Pyrite: Eye of the storm?

[Pyrite]

[Pyrite]

Sadly I have my friend. It is ALL I could do after BD. I actually had to be steered out of it. Maybe it really was destructive. I rode myself into the ground listing all of the things I DID wrong.

If only I had been stronger etc. Her reaction (for the most part anyway) is just typical human response, and is forgivable.

When I joined here I was stuck in the position that I couldn't forgive myself. Following one of your earlier threads which included about the ego driven resentment-feedback I realised that this was what I was doing in my M towards the end. And that ego problem has actually screwed things my whole life. And it was in no small part nurtured by my father (who is an ego-maniac BTW).

So forgiving myself became plausible for the first time since BD. Growth from recognising all these things became plausible. And they were not just destructive.

I absolutely want a healthy M and a real R, not a Stepford wife.

My W would never be on here. She screams that she has never done anything wrong in our M. There have been moments when she has acknowledged different things, but basically I think she is a typical WAS. She was RIGHT, she doesn't need to learn anything. Just replace the R.

There must be cases where the LBS didn't do anything wrong.
There must be cases where the WAS didn't do anything wrong.
There must be cases where the LBS or the WAS shared the wrong doing 50/50.
Most cases are probably somewhat "greyer" than this.

Ideally we would all be expert DBers, and relationships would be supported by 2 partners, equally as flexible and supportive etc. Accepting 100% of the blame for the failure of the M is irrelevant, not healthy, blah, blah. I can't say whether I was 50% responsible, 80, 90, 99, even 100. And really this is irrelevant. Whatever her part was, is nothing I can help.

I DO accept 100% responsibility for my part in the failure of the M, however much that was.

I could achieve absolute "Dalai Lama" status and respond with 10s all the time, no matter what she gave me. Would that be a healthy R? No way. At some point the S is responsible.

I had NO say in how our kids were fed, or put to sleep etc as babies. If I even suggested (very nicely) that we tried this technique or that then I was shouted down. "How dare I question her instincts as a mother." Is that an acceptable situation? How often should I replay a 10 and not let it get to me.

This is in no way avoiding responsibility for my part in the M breakdown. Replaying with a 1 or 2 is disrespectful and unforgivable. There is no justification for this. So for how long do you keep playing higher cards and suffering this before you say "the marriage is over!".

My response to 3 and 4 was eventually to replay with 1 and 2. Her response to this was OM. So my aim now is to never get to this point of being the sort of person that resorts to playing a 1 or a 2. This DOES mean in reality that the other person has to be somewhat on the same page, BUT we dont know this upfront. We dont really know how we will react to an unknown future, let alone another person. So all we can do is be best prepared, ourselves.

sorry dont even have time to reread my ramblings.

[Pyrite]

Somebody is not doing any work and marriages that start with an affair IMHO are doomed.

from a long time ago, my browser, I was in 3 significant Rs prior to meeting my W. And in everyone I was the OM - there were no Ms and upfront I didn't even know that I was the OM. But I explicitly remember thinking, with 1 GF in particular, that is exactly how you met me, so how can I be confident that you won't play the same game again.

I suspect when the OM breaks up a M, there comes a time when this comes up for them even more significantly.

[MrBond]

You haven't read the books yet have you?

[Pyrite]

I am just starting.

To what exactly are you referring that is in contradiction of DR?

[Pyrite]

Zeus - i still want to reply to your post but haven't had the time. Had 2 sick kids the past few days.

[MrBond]

Alot of what you're doing isn't in line with DBing. And I see you making recommendations on other people's posts that aren't DBing so I would advise you not doing that until you finish reading and truly understand what they mean.

I still haven't seen much change in your attitude as Zeus has pointed out.

[Pyrite]

Alot of what you're doing isn't in line with DBing.

This is what I am asking for examples of. I am not totally committed to saving the M. Perhaps that is what is coming across. I swing to and fro on this. When I swing away from the M, and point out why (How she treated me over the years). All I get is criticism. Even if the LRT technique gets her talking to me, there is a bucket load of work to do after that. and it is NOT just on my side.
I suppose either way I have to proceed in the same way, and I dont need to make that decision now.

And I see you making recommendations on other people's posts that aren't DBing so I would advise you not doing that until you finish reading and truly understand what they mean.

