Does my story belong here now?

[someguy1233]

I've been to the site on and off numerous times over the years always dead set to save my marriage. This time, It's Different.

I've certainly had a part in the numerous issues my relationship has had over the last decade, but I've come to the realization but there probably is no pleasing my wife. We have been on and off again more times than I can possibly remember. Each time I fight to keep the relationship, telling myself it's for the kids or it's the best thing. The problem is I think I'm really just too scared to go at this alone without someone by my side.

We had recently been planning major life changes including shopping for a new home. When she again dropped the bomb that she didn't want to be with me. I think this was roughly the third bomb in the last year alone. For the first time ever I blew up. I told her I deserve better. I told her I won't be treated this way. I told her I was tired of my feelings being dismissed and brushed aside with no regard. I told her this was the last time and that I was done.

I went to our regularly scheduled marriage counseling session. She declined my invite to come with. The counselor let me know that was great for me to come along and that she supports no matter what I decide. However she said some of the things that life has said to me during our sessions is the most hurtful things that she has ever heard someone say sitting on that couch. That was a bit of an eye-opener.

It's been about a week since our big blow up. We've been avoiding each other and taking turns being with the kids. I seem to bounce between excitement for what the future could bring Kama our relationship possibly with someone that actually values me as an equal partner. But then I bounce to sadness. I'm sad for the kids. They're young. I post this with tears but they won't know what is like have their mom and dad together. To be shipped between houses because at least we both want a strong part of our kids lives. Then I become fearful. Fearful because I don't have a lot of friends and I don't know how to make more. I have social anxiety. They're not crippling but I definitely relied on my wife in social situations. I'm not quite sure how to go about things without her.

I've been avoiding the conversation of how to proceed with divorce. We briefly discussed mediation as we both want to try to remain amicable for the sake of the kids. I have a very hard time talking about it. I've been avoiding it mostly because I don't think I'm ready to come to terms with this new reality. I feel like I know what needs to be done but I'm too scared to do it. When a counselor tells you you are a victim if not physical, but emotional abuse, the relationship isn't right. And I don't know that there's anything I could do or could have done to fix it.

[someguy1233]

Sorry for the typos and a few confusing sentences. I'm using speech to text and I thought the Forum would let me edit the post to correct them.

[kml]

However she said some of the things that wife has said to me during our sessions is the most hurtful things that she has ever heard someone say sitting on that couch. That was a bit of an eye-opener.

That's a pretty powerful - and uncommon - thing for a therapist to say, so I think it's highly significant.

If you were to ask your friends and family if they agree with that assessment, what would they say? Have you asked? I'm betting they've all seen it.

The big question is - why did you put up with her behavior for so long. I understand about standing for your marriage because of the kids. But was she like this before you married? Before the kids? Do you have any understanding of what her issues are? Your kids are little, has she has postpartum depression? Does she have a mental health issue or addiction? Do you? Were you repeating an abusive relationship from your childhood? What were you parents like?

Sometimes we really need to figure out these issues of ours, to prevent us from making the same mistakes in future relationships. And really, figuring out how better to handle the relationship with your wife is going to be of importance in a divorce, since you will be co-parenting for a long time.

As for your social anxiety - was that always present, or did it develop after being in this abusive relationship? why do you think you struggle socially? (For some it's a matter of poor self-esteem. For others it's the result of poor social skills - for instance, one of my sons has very mild Asperger's syndrome - he's friendly and extroverted, but because he stands too close, talks too loud, is too effusive about nerdy topics - the world is a confusing place where he encounters a lot of rejection for reasons he didn't understand. This too can lead to social anxiety. )

One challenge after divorce is reconstructing a circle of friends, as few of us get to keep all our married friends. Participating in activities you love can be a good low-pressure way to develop friendships.

My ex-husband was very extroverted and picky about who he hung out with, so over the course of the marriage most of our friendships ended up being "his" friends. I moved after our divorce and lost touch with most of those people, but really didn't miss them. I started learning to play the drums in an adult "school of rock" kind of class. I met many great friends there and have been playing in a band with the same two guys for 5 years, they're like brothers to me.

