WAW-- LRT in action

[SadDood]

W,

I know I said I wouldn't respond before I returned from the slope, but I've given this a lot of thought and you need time to prepare for this.

I know I said you could stay in the mother in law apartment while I was home, and the more I think about it, the more I think that is not such a good idea. I would rather you stayed at one of your parent's houses, or somewhere else. It would just be awkward around the house and the kids would notice the tension. Additionally, I'm going to need more space than the two weeks on the slope will allow. We both need to get a taste of what our future holds.

If you're wondering why the sudden change of heart, as my wife of 8 years, I think you're entitled an explanation. It wasn't until last Saturday that I had completed my grieving process. (Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance). It was on Saturday, that I finally accepted my new reality. A huge burden was lifted from my shoulders and I was able to finally breathe easier. I knew that I would be fine, and the kids would be fine (and very loved) no matter what happened between us. I cannot stay in a relationship where I am not loved or respected. I will not be your doormat or shoulder all the blame for our demise. Right now, I do not want you as my wife or as my friend. If this sounds harsh, I'm sorry. Just so you know, I'm am not trying to be vindictive or punish you in any way, you will always have a special place in my heart. I just want as little contact with you and as much space as possible right now.

I don't want to make any decisions based on emotions or gut reactions. I would really like to evaluate our options before doing anything rash and making unwise decisions. I will not list the houses, or sell any assets while we are separated. I would never try to screw you over. I also haven't spoken to an attorney and do not intend to.

For now, before filing for a legal separation, if we can come to some common ground, a formal legal separation will be unnecessary.

Here are my proposed ground rules:

- We treat each other with civility, fairness, kindness, dignity, and respect at all times
- We do not discuss the details of our separation outside of our closest friends and family
- There is to be no airing of dirty laundry on any form of social media
- When I'm on the slope, you are entitled to the house and children.
- When I'm home, I am responsible for the kids and will be entitled to the house
- We will not interfere with each other's rights to have the kids during our alotted time with them
- I will pick the kids up at daycare on the Wednesday I arrive home (barring some sort of flight delay), you will pick the kids up at daycare the Tuesday before I leave and be able to return to the house immediately after
- We will leave the house clean and the kid's clothes laundered and ready to go prior to the other taking possession of the house
- We will not use the kids as leverage in any way
- No matter our differences, we will always put the kids first
- Until we get our financial obligations sorted, we will only use the joint account for bills and necessary purchases (food, gas, cleaning supplies, etc.). Any personal purchases will be done on our own credit cards.
- Neither of us will surprise each other with filing for divorce. We will give fair warning of our intentions. (So that we are not ambushed and embarrassed while at work)
- We will obviously notify one another if something is serious with the kids
- Until our divorce is final, we will not expose the kids to potential mates

This list is in no particular order, and it was all I could think of at this moment. It is not meant as a form of controlling one another.

I think this is fair and rational. If you have anything you'd like to add or object to, let me know.

I apologize if this sounds formal, it is not meant to be. I just wanted to establish some sort of framework for going forward.

I do not want a long drawn out discussion. Let's keep this to a short correspondence and get on with giving each other much needed space.


-Me

I know it wasn't perfect, and will post potential emails/texts here before pressing the send button in the future.

[SadDood]

Her response, the next day (today)

Good Morning,

I appreciate the e-mail.I know how hard it is to put into words what you're feeling. Thank you for the explanation so I can better understand where you're at. I think it will help in the long run. Like I've said earlier, it hurts more, but we're not doing each other any favors by not being 100% honest. I'm going to try and keep this short...

Please know that I don't put all the blame on you for our demise. It takes 2 for everything. We are both at fault and I will own my part in all of this. Yes, the kids are going to be okay, but this is not going to be easy on them. D4 especially. I will leave the house Wednesday and give you your 2 weeks with the kids. However, I think we need to sit down with them on Wednesday afternoon/evening and give them some kind of explanation. I will be attending their sporting events during those 2 weeks, however I will be respectful of your time with them outside of soccer and I may pop into dance class for a much needed hug. I need you to know that I have not and will not speak ill of you around the kids and I will never, ever use them as leverage.

