Just got done seeing my attorney. Not looking good. With moving out, I'm trying to financially see how I can pay the amounts they are requesting. Attorney said it'd probably be a good idea to sit down with ww and see if she can work something out. Otherwise, her and her attorney can continue to ask for a higher amount than we are proposing.
This makes going dark seem even harder for me. She has 100% control in this divorce process and financially how hard she hits me. If I'm dark, why would she want to be anything but vindictive? She clearly doesn't care about me.
Why is your attorney agreeing to the higher amount she is proposing? Why isn't he offering a counter proposal? Or is that what he wants you to negotiate? Isn't that what you hired him to do?
Originally Posted By: Ripken8
This makes going dark seem even harder for me. She has 100% control in this divorce process and financially how hard she hits me. If I'm dark, why would she want to be anything but vindictive?
Which is why the advice around here is usually to leave the divorce to the lawyers.
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
My attorney is offering counter - $800, when her attorney wants me to pay the mortgage at $1300. My lawyer is saying based on what I W2's that I should be able to pay close to $1300 and a judge would probably see that - I can't. Not with my new rent, etc. But, that's what state laws dictate.
So, since everything is negotiable, if ww would agree to work with me, that's a better shot than taking it to a judge to decide, who would prob decide in her favor.
So my lawyer told me that being open and transparent with my ww and letting her know what we're proposing and why could help her agree to it, vs her feeling I'm lowballing her with everything just between lawyers.
So much for just leaving it up to attorneys and going dark. How can I do both?
Last edited by Ripken8; 05/11/1506:51 PM.
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
Well not sure how well that went or what I was expecting. Talked with ww about meeting with attorney and wanting to be able to talk through finances together so neither of us has to feel animosity and can be able to still communicate on important things.
Told her I cannot afford the full mortgage, but proposed and am willing to do $800. Also told her that I already am working to cut things out of my budget like cable in order to ensure she gets that payment.
She got angry and said that she hates dealing with this and loves being able to just have her attorney handle things because she hates talking about it. She also said she is scared because she can't make the mortgage payment on her own and is worried all the extra expenses will leave her in financial duress.
I told her I can understand why that would scare her and I want to look at our bills and find a way to get to a number that works for both of us. She is also stressed because she needs to out the house on the market and not sure to do that and not sure what happens if it doesn't sell, etc.
She also made the comment that she stopped coming to me because she felt like I no longer gave a [censored]. That when she would want to talk about light things, I would be checked out and give short responses - lrt and going dark as much as possible. So she felt she couldn't come to me with anything remotely serious.
I told her I understood that she felt that way and that this obviously isn't easy for either one of us. In the end I want to continue to communicate so that we can both be ok, so our sons will have 2 places where they can be safe and have what they need.
She said she'd be more open to talking, but never agreed on any amount and I didn't force the issue.
Really not sure what to do from here.
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
Sandi, wonka, everyone else. While living in the same house and going through trying to come to agreement on finances, I'm not sure how to go dark or lrt effectively.
As I do it, I'm not sure she really respects me. All she expresses is that it feels like I don't give a crap and that makes her feel like she can't trust me and I'm the bad guy out to hurt or manipulate her. How does that keep the path home smooth? How does that generate respect?
Part of me feels when I move out I need to go dark to have her realize what she's missing and stand by my no om boundary. But the other part knows she has abandonment fears and that by me doing that would just continue to prove her right.
Yes she made the choice to have the affair and she continues to disrespect me. But do I go dark when right now the returns are anger and an overall feeling that I don't care for her and am out to get her? Or do I continue to communicate and help her with selling our house and risk having her think I'm ok with the affair and possibly lose respect along the way.
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
Really confused as far as what to do and how to proceed. After reading tenbook's situation, I'm unsure if my wife is a WW or going through a MLC. She's 33, turning 34, so not sure if that;s too young for one, but here's a rundown of our sitch and her history:
-Dad abused mom growing up, got divorced and WW had a horrible relationship with father, who emotional and verbally abused her. Cut him out of her life at 18 -Had a relationship with an ex that ended poorly at 18, he dumped her and between him and her father, she ran to Omaha -In Omaha, was in a job for 6 months she hated, felt lonely, didn't know anyone and met me, we immediately started dating at 19 and moved in together and within 3 years were married with a kid -7 years into our marriage we had been in and out of conseling and she admits she no longer loves me and is having an EA with her ex when she was 18 - I move out of the house, she said she's filing for divorce, but never did -Her mother and sister are diagnosed with Huntington's disease, a rare, incurable illness that leads to dementia and early death. WW has a 50% chance of having it because her mother does and if WW has it, each of our sons have a 50% chance. This leads to a lot of guilt and risk of suicide among people facing this. Depression is high. -Her mother comes to live with WW and is so far gone, it's hard for WW to deal with and take care of her -3 months after moving out, her EA dumps her and she runs back to me and starts initating sex with me and we work things out and I move back into the house, her mother moves back home to Wisconsin -WW wants to gets tested for disease, but is too scared to and we sweep under the rug. We do not go back to conseling to fix any of the problems that initially occured -We spend 2 years happy and agree to renew our vows on our 10 year anniversary last May -JUL/AUG/SEPT she is off. She starts smoking, complains about how she hates work and is unhappy and doesn't know if she's ever been happy or ever could. She goes through a big depression -OCT she claims the reason she has been depressed is she needs to get tested for Huntingtons and to stop living in fear. She schedules her test for FEB/MAR of 2015 -End of DEC she tells me she loves me, but not in love with me. Unsure if she wants a divorce -JAN she admits to going on a date with OM, but that they are friends -JAN/FEB she continues to go out late with whoever, unexpectedly and wants nothing to do with me. Said she needs space and is unsure what she wants to do in life, whether to go back to school, quit her job, unsure about anything and just needs to be free and find herself. She also said she is unwilling to do counselling and is constantly triggered by me and past hurt. She no longer feels she can get past the hurt, trust me and risk getting hurt again -MAR she gets her results. She does NOT have Huntingtons. She continues to tell me she is unhappy. Apparently FEB (at the latest) is when she started her affair and hid it from me -APR she hides money from our tax return, files for divorce, drops the bomb and finally admits to the affair
Overall, her MO is when things get tough, she runs and just wants them to be over. She has essentially cut her 2 sisters out of what's been going on for her and surrounded herself with OM and work friends she has known less than a year, who have no idea about me or our relationship, only people that would support her affair and moving on. -Our joint therapist over the years believes WW suffers from PTSD with me and past experiences with her father. Until that's treated, feels WW will always feel unhappy after 2-3 years and the pattern of running continues.
