My first post - please be nice.

[collin]

I am so mad right now. She volunteered me to go pick up 2 foster dogs tomorrow. She asked if I would and I never answered yes or no. I asked her where they were going and she said "with me". I replied back with "glad i can be of assistance to you". I really want to be like you do realize you're leaving me right, go get them yourself!

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Chances are busting her and confronting her won't change anything. Chances are going to the pastor and telling him (and then having a meeting with her) also won't change anything. More likely than not...at this point...she'll continue the affair regardless of getting caught.

Collins' obligation is merely to speak the Truth. He must hold her accountable for her sins towards him and God by pointing them out and asking her to stop. He can't judge or condemn her but he is responsible for letting her know he is aware she has a huge plank in her eye and she needs to remove it. If she refuses....it's his responsibility to speak to his/their pastor who SHOULD (they don't always unfortunately) bring the wife in for a serious talk. She should also be suspended from any leadership positions.

Whether his wife removes the plank or not isn't his obligation. She's responsible for that. He only must answer for his failure to cleave to his wife and speak his Truth to her (whether she agrees or not).

Although we must never pass judgment on anyone, because we do not know their heart or all of the hidden reasons behind their actions (she may be mentally ill), we must always bear witness to the Truth revealed by Christ, because it is that Truth which will set all of us free from judgment ( John 8:32). We have all fallen short of the Truth from time to time in our lives but adultery is a big one and who else is more responsible for helping his wife understand God’s will is NOT for her to pursue this route than her husband such that she will be better able to stand before Him at the final judgment. Christian exposure and church discipline is an act of charity, not cruelty and not punishment.

If she doesn't come around immediately...God should continue to work on her heart and her conscience. A true Christian can only deny His word for so long.


btw...busting her, confronting her and discussing this with your pastor soon also leaves open the possibility that maybe you can get her to choose to stop this destructive behavior BEFORE she actually has sex with the guy. Earlier today I speculated that because she wanted to have friend zone sex with you the other day might be an good indication she isn't sleeping with OM .....YET. Emotional affairs are hard enough to overcome....but stopping it before it goes physical (and into adulterous) would be a huge blessing. Conflict avoiding might mean you miss this opportunity to potentially stop this before it crosses that line.

[1313]

I am so mad right now. She volunteered me to go pick up 2 foster dogs tomorrow. She asked if I would and I never answered yes or no. I asked her where they were going and she said "with me". I replied back with "glad i can be of assistance to you". I really want to be like you do realize you're leaving me right, go get them yourself!

Don't beat yourself up. It took me well over a month to stop doing these things for the WW. But, you've got to stop. She's using you just the way Sandi2 has said so many times. She will continue to cake eat at her pleasure.

But you've got to detach. You've got to let her start to learn if she makes promises for somebody that's not there - she's left holding the bag.

[broke]

I wish you would get involved in the debate because you are a great case study in why finding out the truth once and for all independently from simply asking and trusting your "separating spouse" is so important. I'm not looking to trigger you but think back to all those days and nights you were trying to say and do just the right thing to understand and change your situation. Think back to having to sit there and explain to your children how their mother and father still love them and each other but are just going to separate for awhile and hopefully not divorce. How if you'd only known the truth you would have handled things so much differently and not just let your ex-husband ease himself gently out of your life while you were forced to beg and watch appeasing his delusions at every turn while being lied to to your face.

The reason I don't want to jump into the fray is because I think it is a personal choice - some people want to know while others really don't. I think others would prefer that they never knew and the A just ended (I have a friend like this). I wanted to know because of all the turmoil he was putting me through at the beginning. But I want to caution Collin that I thought 2 things: 1. that I could just walk away knowing he cheated because that is a deal breaker for me (so I thought) and 2) I thought he would leave her and come back to me once the secret was out (he didn't). So, Collin has to be prepared for whatever consequences come with snooping. Also, my H and I are nowhere near reconciling - I would hate to give advice that would be counterproductive to Collin be able to repair his M. I would never want to be responsible for pushing him further toward D.

That's not to mention the torture of knowing but not knowing.