This sounds terrible, but divorce can be an opportunity to really let go of your preconceived notions about yourself and embark on some serious self-improvement. And while it's sad not to have your kids every day, it also gives you some days when you are free to pursue those interests.

I agree, divorce is terrible for kids, but if she's verbally abusive, it's also not good for them to grow up seeing that sick relationship as an example.

((((((hugs))))))

[someguy1233]

I'm going to respond inline with your questions. But first, THANK YOU for the thoughtful post. I really appreciate it. I've been thinking about some of your questions for a while now.

However she said some of the things that wife has said to me during our sessions is the most hurtful things that she has ever heard someone say sitting on that couch. That was a bit of an eye-opener.

That's a pretty powerful - and uncommon - thing for a therapist to say, so I think it's highly significant.

If you were to ask your friends and family if they agree with that assessment, what would they say? Have you asked? I'm betting they've all seen it.

The marriage counselor called it emotional abuse. This is the same label my mom used years ago. My wife on more than one occasion has told me she doesn't love me, doesn't know why we keep getting back together, that she doesn't find me attractive (I'm NOT a bad looking dude!), that she doesn't care to give me what I need in a relationship.... then typically a few weeks later she'd do a 180 and come right back to the relationship.

The big question is - why did you put up with her behavior for so long. I understand about standing for your marriage because of the kids. But was she like this before you married? Before the kids? Do you have any understanding of what her issues are? Your kids are little, has she has postpartum depression? Does she have a mental health issue or addiction? Do you? Were you repeating an abusive relationship from your childhood? What were you parents like?

Sometimes we really need to figure out these issues of ours, to prevent us from making the same mistakes in future relationships. And really, figuring out how better to handle the relationship with your wife is going to be of importance in a divorce, since you will be co-parenting for a long time.

I'm not lying when I say I don't know how many times our relationship has been on and off. It was that way before we got married and continued after marriage. When I met her I was depressed and felt like I had very little self-worth. I've since overcome this and feel that I am amazing, however I still have social anxieties that probably stem from the years of bullying from my youth.

It's hard for me to put a finger on her issues. She seems to be a searcher. She's always searching for something and doesn't hesitate to make major changes. Over the years I've witnessed it in her jobs, friendships, vehicles, etc. If she decides she doesn't like something, or that something else could be better, she jumps. I'm the polar opposite. I evaluate and research before I make any decision.

As for your social anxiety - was that always present, or did it develop after being in this abusive relationship? why do you think you struggle socially? (For some it's a matter of poor self-esteem. For others it's the result of poor social skills - for instance, one of my sons has very mild Asperger's syndrome - he's friendly and extroverted, but because he stands too close, talks too loud, is too effusive about nerdy topics - the world is a confusing place where he encounters a lot of rejection for reasons he didn't understand. This too can lead to social anxiety. )

My social anxiety definitely stems from years of abuse/bullying throughout my youth. I received the brunt of the bullying throughout my elementary school years. By the time I reach junior/senior high I'd learned to mostly keep to myself. It's been many years now and I've succeed professionally but I've failed to make any new friendships in the last decade. I struggle with conversation. I'm willing to strike up a conversation with almost anyone, but I can never think of anything to say. Conversations are brief and quickly become awkward. This makes it really difficult to make it past the first interaction with someone.

One challenge after divorce is reconstructing a circle of friends, as few of us get to keep all our married friends. Participating in activities you love can be a good low-pressure way to develop friendships.

I've read about this and have started putting together a list of activities I'd like to pursue. Unfortunately I feel like I can't make any decisions to move forward with them until our finances are figured out. Activities include, picking up the guitar again (I want to play in a crappy cover-band!), learn to work on cars, possibly joining a shooting club (if finances allow), join a gym rather than working out at home alone.

My ex-husband was very extroverted and picky about who he hung out with, so over the course of the marriage most of our friendships ended up being "his" friends. I moved after our divorce and lost touch with most of those people, but really didn't miss them. I started learning to play the drums in an adult "school of rock" kind of class. I met many great friends there and have been playing in a band with the same two guys for 5 years, they're like brothers to me.

