Ugghhh, have I mentioned this is hard?

[rich4j]

Hopefully she follows your lead. Maybe if she sees you doing this she will follow.

That is what I would try.

It will be hard to for her to GAL...set an example.

As far as the phone thing, you either need to go for it and get it out there so its in the open good or bad or bury it. Being in the middle will eat you alive....

[Chris82]

Hang in there..

I am in the same position as you. Fill your time with your children and making changes in your life for you. I deal with the fact that my W is so cold to me on the phone and it's painful to think of her bubbly and laughing with someone else. But the proof if insignificant. If she hasn't agreed to cease coms with the OM and she isn't making an attempt to make you feel loved and a priority again, I'd take anything she says with a grain of salt.

It's good to hear you're venturing back to church. I would warn you though, do it for you. Spirituality can make you do some things that might set you back in your progress if you aren't careful.

My pastor and I sat and spoke the other day and he advised me to "love my wife through her struggles." I know that being too friendly with her and giving her the feeling that I will always be there could be damaging. I learned after praying for her that that actually meant loving her as God loves us all and praying for her... but from afar.

You should focus on making the changes in your life that God sees fit to make YOU a better man for your LIFE. That is the ONLY sure fire win you'll be guaranteed out of this. Put your faith in God and He will use you how he sees fit and it will be good.

She might see this.. and It may affect her. But remember, you aren't dealing with a woman that wants anything to do with church right now. My W would avoid a pastor like a plague right now and has made it clear. They can run from their problems with us.. But they can't run from the deep feeling they know inside of their affair being wrong.

Work on you man.. You are the one with the moral upper hand.. Flex it, but do it to sharpen yourself as a man in becoming the best you you can even imagine. Good luck!

[ARose]

You can't GET your W to do anything, but as Rich said maybe she will follow your lead. That is what I am hoping. If she mentions something, like maybe the women in the neighborhood are playing bunco, then jump on it and say "I've got the kids that night, sounds fun for you." But I don't think you could suggest anything.

[Free]

That is a great plan, if your wife buys into it.
Realizing that only YOU can make you happy is the first step to a better relationship. A spouse should enhance your happiness, not be the source of it.
I'm hoping the best for you.

[Ancaire]

SciDad - If you have already agreed on transparency, please do it. It's not healthy for you to be wondering. You need to get this out in the open, for both of you. If you're wondering, you'll be drawing back - you just can't help it after being burned.

Getting involved with church is an excellent idea. The happiest period in our M life was when we were both involved. We had different things to do, mutual and separate friend, and a common goal.

I should have been more suspicious when he informed me a few years back that he wasn't interested in doing any "churchy" things. But - that's hindsight. I'm beginning to understand that hindsight, while crystal clear, is pretty much a waste of brain power I should be devoting to something else once I've learned the lesson there. LOL

[sandi2]

I do not know what some of you think a transparency plan involves. Apparently there are some misunderstandings about having transparency during the time the WS is going through withdrawal from an A. If you, personally, have never gone through ending an A and going through the withdrawal stage, then you may not fully understand how transparency works as a support method for the WS, plus it helps the betrayed S to heal and began building trust again. It doesn't mean a couple must do this for the rest of their M, but when you consider what a healthy MR is...........would it not be a H & W who have no secret activities from each other? That is the point in helping the WS get back on track and able to have a healthy MR again. If they don't have some method of accountability, the temptation for the WS is too much, in most cases, and the poor betrayed S really has little to assure him/her that the WS is truly working to get the MR healthy again.

Not sure why BS would be not want it, or why anyone would compare it to an open marriage (?), or snooping..........neither of which has anything to do with transparency. Perhaps I am the one who misunderstood what was said.

[SciDad]

SciDad - If you have already agreed on transparency, please do it. It's not healthy for you to be wondering. You need to get this out in the open, for both of you. If you're wondering, you'll be drawing back - you just can't help it after being burned.

That's exactly the problem I'm having. I'm withdrawing again and I don't like it. Not only was it one of the initial problems in our marriage, but because I don't like how it makes me feel. Guarded, on edge, closed off from the world.

Getting involved with church is an excellent idea. The happiest period in our M life was when we were both involved. We had different things to do, mutual and separate friend, and a common goal.

We've never been involved in the church, but have talked about wanting to do it. My wife is Methodist and I'm Catholic, so we had talked about looking into a non-denominational Christian service. For me it's not only personal, but something I'd like to instill in my children. Nothing crazy, but it bothers me that my kids believe in Roman and Greek Gods, but aren't so sure about that Jesus guy.... As an aside, the first time I thought my wife had bought into working on things I told her I would start looking for a church after the holidays. We could do it as a family or not, but it was something I needed to do.

I'm beginning to understand that hindsight, while crystal clear, is pretty much a waste of brain power I should be devoting to something else once I've learned the lesson there.

The only reason that hindsight is clearer is because you have the benefit of knowing more of the story, and maybe even the intent behind some actions. Which is simply not possible in realtime unless your spouse is being totally open and honest. And its a pretty safe bet that no one here is in that situation.... Add to that the simple fact that you need to be able to perceive the actions in the first place and I realize how easy it is to miss certain signs.

Don't beat yourself up over the past. Build yourself up for the future

[SciDad]

Sandy! You're right! I was absolutely looking at transparency it a totally different way. I was thinking about how it help ME, and hadn't even thought about how it helps my W. I'm not sure why this is hard for me to understand, but I need to start looking at this from the other perspective. I guess I still struggle sometimes by thinking its all about me...

Not sure why BS would be not want it, or why anyone would compare it to an open marriage (?), or snooping..........neither of which has anything to do with transparency. Perhaps I am the one who misunderstood what was said.

Now that I see it from the perspective of the WS, it makes much more sense. It also should help if the conversation starts to feel like I want to control my W's communications. That's not the point - she's smart enough that she can figure out a way to do anything she wants. If I look at this like an addiction, addicts may really want to stop, but struggle. The idea of the transparency plan is to discuss urges before they become actions. But the ultimate decision to act or not remains solely in the control of the WS. Nothing I can do will stop her from doing what she wants.

Am I closer, Sandi?

[ARose]

I think I get what Sandi is saying. That the WS has to WANT to make the changes, if she agrees reluctantly and isn't really on board then it turns into spying. Ask her what she wants? If she wants to move on from OM, then ask her how you can help, if she is tempted, etc? Or am I way off base?

I never got this far with H, he shuts down at the mention of any of this, I don't know personally how we will ever get past it if he can't talk about it. He does leave his phone and laptop unattended now so that counts for something but I don't even peek. Because it makes me angry at him for putting me in that position.

[kyrie]

And, Kyrie, it is also a tool to help us during the time when our spouse has one foot out the door. This is not the same advice you'd get if you and your spouse were hitting a rough patch and were both on board with reconciling, it is a way of coping with uncertainty and trying to preserve your own emotional health and giving your marriage the best chance of pulling through this.

I am starting to think Kyrie that part of your "not getting" certain concepts is that you are thinking of this as marriage advice, DB'ing is for more for people who are in crisis, who have one partner who is in the process or at least seriously thinking about leaving, or even who has already left.

No we're still in crisis. It's just protracted.