I chose to snoop but it really didn't help or hurt my situation until I told the OW's H. Then, my H filed and bought a home for himself. Knowing made me extremely angry and it did help some that I knew that was real reason the M was in trouble (although I am responsible for 50% of the demise of the M - he can take blame for taking us off the cliff for the A). But, in the end, I knew I still wanted to reconcile if he was remorseful. He isn't. So, didn't change much for me in the long run.

I hope you aren't keeping his secrets anymore and your children know the truth about their father and his paramour....lest they end up walking in his footsteps. Family secrets have a way of repeating themselves generationally.

Lol - the reason the H got busted is because my sons say an "I love you" text from the OW. Even though H lied his way out of it, my sons don't believe him. They hate the OW. Our family and friends know. Although I am not sure I recommend going and telling the world about the PA. That is also a choice. I think it will make it harder for H to get over his pride (he won't want to admit the D happened because of A - he wants to follow through to show we had problems anyway and that we still divorced). Also, it will be hard for me to take him back because I told everyone. I have pride, too.

Another reason you should be a proponent of Collin (and all BS's) simply investigating and ascertaining whether their spouse is or is not cheating is due to the fact you probably still don't know the full extent of what happened. Sure you busted him eventually...but it's not like he told you everything (or if he says he did...that you believe him). The best time to get the full honest truth about your spouses infidelity is doing so yourself with some good spy gadgets WHILE IT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING. Again...snooping forever where you are trying to monitor the affair is counterproductive. I'm not advocating that. Just hurry up and bust them and then fight for your marriage honestly.

I don't believe anything my H says. The little I know came from bits and pieces that I got from OW's H when I gave him the news and what little my H admitted to. He is a liar and a cheater - I believe nothing and won't until we get in front of counselor. Otherwise, I hired a very good L to protect my interests. Just stinks he's so expensive.

Finally....some spouse divorce simply because the wayward doesn't think the betrayed spouse would ever forgive them if they knew the truth and/or they know that recovery without the truth is impossible and they refuse to disclose their secret. Simply busting the secret affair and dealing with the situation at hand (because deny all you want the situation is what it is) makes the chances of recovery 10, 20....100 times more likely.

Even though I know my H was having a PA, when I was pursuing him for reconciliation, he still said I would never forgive him. He repeated over and over again that he knows me better than I know myself and I would never forgive him. He may be right, but I'd like the chance to try.

Collin's wife may very well be keeping it a secret because her love interest is married too. She's maybe more scared he will get busted (and end the affair) versus concern for herself.

My H was definitely more concerned about his OW's H finding out than me. This may very well be true. Hopefully, with all the information I supplied here, Collin can make an informed decision. He an also reach out to me with any questions and I am happy to answer them.

[1313]

broke,
not to hijack collin's thread - but one thing I never got out of my W was an admission - not a straight-up one anyway. She denied it at every point, from the first ILYBINILWY to the BD. Even in counseling (which wasn't to do anything but tell me there was no chance) she told the counselor there was no A.

Yet, the text messages I found made it pretty clear - even if no smoking gun other than the fact she lied about her whereabouts and the texts were far friendlier than anything between the 2 of us.

The last day I talked to her I asked her to end it - and she laughed, telling me she was free and clear of me now that she filed for D and we were separated - besides it was none of my business. She was almost shocked when I told her I was waiting to be served and hadn't been - apparently she had it sent in the mail and then stuck it in the mailbox at my Mother's. My Mother promptly lost it. Maybe a momentary twinge of guilt that her "reason" was null and void.

Does that mean it was an EA that shifted to a PA once she thought she was "morally" free of me with a legal separation? Who knows. That doesn't explain a possible 2 weeks in Italy with the OM - but I've never pursued proof on that either.

Anyway, after I printed out a little love letter from her old email archive I've never heard anything since - I don't need to. Any A is bad, and I think an EA is far worse as it will only lead to a stable PA.

My W cheated on me before we were married, and I forgave her. Friends said I'd never be able to trust her again - they were wrong. Perhaps what they meant is I should never trust her again?

In collin's case - it sounds as if it's well worth finding out as it will make a huge difference because of his state's laws. CA being no-fault stinks, but that's where our society has taken us.

Collin, I'd check phone records, check texts - whatever you can lay your hands on. I do know there are programs out there that help in tracking on the computer, but I don't know much about those. I'm sure folks here could give you some pointers. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes at this point my friend.

broke - I do know that kids are a lot more in tune with what's going on with the parents than a lot give them credit for. Even if they don't outright see a message, they know something isn't right. Something is going on. I knew it when I was 10 with my Father.