This sounds terrible, but divorce can be an opportunity to really let go of your preconceived notions about yourself and embark on some serious self-improvement. And while it's sad not to have your kids every day, it also gives you some days when you are free to pursue those interests.

That sounds amazing! I didn't even know there were classes like that. What a fun way to grow personally!

This opportunity for growth is the one thing that excites me.... and terrifies me at the same time.

I agree, divorce is terrible for kids, but if she's verbally abusive, it's also not good for them to grow up seeing that sick relationship as an example.

((((((hugs))))))

I keep trying to tell myself this. Our oldest is now 5. I'm sure he notices something isn't right but he can't figure it out. The kids are the part of this that hold me back the most. I really don't want to hurt them. I don't want them to grow up being shuffled between houses. But then I briefly dream about a relationship with someone that is an equal. Someone that would value and work on the relationship even half as much as I'm capable of. That would be an amazing example to show the kids. I just don't know how to get there.

[kml]

You're a good man. I relate to part of your story. My ex wobbled about our relationship when we were dating, then slept with an old girlfriend the night before our wedding. When I discovered this 6 months into the marriage, I asked him to leave. He pleaded and I ended up working through it with him.
I put it down to youthful nerves on his part. I chose to take the chance on staying in the relationship. But what I didn't realize at the time, as we moved forward with having a family, was that I wasn't the only one taking a risk. I also subjected my kids to that risk.

When my ex had an affair the kids were preteens and teens. I felt so guilty about the pain they experienced. I DBd the heck out of my marriage and we reconciled. The next few years were good, but eventually he hit a MLC at fifty and left for good.

Both you and I ignored red flags we should have paid attention to early in the relationship, and sadly our kids pay a price. But staying in an abusive relationship with your wife is not a tenable position either. Your kids need to see a healthier relationship model as they grow up.

. I'd learned to mostly keep to myself. It's been many years now and I've succeed professionally but I've failed to make any new friendships in the last decade. I struggle with conversation. I'm willing to strike up a conversation with almost anyone, but I can never think of anything to say. Conversations are brief and quickly become awkward. This makes it really difficult to make it past the first interaction with someone.

I'm really sorry that you were bullied. This probably explains why you were so willing to endure such poor treatment from your wife. The challenge for you is to learn how to develop and maintain friendships.

You can do this. Get involved in activities that bring you into contact with people with shared interests. Practice that guitar and then find a class like I did, or find like minded people to jam with on Craigslist. I started learning to play the drums at 53 when my husband left. I'm turning 60 this week but I don't feel bad about it at all, because I've played 3 gigs in the last 6 weeks with my pop-punk cover band, and we rocked! I may be a middle aged mom but I'm rockin and feel about 25!

You may find, like I did, that after losing your spouse, there just wasn't much to be afraid of. I felt like the worst had already happened. Next to that, things like a date not working out or risking playing in public just paled in comparison.

One thing I know, my kids have benefited from seeing me pick myself up and create a new life... It let them know that they too could survive the divorce.

You can do this. Work on yourself, on having healthy boundaries, and on making new friends. Develop new interests and grow yourself a great new life.

[someguy1233]

Thanks, KML. I definitely ignored lots of red flags. Perhaps it's easier to tell myself it's not so bad... dealing with the known is easier than moving towards the unknown.

I've really starated exercising more. I have to convince myself to do it, but it gives me a great high for a few hours afterwards!

Lasthe night when I got home from work she was there with the kids and a friend. She was mean and nasty towards me (I'm inclined to use a much more harsh word, but I'll be nice). It really made me angry. Two weeks ago we were hugging. Now she's treating me like the enemy when I haven't done anything. I let her stew in her hatred and left the house to go out with my sister.

I also noticed she got her hair done, changed her makeup, and got new clothes that reveal a lot more.... she looked amazing. My heart dropped when I saw her. But of course I kept it to myself and left.

I'm focusing on making today a better day. It's a day for the kids and I to hang out.

I haven't made any more steps to file for divorce... still paralyzed with fear.

