This letter will be THE letter. There will be no more letter to write after this. I am a writer. I am good at expressing myself. I am good at reaching into someones heart through words. If I can get her to read this letter, there will be no need to write another one. I will say that I am also a musician and there are some songs I'm writing that are about her and will eventually be out there on Youtube for her to hear if she chooses, or if she comes to one of my shows, and they will serve a similar purpose as the letter, but I will not need to write another letter after this. Again, I have yet to even say "I love you." I think you believe I have already done all this but I really haven't. I have been holding it all back. Holding it all inside, except to a few close friends.

[Gabs]

Again thank you all for the thoughtful responses. People are asking about my GAL and I want to respond.

there are some things I do. I am in a band and we practice every week and we have some gigs. It is like therapy to me. I go out to see music every once in a while with my friends. Have I taken up something completely new that takes up lots of time? No. but I really don't have lots of time. Keeping up with the housework, being the only adult here, is practically a full time job in itself, and I have two other jobs.

In regards to dating, how it relates to GAL, and the question of being my own source of happiness....

A few people have said that going on dating sites "doesn't count" as GAL. Or that finding someone else won't make me happy, only I can make myself happy. I have a problem with that. I have heard it a lot on this site and others. but it simply is not true. I know more than one person who found happiness when they found another partner. what's wrong with that? it does happen. Really it does. in my case, I feel better when I talk with or date other women. it reminds me that i'm not such a horrible person. women are interested in me! some of them are beautiful! some of them have more things in common with me that my wife! It brings me out of my sadness sometimes, to talk with an interesting woman and see she is interested in me.

I can feel great about myself. I know I'm a good person. I can go for a 10 mile run and feel wonderful and feel a wave of awesomeness that I can't describe. Is that being my own source of happiness? i don't know. But I do know that it doesn't change the fact that I want my wife and my family back. And even though I do feel that happiness sometimes, I always come back to sadness at some point again because the people I love the most are not with me.

Feeling happy and feeling great about myself does not make me want to let go. The times that I get close to really "letting go" are the times when I realize that there are other women out there, and I just might end up with someone I really "groove" with. Maybe even more than my wife.

I don't think it's a bad thing to get happiness from another person. I don't think that only I can make myself happy. Relationships are a source of happiness for billions of people on this planet. And for many of them, it lasts a lifetime. If a woman walked into my life right now that had all the things on my list that I want in a woman, that would make me happy. That is not a bad thing. I would probably let go of my wife at that point. I am open to that happening. I invite it.

There are many people who are sad when their spouse leaves, and become happy again when they find someone else. This is not unusual or a bad thing. I have seen it.

I understand that this is a good time for me to work on myself and to find some happiness on my own. I'm doing that. For me, with the little free time I have, I'd rather go for a cup of coffee or a hike with a new interesting woman, than take up a new hobby like contra dancing. I think it counts as GAL when I meet new women.