I will not use our joint account for any personal purchases. I did open a Wells Fargo account (omitted for relevance)

I guess that's all. You don't have to respond. Probably better if you don't. I think we're on the same page for today. I hope you have a good hitch.

Oh, I found out yesterday S6 has his Kindergarten Music concert tomorrow. I'll send you some pictures/video of it.

-W

I hate how civil and calm througout this whole thing.She has been kind and mostly forthcoming. When I return home, I will be doing a lot of GALing and spending time with the kids.

I'm just wondering if I overplayed my hand. I have no expectations, but, I'm wondering if this is just her using her guile to keep me attached and is cake eating. I'm certain she has been cake eating in the past. We live in a nice home on a lake and even own a rental home together (along with sever other assets/toys--jetskis, atv's, boats). I have always been a good provider and loving father, despite being gone half the year. I'm so confused right now.

[SadDood]

I'm just going to keep posting as thoughts occur to me.

I asked W why she hasn't talked to her parents or any of our close friends about our sitch. She responded by saying that she doesn't want to get "judged". I try not to read to much into this, but why would she be getting judged for falling out of love with her husband. She is very close to both her M and F (despite them both being divorced and remarried). We all live in the same small town. I wonder if she has done something shameful that she is unwilling to divulge. Instead she only hangs out with a new group of friends, all women, as they are a source of "happiness" for her and give her strength, inspiration and hope for a better future.

I know Sandi says I should go see a lawyer to better understand my rights in her thread, but I am a law school graduate that has never practiced law. I still have a firm grasp on how our state's legal system works and what my rights are. This intimidates W and she questions whether or not she should go see one. She recently told me that she has not seen one and will not see one unless things get ugly. I would prefer it this way... at least for now. I know an L would just push her towards filing for D. I'm trying to play it cool right now.

I also know Sandi says to limit contact with relatives, but W's Mom calls me often and is upset at W for not reaching out to her. She is, ironically, on my side through this and I don't think it is a ploy. She knows I am a good man, great father, and try to be a good husband. M-I-L wants her grandchildren to grow in a loving family and not be shattered by D. She calls me after W calls her crying about things. I guess W called her when I left unexpectedly early for work, and then called bawling about the text she received from me RE: getting own bank account, finding place to live.

For now, I'm holding firm on NC. Especially after our last email exchange. Part of me wants to validate a few things in her reply email, but she says at the end that I do not need to reply. I will leave it at that and plan on not contacting her for the next few weeks.

Again, thank you for all your kindness throughout this process. I am not afraid of CC... please do so if you see me veering way off course.

So far my 180's.
-Getting in shape

-Dressing nicer (was previously a carhartt's guy, now dress like my frat boy days)

-Not ever showing anger or snapping back when she says something hurtful or I disagree with. I have shown great restraint without getting walked on (I have always been quick to snap back a hurtful retort)

-Always showing happiness and contentment (I've been generally grumpy and a downer for the past few years)

-Showing Confidence again. I was once very cocky and self assured, and this is what initially attracted W. For the past few years, and especially since BD, I've not had much true confidence until the last month or so.

My Faux 180's that were merely supplication
-Cooking every night
-Doing all of the housework, taking care of the kids, etc.
-Running errands, doing all the shopping
-Hanging on every word and not truly DBing

I wish I could change my username from Saddood. I am no longer sad. I'm hurt and in pain for sure, but I'm not sad.

[1976 T]

I wish I had your strength. You are way stronger than I am. How do you do that. Please tell me how you say it and mean it.

[SadDood]

I never said it, I texted it and emailed it. I have not reached out to her at all (it has only been a day). But after texting it and emailing, I started believing it. Too late to take it back now and I'm even more detached than ever.

