TLEE86. Part III

[TLEE86]

Old thread locked out, couldn't think of a fancy title so this works. "Devastated Husband" just started sounding so sappy and needy.

Link to old thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...158#Post2539158

C- I am sorry you are hurting, and I hope your 10 year went as well as it could have, given the circumstances. I really wish you'd start a new thread, i feel like you need to get things off your chest. (don't make me start one for you)

Mozza-Sorry to make you teary-eyed, it happens to the best of us. I break down randomly too, from the stupidest reasons.
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Here's another thought from the W. (No i didnt paraphrase it, i really just don't feel like it). Keep in mind, none of our friends can read this. Just random people online.

"I know a lot of you are so confused and concerned as to what has happened with me, and to be honest I don’t know. Before summer tim left for ranger school and it broke me. Before he even left I was feeling it..our marriage wasn’t healthy. We got sucked into the roles we became and our life was Army. It was all we talked about, and everything depended on it, and it became so much more important than anything else, and it changed both of us. It all started over deployment years ago, then continued when he got back to Alaska, and then got worse going Georgia. His prioriy and focus was his promotion to Captain and Ranger School and my life was taking care of our dogs and him, and with that happening I didn’t get taken care of and my job as stay at home wife made me resentful and bitter and angry and hurt. He had his head down and focused on things that would make him better in work and at times I would have to beg him to love me, fights would get physical and scary, and then they wouldn’t be discussed or promises of change would be made but not kept. I couldn’t let go of thins that were done and said to me, and that made me not give 100 percent at home. I hated im telling me Ive accomplished nothing in life, or how nothing was mine because I didn’t earn the money, asking him every weekend for the simplest things like going ot get coffee and then walk around downtown but being told no because its a waste of gas or whats the point or we don’t have the money..I didn’t want to buy anything..its just being a wife kept up in the house all day because you get in trouble when you do drive because youre wastin gas makes you want to go out and see something. see people. On top of it, I didn’t feel good about myself..I felt ugly, and like my life had gone nowhere. I was doing nothing but the same thing every day. Before he left in May, I hated he never talked about how hed miss me..it was all talk about preparing for school. As an army wife I was just expected id be fine I guess? I wasn’t. I broke. And being depressed in a huge empty house with no one there killed my soul. 90 days later, 90 days of only mail which I couldn’t even bring myself to write back or read I was dead. He came home, and at his graduation ceremony I remember thinking was it worth it? was it worth doing this to me? losing me? ….so much happened and I wish I would have turned here to keep you all updated but I wasn’t me. I haven’t been. for a long time. I stopped turning to god, I started smoking, I cut off all communication with everyone but my mom. I moved to Tennessee to live with a friend because I know I cant afford it on my own and that has caused even more problems and then I got a job I hated and quit the job, I left for Maryland and got halfway there and came back, Im not strong right now. I am still finding who I was or want to be, im still hurt, I still regret so much. I know that’s vague and I wish I could explain more but its way too much to type.
with all that said, tim is not a bad person, he is a man who lost himself in work and did things the wrong way but so did I. No one knows the right way to do everything..we both made mistakes and his ability to do what he does is rare, and honorable. We still speak and just because things went the way they did doesn’t mean I think any less of him, he is full of good qualities and I say this because I don’t want any of you to think I am blaming him or like I have no faults. You could only understand if you were there through everything and there is so much I cant type it all.."

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When I first read it, I was really hurt, because it just made me so sad. But I talked to a friend, and you know what? What she wrote here, is almost verbatim to what I wrote in my first post here, describing my sitch. I am not the bad guy, or big bad wolf as C calls it. She says she has her faults too, and has her regrets.

I am glad that this story of hers, actually matches mine now. It is not a "rewriting of the marriage" but we both agree on what happened. Im trying to look at this as a positive, in that, she realizes its not just me. Does she want to work on the M? Probably not. But at least Im not the bad guy anymore, and by continuing to do what I am doing, will hopefully keep drawing her back in.