Fair enough

I still haven't seen much change in your attitude as Zeus has pointed out.

Are you implying that I am playing the victim here? Some of your other comments imply this as well. This is simply untrue. I am and have said I am responsible for my W being unhappy in the M. This doesn't mean she was an angel and did everything right.

IF I had've walked 2 years ago - she could be posting as the LBS. Would you be grilling her about what did YOU do? Has this evaporated now?

thanks for the reply.

[Heart14]

IF I had've walked 2 years ago - she could be posting as the LBS. Would you be grilling her about what did YOU do?

Yes, if roles were reversed people on this forum would be asking her about her contributions. You are here, so you are the one being asked the tough questions. She likely has work to do as well. She's not here though. Nothing you do will change her or make her put in the work. She will have to decide to do that on her own. Focus on YOU and your contributions to the M. They are they only thing you can control. It's worth putting in the effort even if you don't decide to fight for the M. It will make you a better partner for whoever you are with in the future.

[Zues126]

Not being totally committed to the marriage is usually a defense mechanism. It can be "sour grapes", it can be a way to avoid looking in the mirror. It can also stem from resentment as discussed (look how she treated me, I deserve better!). Finally, it can come from a tendency to "get it over with". People think it's easier to give up so there is no more limbo. What they don't realize is that the consequences of the D will be just as eternal, and the consequences of the lack of skills will be even greater by walking away.

Neither you nor your WAW want the M you had. The question is would you be willing to build a better M that worked for both of you? The new M is better because of shared history, children, and MOST IMPORTANTLY because you will both have developed the skills needed to get through a war together. Run from this M and it's possible your life becomes a series of 7-10 year R's that fall apart at a certain point. But if you learn the skills to get through a crisis like this, you will not only have a better M, but you will have a lasting M. SO THE ROAD TO SAVING YOUR M IS ACTUALLY THE SAME AS THE ROAD TO HEALING, BECOMING A BETTER MAN, AND PREPARING FOR YOUR NEXT M WITH A DIFFERENT PERSON. Since those roads don't diverge why not walk the path, avoid burning bridges, and giving yourself the best of all options?

Of course she has work to do as well, and you can't force her to do it. But even if she doesn't you'll be prepared for a good M next time. And you might be surprised how she may respond when you do the actual work yourself and ATTRACT her back rather than control her back.

We've all had the feelings about "if I had left and she was here you'd be ripping into her right now". That is true. Because she'd be the only one she could influence. Not you. But as the books point out early on, you're here, she's not. Someone has to be the leader. And you can't expect her to do something too difficult for you to do yourself.

My question for you is can you commit to walking a path of self improvement, to make yourself a better H, with or without your W? If so, don't answer with a yes. Do the following:

-Post your destructive behaviors in your M
-Don't mention your W's behaviors AT ALL. Just yours, and how you impacted her.

This is a critical step because this entire process starts with accountability. You cannot grow while blaming, deflecting, minimizing, excusing, evading, rationalizing, and quitting. Making your future behavior different comes from recognizing and owning what didn't work.

Now, my long post is risky. An argument is only as strong as a weakest link. You could find some fault with something I've said, argue that you don't feel a certain way, or rationalize why this doesn't apply. But what I've seen is you have yet to actually disclose what behavior drove her out of the M, and you have yet to discuss your shortcomings without immediately referencing her behavior.

To make it easier...pretend that she was just killed in a car crash. Poof. Gone. Forget about her and what she does. She's gone. Now we're working on you to be a better man for your next M.

You can claim to be "better" and that you were the victim of a terrible woman, and "hope" that your next woman will be the soul mate that allows you to be happily married for years without any self growth. That's your choice. Only you will be impacted by the way your life plays out if you make that choice.

But- a little encouragement...there is one other reason why people "give up" on their M and avoid the work. It's because they don't believe it's possible to change. They think their only chance for a good M if it's because it was their WAS's fault, because they don't believe they can do better. I've felt this way as well, and I've grown (some). I can assure you if you start walking the path you can get there. In fact, it's because I've identified so much with what you've written that I feel compelled to jump in. I am so grateful for what I've learned that if you gave me the chance to go back in time to when I was M and not have these lessons I don't think I'd accept. You've paid for the lessons. I want you to get your money's worth.