I don't know if you talk to them about it - or leave them out of it until you've got something concrete to discuss with them. But I certainly don't see how you can't have an age appropriate discussion with them. IMHO deception on any level will just lead to problems down the road.

[CWOL]

Even though I know my H was having a PA, when I was pursuing him for reconciliation, he still said I would never forgive him. He repeated over and over again that he knows me better than I know myself and I would never forgive him. He may be right, but I'd like the chance to try.

My WW (and MIL) had the same hangup about reconciliation. They think that I will never forgive her (never mind I did that 17 years ago). What do you think would be the right answer to tell them? She only has an EA with the OM, as best as I can tell (and I snooped quite a bit).

[broke]

In collin's case - it sounds as if it's well worth finding out as it will make a huge difference because of his state's laws. CA being no-fault stinks, but that's where our society has taken us.

broke - I do know that kids are a lot more in tune with what's going on with the parents than a lot give them credit for. Even if they don't outright see a message, they know something isn't right. Something is going on. I knew it when I was 10 with my Father.

I don't know if you talk to them about it - or leave them out of it until you've got something concrete to discuss with them. But I certainly don't see how you can't have an age appropriate discussion with them. IMHO deception on any level will just lead to problems down the road.

1313 - I agree that the laws in Collin's state may help him. In our old home state, it would've helped me, too. Not here in my new state. Collin should just be the one to make the decision.

My kids have been told that their dad had an inappropriate relationship with a woman who isn't their mother. They ask me about once a month if he's cheating and I refer them to their father. The kids counselor recommended I say that because if I say I believe he's cheating then I look like the bad guy (because he lied to them and I don't believe him). But they don't believe him. It's really a shame.

[broke]

CWOL - that is a tough one. What I said was "you'd be surprised what I could do for my family". But that didn't move him. Since I haven't had the opportunity to reconcile or forgive, I'm not sure what advice to give. I'm sorry. My IC did recommend a book about "after the A". Maybe that would help.

[CWOL]

CWOL - that is a tough one. What I said was "you'd be surprised what I could do for my family". But that didn't move him. Since I haven't had the opportunity to reconcile or forgive, I'm not sure what advice to give. I'm sorry. My IC did recommend a book about "after the A". Maybe that would help.

Thanks. I don't think there is a "correct" answer. The true answer is probably going to have to be passage of time.
For WW to discover for herself what life is like outside of marriage as well as myself.

[Pink17]

Hi Collin,

I read the posts here and there is a lot of discussion about and A and the perspectives about how to handle it. But what struck me the most is that Collin rarely posts anything about it.

What is going on in this thread???

Collin, you need to post often and all the folks here can give you some input and opinions of how to go about your crisis, otherwise you are just getting opinions that may not even be what you need or want to hear right now.

To be able to help in any direction you want to take your sitch, we all need to hear what is really going on.

For instance we know:

1. Your wife is tired of a selfish H and is leaving you because of that.
2. You love, and always loved your wife but never walked too steps closer and let her know that by words or actions.
3. She said she has no A and wants to live her single life and date.
4. You get mad at her and then get mad at yourself for doing things that makes you mad at her.

What is the exact point here ????

IMO, knowing is good because you won't feel like in denial or something like a lose screw in your head. Going in circles trying to figure it out why, why, why. But, for many LBS, including Christians, it does not change what you need to do for yourself.

What about looking at the steps you need to take for yourself, independent of her having an A or not?

First, and most important, you need to post here. Detail your point of view, your history, what is going on now, kind of contact, how was life 5 years ago, how it deteriorate, things you want to change in yourself, your GAL, your situation if she file for D, and so on.

Collin, all these folks are talking to each other and you are just reading it. How about writing it all and then you will get the advice you can benefit the best in your case?

DB is not to just use some tricks to get your spouse back, it is a direction to make yourself better and in a way to attract your spouse back because they see "by your actions" that you are someone worthy to give a chance and try again.

You said you took your M for granted and regret it. Don't take your chance to change and be a better you for granted, you may well be crying about it later.

I hope I did not offend you with my words, but I really believe that you need to step forward and start posting.

Pink