In my head, I say it's over and I start believing it and that gives me some peace. I've got so far to go, I just need to remain strong and keep on working out and eating right. I just read a book (found for free doing a google search). And most of it is very similar to MWD's approach. I found it very interesting.

[SadDood]

Any advice on how I should proceed?

[MCS]

Saddood, (I'm going to start just calling you SD)

SD,

Man, this "how to proceed" is what I think about every day.

Just wanted to say, I told W I made it through 'grief' two days after BD.....WRONG. I'm 8 months in and see that its still there. Are you seeing an IC? I've never, ever thought I would need to see one, but she's awesome. I'm a logical thinker and she can totally bridge the emotional side and put them in terms I understand. Go make an appointment, it takes a while; but you'll be happy you have one.

As far as family, for me; WW just BD (no prior issues that I knew of in our M) and then simply left....me, her house, her kids, etc. I literally thought she was having a mental breakdown. I called her mom, her sis, friends. I was worried sick about her. She wasn't talking to them, so I gave them updates, had them trying to talk to her. My WW kept telling me this was a 'private' matter, I was like "It could have been but you just left your kids behind"...anyway. Pretty much everything I shouldn't have done. Well, then I found out about OM and WW has used the fact that I told people (I didn't tell ANY of her family about OM, still not sure if they know or not) to hide behind her pushing everyone away.

So, dang-ed if you do..dang-ed if you don't.

Here's how I would proceed. Focus on SD...its gut wrenching "making" yourself do stuff. I went to a museum and halfway through saw a couple holding hands and had to leave because I was starting to break down. It happens, but it will get better. I internet-promise you.

Give W her space, you can't fix it. I still struggle with this.

You're kids are my kids age. They know what's going on, its uncanny. Take them bowling, for ice cream, pizza, bounce houses, parks, whatever. Focus on them, their zeal for life will instantly pick you up. Have fun with them.

I go through every day with these thoughts going through my head at some point. This has gotten exponentially easier, but I'm sure you're in the same boat.

Why didn't she talk to me about her troubles?
What could I have done differently?
When did she change? become unhappy?
Why doesn't she see what this is doing to the kids?
How do I make it easier for her to come back?
What do I say to her if she gets out of her fog?
What if I get served?
and so on and so on and so on.

But these questions don't consume me anymore. I used to sit at my computer at work and just stare at the screen, not anymore. Time is our friend, Look out for SD.

[SadDood]

MCS,

I really appreciate this response! For the first few months, I did everything wrong and couldn't find the will to do things I liked or even talk to very good friends. It's humbling, embarrassing and I felt like I had no value. She held all the cards.

After I sent that initial text (after reading all Sandi's WW threads), I can't even describe the empowerment I felt. Don't get me wrong, I still hurt, my pride is still hurt, but I feel so much better letting go. Even leaving a few days early without telling her was empowering. Sure, every sad song on the radio reminded me of her, but the 3 hour drive was therapeutic. When I got to my departure city (for work), I stayed at friends house in his extra bedroom. We went out that night and he listened to my story and was an excellent listener and didn't judge. After seeing me cry a little while telling of my woes. We did a few shots and played some pool and discussed what was going on in his life. I didn't even think of my W at all. Ever since, (like 4 days--don't want to blow this out of perspective), I've been focusing on other people and it's really refreshing because it causes me to not think about my own situation. In those 4 days, I went golfing 3 of them as a single and was paired with threesomes who were complete strangers. Had some great fun and barely thought about the W. It was fun meeting some new people in a different city. This was even more empowering and I grew less resentful and more optimistic. Of course, I'm still human and in the process of detaching. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think about my W. It's amazing though, how I've been able to force myself to think about something else, anything else, and mentally move to a happy place.