Thoughts? (YEA, my real name is Tim. This shouldnt be a surprise-many people go by first names here)

[Zelda09]

Hey. Going to think about your last question and this and get back later. Hang in there. Quick question - the physical stuff, verbal attacks on her worth - was that ever something addressed professionally with a MC before she left? Or you acknowledged that needed to be addressed?

[TLEE86]

Hey Z. To clarify, physical stuff does NOT mean, I repeat, does NOT mean I hit her in ANYWAY. It was more..i stood in the door and blocked her path. Was it right? Absolutely NOT. I can definitely see how scary that must be for her. And yes, I have addressed this and the attacks on her worth in counseling. I saw an IC for this, but AFTER she left. I didnt realize or know how much it bothered her. So I am in a much better place now, and have made gains with the IC when I saw him in Georgia.

The verbal attacks...i regret so much. which is why my validating her all the time now and supporting her actually causes some confusion in her, and she asks me, why are you so ok with me being wishy washy on my decisions in life. Everyone says things they don't mean when they get angry but I hit below the belt. Why? Because I didnt have anything over my wife, and i felt the need to have some ammo to defend myself with when she got mad. Honestly? its a feeling where ironically i felt inferior to my wife. My wife is awesome. Perfect blond haired blue eyed bombshell with a personality that is even more attractive. I was attracted by her looks at first, but her personality is what kept me around, always looking forward to the next thing in our life. People love her more than me, and these are my friends. She is everything I am not and everything I wish I could be, and I felt inferior to her. So when we argued, I already knew she was better than me, and I cant do any better than her. That whole thing about marrying someone better than you or in a different league? YEA, how i felt. I didnt feel good enough for her or why in the hell she picked me when she could have anyone she wanted. I just felt inferior and anything and everything was fair game- huge mistake. I don't know if this makes sense.

[MCS]

TLEE,

So reading the post, I see a couple things that may be silver linings.

1) She gave you a playbook on what your 180's should be (although you probably already know them)

2) She realizes and admits she's lost in what to do right now. That is a HUGE step for a WAS.

3) She's realized that she's searching for something that she has not yet found. Another big step for a WAS

4) She's gotten out of her fog to the extent that she's not projecting all of her problems as a fault of yours

I know that this letter must have stunk to read it. But, it just confirms that you are able to understand the situation that you are in. Now that Ranger school is over (that's hardcore) maybe she'll realize that life will settle down. Not that it helped in the end, but W and I both worked. We used to say that we would do 3-6 month stints of being busy, traveling, over-stressed, etc. It was really effective for us as we didn't have the other person compromise too much of their lives. (this changed once we had kids as there was no 'down-time')

It sounds like school took a toll on her and now she's trying to make the next part her time to experience stuff. It's not the right way to do it, but I guess it would help me understand overall what happened.

[Calibri]

I am glad that this story of hers, actually matches mine now. It is not a "rewriting of the marriage" but we both agree on what happened. Im trying to look at this as a positive, in that, she realizes its not just me. Does she want to work on the M? Probably not. But at least Im not the bad guy anymore, and by continuing to do what I am doing, will hopefully keep drawing her back in.

I get the impression that she's not going to work on the marriage from what she's written. It has a very "final" tone to it. But I also get the impression that she doesn't know what she wants, which means who the heck knows what's in the future.

I can imagine, you might feel some relief knowing that you both are on the same page about what happened. That there's a mutual agreement with what happened.

Having said that - Where does that leave you?

[TLEE86]

I don't know. For some reason the past 2 weeks, Ive been pretty depressed. I don't know what it is or why. I get a feeling of hopelessness and don't want to do anything. At all. I havent felt this way since BD. I want to take time off work, but 1. I don't know if they'll let me 2. I really don't want to tell my boss whats going on especially when Im doing well there and 3. I don't know what I would even do with time off

If I explain the situation, I think I can get some time off. But what would I do? I guess I can go somewhere and get my mind off things..

But I really don't want to explain to my boss whats happening. I don't think Ill get any sympathy (not that I want it) or understanding of whats going on. Plus, I'm actually doing very well at work. I don't want to bring all this extra baggage to the surface. I just don't know anymore. I don't know what its like to be depressed but Im pretty mopey and its hard to force myself to do anything. I miss contact with people, like face to face contact with someone I can talk to about this besides friends on the phone.