I have done the no OM speech, given a boundary of not being able to be her friend and had things strictly communicated with me lawyer. I realize there's nothing I can do to change her, until she decides she wants to work on her.
What I don't know is does this sound more similar to MLC or WW? If one or the other, how should I react? From what I've read MLC is more about understanding her hurt and not trying to create more pressure, playing the long game - if you can handle it. And WW is standing your ground, setting boundaries and gaining respect.
Based on this, what do you guys think? I'm second guessing everything now. Any other questions about my sitch I can clarify?
Sorry for the long post!
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
I would respectfully suggest you stop trying to arm-chair diagnose your WW and focus on things that are in your control - your WW's reasons and motivations have nothing to do with you at this point, and there is nothing you can do to change this.
What you can control is how this divorce is going to happen, and nothing will influence this more than your initial offer and moving out of the house.
Moving out and leaving her in the house with the kids is almost always a bad move. Unless you are in a no support situation (you make about the same or less than your wife, 50-50 on kids and everything else) then you moving out gives her a big advantage. By keeping the marital home, even if the time works out 50-50 it is generally presumed that she will receive support to maintain her lifestyle in the marital home. If she cant afford this on her own - you will have to pay up. Judges spend a lot of time considering the $ required to support the kids, they wont give a second thought about what you need to live on in your apartment, even if you have 50-50.
You need to force the sale of the house, hopefully before you move out. Once you are both out of the marital home and with 50-50, then you are on equal footing and there is no reason why you should have to pay more than temporary, rehabilitative support. Especially if you can work the ongoing affair into the conversation.
If you just have to leave due to the stress of the situation, then be very careful about writing terms for how long and under what conditions you pay support. I have seen exes live rent free for upwards of a decade by sabotaging sales and refusing to pay the mortgage, some even moving their APs in with them while the LBS foots the bill. You cant say things like "until sale of the house", you will need to say "for 12 months or until cohabitation" etc.
Your initial offer is the best that you will ever get. If you are paying up just to get out of the situation a few months faster, bear in mind that you will still be paying for this far into the future, when you will probably think of your ex as nothing more than a contemptible leach. You are so desperate to move out now that your instincts are to pay up and end the pain, but think about 5 years in the future and you are effectively paying for her cruise vacation with her boyfriend, just so that you could move out a few months sooner and try to avoid upsetting her.
Basically, what I am saying is that you need to tough it out now and stand up for yourself, because you are dangerously close to making some very long-term mistakes.
Finally, when you see a lawyer, expect realistic assessments that wont make you happy. But also expect to hear options and advice. If you arent hearing that, I highly suggest you consult a few more attorneys and see which ones are willing to go to bat for you.
Fade - Here's where I'm at - I'm moving out 5/23 no matter what, signed the lease. She put in a temporary order for me to move out anyway. And the discussion we are finalizing is on the temporary order. Finally, my lawyer already clarified me moving out of the house will have no negative impact on custody or financially what I'm paying her. Also, already hired the attorney so not shopping around for others.
I had thought about helping with the house being sold, but I've gotten so much advice on dragging out the divorce and not helping with anything, letting her deal with it. Letting my lawyer talk to hers and having communication go that way.
That hasn't seemed to help and only built resentment from her.
What I'm not hearing is how to communicate and interact with her. Go dark or help her with the process? Get respect or communicate and have relationship of any kind? If I help with the process, aren't I just stopping any DB techniques and supporting her decision to divorce, creating a self fulfilling prophecy I don't want?
That's why I'm asking about MLC and WW. Because of other people's sitch it appeared you act differently between them. So again, I'm needing help on communication and interaction with her now. What do I do?
NOT legal advice.
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
Is anybody here? I'm starting to feel lost because of the timeline with temporary order. I'm thinking I need to talk with her and ask if she would like my help in selecting an agent, gettin the house on the market and doin what's needed around the house, even after moving out. That should make her less overwhelmed and hopefully feel I can work and communicate with her on things. I think this is also separate from my fear of her feeling this is me trying to be her friend or approving of the affair. This is working together to dissolve a partnership amicably. Or am I enabling her and allowing her to cake eat? This is where I need help!
M-33 W-33 S-11, S-8 M-11, T-14 BD - 12/26, Divorce Filing and admits to affair (her) 4/18 I moved out 5/23