Luckily, my W hasn't abandoned our kids. She is still a great mother. I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. I didn't see whether or not you had family near that could watch the kids so you could go out and GAL. Our children are very close to the same age (like you said), and their intuition is inexplicably tuned into their perceptions. My S6 was pouting after playing knee hockey with D4, and I picked him up and held him and asked what was wrong? Tears were streaming down his face and he said he was worried about Mommy and Daddy. It took every ounce of will power not to shed a tear. I just calmly told him our family will be OK and held him very close, for what felt like an eternity.

Have you ever golfed? Even if not, I'd recommend going to a driving range. That alone felt great to take out some frustrations on tons of range balls.

We'll both get through this! Sometimes, I think I would rather my W did what your W has done, because you know. I don't know anything at this point which makes everything that much more difficult to understand. I think it would almost be easier to say eff her and move on. But, obviously, these are delicate times for anyone in our sitch.

So far, I'm not sure if reading all these threads is helpful (they're obviously helpful) or debillitating the detachment process. I know every second I'm on here empathizing with kindred (internet) souls, I'm thinking about W. I would almost rather read anything else.

Wishing you happiness MCS,

SD

[SadDood]

Also, I've been seeing a psych for meds and I really think the meds are helping.

Was scheduled for IC with another lady, but wasn't able to make the appointment and had to reschedule. Somewhat afraid to go the first time, but I'm going to go no matter what. I don't like that they call it psychotherapy for some reason. I'm not a psycho.

Off the topic, but I'm starting to understand the FOG scenario.

At one time (summers during college), I was a charter boat Captain. I was very good with people and navigating rough waters. I rarely had a deckhand and prided myself on being a hard worker and providing people a positive experience (and seeing how happy they were to catch fish). I had a lot of confidence and people could see it. I had to maintain my cool and be calm in all sorts of crazy situations- i.e., extremely rough seas, anchor lines caught in props against a strong tide, faulty motors, and sometimes deep fog.
Usually, the fog was no big deal, I had radar and gps, as well as a compass (which was rarely used). One time, the fog was so thick that I couldn't even see the bow of the boat from my captains chair. The tide was ripping and the seas were rough. When the seas are rough, you can't just cruise in a straight line, you have to zig zag and quarter the oncoming waves. It's difficult even without the fog. Anyway, My radar locked up, and the GPS stopped working. I had a compass, but it wasn't moving smoothly (there were air bubbles or something causing it to hesitate and get a hitch in it's movement). I just didn't trust the compass. We could hear air horns of an oil tanker very close to us. I was panicking internally, but didn't want my clients to see my fear. I braced myself before turning around to face them (after troubleshooting) and put on my gameface. I told them everything would be alright and that the tanker has radar and would miss us. The clients instantly looked relieved. Here I was, some young college kid, taking the lead and calming everyone (much older than I) down and showing leadership. Eventually, since the compass was all I had, I had to trust it. Even though it wasn't working properly, it would eventually settle enough so that I could get a general bearing. I just putted along, zigzagging, through the rough waves, and since I couldn't see them clearly, I wasn't able to quarter them like normal. The boat would get rocked occasionally from the side, but my boat was very seaworthy and I knew this. I had been in much worse seas and trusted my boat, despite not trusting my compass. Eventually, I was able to break through the fog and find the coast. I was WAY off course. I knew this, but the clients did not. I followed the coastline until I could find a recognizable structure. At that point, I knew exactly where I was. WAY off course. Once I had my bearings, I was able to get the boat back into the harbor safely. This is a true story, and I have a feeling this is what WW's do, but without the leadership ability and trust of a seaworthy boat. Eventually, I think they find the harbor OR they just go in circles or run aground.

Probably not the most anecdotal story, but maybe someone could help me find some parallels.

[SadDood]

I've been thinking about what we're going to tell the kids, when W leaves the house for my two weeks. She will still be in the same town very close. I have no idea how to approach this. Haven't talked to W in a few days, but we still get along quite well.

I still have hope for us, but I need to be much more patient.

Any ideas for how to address the children?