Ive got enough people I can talk to on the phone, but it doesn't make the loneliness go away. At all. I know I should force myself to do things, but i just don't have it in my right now to do that.

Why do i feel this way these past few weeks? A number of reasons. First, ever since my W decided not to go to her internship, communication has been pretty limited (limited for whats normal in our current relationship) Why? I don't know. Also, i just keep wondering how long this will take W to make ANY decision, not even one about our M. But she cant even decide whether to work or go to school or anything..its been 5 months and her current plans have evolved into no plans. So she's floundering too. Yet she can apologize to me and tell me she's sorry I'm going through this??

Part of me wants to just tell her, you left me, you claim you're doing this and that and getting started with your own life, but the truth is, she's not. She never wants to be alone alone, she actually said part of the reason she doesn't want to go anywhere else by herself is because she won't know anyone, she won't have familiar faces. So while she's figuring herself out, she's also playing house with someone else. And his kid, and our dog. So you know what? If she wants to make herself home there, then go [censored] do it. And just leave me the [censored] alone.

But this isn't what I really want.

Im sorry i havent posted too much on other peoples threads, just been pretty down lately. Ill get around to it. but thanks for reading.

[TSquared2]

Hey T,

That is some valuable intel there, and I am glad the stories align pretty well now.

I would continue doing what you have been, following the DB Coach's advice, because there is no way to tell what W may, or may not do.

She IS noticing your changes, and it is throwing her off.

Here's a thread that Cadet put in his new Welcome thread, there is some golden wisdom in it I'd like you to read and ruminate on. I think it'll help you:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=894543#Post894543

Hang in there!!

[Zelda09]

Hi TLEE,

My father was airborne ranger. I had throwing knives in elementary school and could do better push-ups and pull ups than most men by the time I was 8. He was a good man, but menacing and intense as hell even when sober. His parents always said the army made him this way. We all suffered under a lot of his mid-directed skill sets. Verbal, physical abuse and intimidation.

Not to say this is you. But your W writes as though she felt overpowered and lost trust, self-respect. That's a hard thing to come back from. It might be possible but I think this, over the OM, over her confusion, is the primary issue that keeps her where she is.

I can relate to how you feel about her, also. My H looks like a big and tall model, has a soul that is really very kind and thoughtful as his core. He's intelligent and I'd do anything for him. But he has some serious issues at the same time.

I'm glad to hear you're getting your back up a bit, too. Glad you are drawing lines. She is not any less responsible for what happened, even if you are 1st to make changes!

You asked me how to show it but not give it away. It's a tough balance...especially with the self respect and lines you gotta draw with the OM in your sitch, all while proving you really are addressing the you that wasn't there for her. My gut from far away says maybe you do get a chance to sit across the table and tell her what you acknowledge. And let her see the softer side of you. But hold yourself back in a way that says you are distant too, and don't want to be her emotional H while she is playing house. She's got to FEEL that loss and as long as you're there for her and making this slide away easy, I don't think she gets that opportunity. Looking at you, smelling you, seeing what she loves and respects, seeing hope, but feeling that you're a stranger bc of her actions.

I'm in the middle of being right back in the same hair raising bs with my H that made me scream at him to get the F out months ago. So. One if us can change the dance but I guess ultimately you're going to be confronted with a lot of whatever drive you nuts to begin with.

Just know that you are already better and stronger, more prepared for your next relationship or M.2 no matter what she decides. Big hugs, take care of you. You are worth pursuing and loving. Find your joy in being alive.

[Calibri]

I don't know. For some reason the past 2 weeks, Ive been pretty depressed. I don't know what it is or why. I get a feeling of hopelessness and don't want to do anything.

I think you are my male counterpart. For real. So, about two weeks ago -- two weekends straight....I was severely depressed. It was bad. Weekends? I slept. Got up to feed and let the dogs out and went right back to bed and to sleep. I'm started to feeling better -- so I hope that you'll swing that way to. So personal question time. Are you on an AD? If not, would you be willing to look at getting onto one? Mine helped tremendiously.