[SunnyB]

someguy, I just wanted to stop by and say hi. I can relate to a lot of your story, maybe we all can. I'll try to post specifics at another point, but right now I want to encourage you to go our and GAL, make some new friends. I realized pretty early on after BD that I was going to need new friends, and I put a lot of effort into it. The group that I have found and settled in with have been my sanity in many ways. They don't know Mr P, they don't care, they just accept me for who I am now, and it's great. Getting out there doesn't have to involve a lot of money, don't use finances as an excuse. And I agree with klm about the benefit on my kids, my girls have both made comments about how much fuller and richer my life is now. Before BD, I was living in a tiny little box that I allowed Mr P to keep me in. I would never want my kids living that way and now they see me having a real life. Mom's setting a good example.

[someguy1233]

someguy, I just wanted to stop by and say hi. I can relate to a lot of your story, maybe we all can. I'll try to post specifics at another point, but right now I want to encourage you to go our and GAL, make some new friends. I realized pretty early on after BD that I was going to need new friends, and I put a lot of effort into it. The group that I have found and settled in with have been my sanity in many ways. They don't know Mr P, they don't care, they just accept me for who I am now, and it's great. Getting out there doesn't have to involve a lot of money, don't use finances as an excuse. And I agree with klm about the benefit on my kids, my girls have both made comments about how much fuller and richer my life is now. Before BD, I was living in a tiny little box that I allowed Mr P to keep me in. I would never want my kids living that way and now they see me having a real life. Mom's setting a good example.

I'm really struggling with making friends. I don't know where to turn. I searched through all the meetups in my area and none of them interest me. Everyone I know is in that phase of their life married with young kids... I'm not sure where to turn.

[someguy1233]

My wife emailed me again for the contact information for the tenant that is renting a property we own. I told her that we still hadn't talked about what's going to happen since the last time she sent that request. She agreed to talk tonight and said she wasn't sure what was going to happen but she needed space and somewhere else to live. She said she wasn't running out to file papers.

I wasn't sure how the talk was going to go. In the back of my mind I told myself I needed to just end it.

We spoke briefly about where we would each live and then it turned into a disagreement about who would pay for daycare for the kids if we separated our finances. I spoke calmly but she became angry and started to spin my words and the situation. It was the same tactic she's used against me during every disagreement over the years. I felt like my feelings and words were being completely disregarded. She also made threats such as, "oh! I guess my mom was right! You are going to make this ugly!"

It was right about that moment that something clicked. I realized that this behavior of hers has always been there. I've always been made to feel disregarded, unheard, and the bad guy. I hate to say it, but I don't know if that behavior would ever change, no matter how much I wish it could. I can't keep being treated this way.

I told her I was done. I said I wanted to hire a mediator and file.

She didn't even seem surprised. We spoke further about shared custody, living arrangements, and splitting assets. We ended up coming to agreements on almost everything.

She's not doing well. She's thin. She's emotional. She's hurting. But there's nothing I can do for her... I've tried for all these years.

I've been mostly calm with little emotion the last few weeks. It just came rushing back. I look at this house, the pictures of the kids, the decorations... everything is a reminder of a life I tried so hard to build. I can't stop crying. I suddenly feel alone.

I feel like somehow she was still my unfaithful rock... even over the last couple weeks. That strength walked out the door with her.

God I hope I'm doing the right thing. Please.

[someguy1233]

The last few days have been really hard. I felt pretty confident when I told her I was done and wanted to file. I lost my confidence as soon as she left an it hasn't returned.

She sent a notice to vacant to the renter. She found registration information for school for S5 in that neighborhood. She changed back to her maiden name on Facebook.
She was at the house with the kids and I for a bit yesterday. She even made comments about little things around the house that used to bother me... she'd say, "we'll, pretty soon you can do whatever you want because I'll be out."

It's hurts. There are moments where I just want to call her and beg for this madness to end. But then where would I be...

On another note, I've been exercising more than I ever have. Unfortunately I've also stayed out too late the last couple nights. It's so hard to get a life, get sleep, work, and take care of the boys. I don't know what I'm going to do as a single dad with two young boys.