I want to take time off work, but 1. I don't know if they'll let me 2. I really don't want to tell my boss whats going on especially when Im doing well there and 3. I don't know what I would even do with time off

If I explain the situation, I think I can get some time off. But what would I do? I guess I can go somewhere and get my mind off things..

But I really don't want to explain to my boss whats happening. I don't think Ill get any sympathy (not that I want it) or understanding of whats going on. Plus, I'm actually doing very well at work. I don't want to bring all this extra baggage to the surface. I just don't know anymore. I don't know what its like to be depressed but Im pretty mopey and its hard to force myself to do anything. I miss contact with people, like face to face contact with someone I can talk to about this besides friends on the phone.

Understand completely where you're coming from. Since my BD in September -- I've had to take about 4-5 days off work (not in a row) because it just was just too much to deal with. I've been very candid with my bosses about what's going on -- however, in hindsight, I wish I hadn't been candid as it actually was just thrown back in my face this week. I didn't go to work last Friday due to a horrific migraine. Actually felt really poorly on Thursday and top boss told me to go home if I felt poorly, because I had a busy work week coming up and couldn't be sick. Ended up taking Friday off because I couldn't see from the migraine and was puking from pain. Came in on Monday - and top boss (and this was a total HR violation and has already been discussed) asked what was going on. I explained about migraine and just mentioned that PCP was going to adjust some of my meds because they thought it might be bringing on migraines. Top boss told me point blank that I needed to make the decision if I was going to be divorced or not, get it figured out and pull myself together because I can't be sick in the upcoming months due to a big project going on.

I actually applied a 180 (several actually) and STFU and didn't express my anger right then and there. Later talked to 2nd boss who said top boss expressed that while my work is fine, there's now concern that the physical side effects of stress might be "too much" and now there are concerns if I can actually handle my job and a demotion was brought up. Fan-[censored]-tastic.

So. I would advise NOT telling you boss because you never know how it's going to be received and you never want to put yourself in doubt or your job in jeopardy until it's at a point where your superiors need to know. Just my .02.

If you need a mental health break -- perhaps do a long weekend here or there and go out of town. Camping? Hiking? Get some buddies and do dude things?

Ive got enough people I can talk to on the phone, but it doesn't make the loneliness go away. At all. I know I should force myself to do things, but i just don't have it in my right now to do that.

Ok. I say this with all the respect and good will that I have for you. But, you are hiding in the bat cave dude. I KNOW it [censored]. I did it two weeks ago. And you cannot do this, because isolating yourself will only make it worse. How many times do we have to tell you this? I'm worried about you.

Why do i feel this way these past few weeks?

Because you're tired and run down and feeling defeated.

A number of reasons. First, ever since my W decided not to go to her internship, communication has been pretty limited (limited for whats normal in our current relationship) Why? I don't know.

Ok, I may be in the minority -- but good. And you can be pissed off with that statement all you want. Conversation with your W is bringing you down. You've been mentioning it with several posts. Also, with limited conversation -- she has the opportunity to (hopefully) miss you and not rely on you. Because I believe your conversations are being used by her as a crutch to avoid reality. And honestly? Why would she face reality? She's got your support, love (and money), she's got the dog, she's got a place to stay. She's got whatever she has with the OM/EA, she can just float around under the pretense of "finding herself" (which I believe to some extent she is doing) and there are really no (outright) ramifications to her choices - because she's got support on all sides.

Also, i just keep wondering how long this will take W to make ANY decision, not even one about our M. But she cant even decide whether to work or go to school or anything..its been 5 months and her current plans have evolved into no plans. So she's floundering too.

Armchair psychology moment -- she can't make a decision because she's never had the opportunity to make a decision for herself.

So, she doesn't know how to do it. And in my opinion (my god, I'm full of them today), she'll continue to not make any decisions because a)she doesn't know who the hell she is and b)she doesn't really need to because she's got a roof over her head, food in her stomach, and support from you and her friend.

Yet she can apologize to me and tell me she's sorry I'm going through this??

Oh yes. My H apologizes to me ALL the time about how he's sorry that I'm going through this and it's not his intentions to hurt me. So either he can stop hurting me. Or I can stop putting myself in the position to be hurt. I think you need to start considering the latter.

Part of me wants to just tell her, you left me, you claim you're doing this and that and getting started with your own life, but the truth is, she's not. She never wants to be alone alone, she actually said part of the reason she doesn't want to go anywhere else by herself is because she won't know anyone, she won't have familiar faces. So while she's figuring herself out, she's also playing house with someone else. And his kid, and our dog. So you know what? If she wants to make herself home there, then go [censored] do it. And just leave me the [censored] alone.

So I'm a tough love advocate, and I think you should say something like that to her. But hey - you know, I'm not the model of a healthy relationship right now, so what do I know?

But here's the thing. I think your support and what not is enabling her indecisiveness. You're a fall back plan. She can always go back to you (should she want) because you're keeping the path home paved and smooth (as you should). But (and here comes my proverbial tough love kick to the face -- you've been warned), your W has basically fired you as her H. You're pining away for her. Talking to her. Sending her gifts. Sending her money (I know you told her you wern't going to and what not, but you have been sending her money), supporting her on her "journey". You've morphed from her H to her bff. You keep talking about how your W is amazing and what not, and I have no doubt that she's awesome. But you know what? [censored] that, so are you. And while you should keep the door open for her, should she want to come back, you have to stop putting your life on hold waiting for someone who can't even make a decision for herself. You (and everyone on here) deserve someone who wants to be with you. Who wants to see if it can work. You deserve to be living the life you want. And I know that you want your life with your W. But, right now. SHe doesn't want that. And the sooner you accept it, detach, and move towards the life that you want (knowing that it may not have her in it) the sooner you are going to be in a much healthier place.

I've said it all along, if she walked out on your M. Walked out on you, she doesn't get to get the best parts of you. Does that mean you should just cut her off, and not support her or talk to her? No. But I think you need to treat her like a co-worker or neighbor. Basically -- stop investing the best parts of yourself into someone who (seemingly) doesn't care that you're investing yourself into it.


I'm going to leave you with this quote -- that's been helping me a lot with everything going on in my life. It makes me bohoo everytime I read it, but I find it to be very true. It's from the book "Wild" by Cheryl Strayed.

“There's no way to know what makes one thing happen and not another. What leads to what. What destroys what. What causes what to flourish or die or take another course. But I was pretty certain as I sat there that tonight that if it hadn't been for Eddie, I wouldn't have found myself on the PCT. And though it was true that everything I felt for him sat like a boulder in my throat, this realization made the boulder sit ever so much lighter. He hadn't loved me well in the end, but he'd loved me well when it mattered.”

[Zelda09]

Calibri, nice tough love there. Glad to hear a bit about how you are doing, too.

Sometimes I wish DB/DR had a chapter on how deeply p'od we have a right to be despite all the truths of making changes, doing what works, etc. would that help bring spouse back? No, but it might help some perspective too.

So, so, so many people on this board have told stories of terribly indecisive, lost, unhappy nice-guy spouses. It's not all our fault. We may have loved these people, wanted to protect/save them - and look, here we are still standing. Men stand strong, boys run away. Women take care of their own, girls look for someone to take care of them.

I think of TLEE going through his days, you handling life and death, V and Gan supremely detached in the best way, calm centers of their universes, and everyone else who is doing the work. And all the sh*tty reasons everyone gave us for giving up on the M, or blissful ignorance of how selfish they are. It makes me angry. I feel like most of us are struggling with/mourning a half baked person who never took enough responsibility for their own well being, who ran amuck in our lives after we promised sickness and health and will go on to make a mess of someone else's good faith and love. Was this an issue generations ago? Did adults get to run around complaining of needing to find themselves?

Why does this dynamic exist? Why does it show up again and again?

I guess I'm not a well of positivity either right now, but TLEE, Calibri - I really believe something better is ahead for you guys.