Ganb8te 5 - Escaping the abyss

[gan]

Find all my threads here. Sincere thanks for following along.

In last season’s cliffhanger I put a question out to my DB friends:

So, DB buddies. Right now I feel like I am only applying a fraction of DR, namely LRT. I've stopped the chase (pretty much went cold turkey since June 2014), I've got a life (see above) and I am waiting and watching.

Last time I met up with H was 22 Dec. Last contact was 6 Jan (I text him for his b'day, he replied a week later, I didn't reply). We seem to be in a pattern of meetups ~2-3 months with very little communication in between. When we meet, he seems ambivalent and not detached (e.g. he was frustrated by my GAL plans), light convo is difficult for him. I don’t know if there is OW. Not once has he mentioned D (we can file early May).

The rule is do what works. So the $million question is: is this not working or is it not long enough? Do I need to experiment with a different approach? If so, what? I could use an outsiders perspective…

…which lead to some great input from Jim, Barrybran, Lisa, V, Calibri, Toots and Gg…and left me mulling over these questions:

1. Am I getting close to being done with waiting around?
2. Am I ready to hear the cold truth?
3. Would OW change my feelings on what to do?
4. Is current strategy not working? For who is it not working? Not working to what end?

[gan]

4. Is current strategy not working? For who is it not working? Not working to what end?

It’s been said a lot around these parts that DB may not save our marriages but it will save ourselves. We’ll I feel like I have achieved that. Sure, I still have some days when I am sad, but I know without a doubt that I will be ok regardless of the outcome. I’ve GAL’ed my heart out, worked on areas I know were problems in my M, I have balance in my life that didn’t exist before BD. So for me, the current strategy has worked/is working.

But it doesn’t seem to be bringing my H any closer. The way I see it, there are 3 paths from here:
(A) I can stay in the abyss - keep doing the same thing knowing it is working for me but not necessarily moving H towards me,
or I can try to escape the abyss by
(B) trying a different approach (e.g. initiating more regular contact with H), in which case I risk losing my balance and/or moving H further away (if that's possible); or
(C) by giving up and moving on.

3. Would OW change my feelings on what to do?

I have no proof of OW. What I do know is that at BD H said (from my very first post) if the opportunity were to arise he would like to date other people. At the time H also suggested that we meet every 2 weeks at which point MC called him out for wanting to have his cake and eat it, too. Since then it's pretty much been cold turkey apart from a few meet ups here and there. A confession, perhaps? There are other signs too - he immediately suggested we split finances because he “didn’t want me to see what he was spending it on.”

In the MC session I said I thought that it would be hard to recover from it if he did date, that it would be unfair to me and the OW and that I did not intend to date other people in the short term.

If I knew there was OW then that would rule out (B) - for now at least. I have no interest in interacting with H if he is seeing OW. Would it be a deal breaker? I can’t say. What I can say is that I would be willing to try to do the work to forgive him. OW is a symptom, not the cause. Still, H is a fool for turning away from me rather than towards me to tackle our issues.

1. Am I getting close to being done with waiting around?

Last week yes, this week no. The difference - a mega GAL weekend, filled with a yoga workshop (Maty Ezraty for those in the know!), dining out at awesome restaurants with friends, hanging out at their friend's place overlooking the beach (shrimps did go on the barby). Dating doesn’t seem like such a reach these days. I’m enjoying being more social and meeting new people. I am also curious to know what it would be like to be with someone who took my hand and pulled me into some new adventures.

But I think I should try (B) before I try (C). When I was looking for an IC I explained a little of the circumstance and asked the IC to share their views. The response was "if you have put in 15 years that is a substantial amount and there should be an earnest attempt to make sure that it really is over before you both abandon 'ship' so to speak.” That resonated. I won’t feel like I have made an earnest attempt to make sure it is over until I hear those words from H.

So:
(B) preferable to (C)
(A) preferable to (B) if there is OW, but I won’t know unless I (B) in the initial instance
It’s all pointing to me initiating contact

2. Am I ready to hear the cold truth?

I’m going to take this one on later.

[Sotto]

Hi Gan

That seems a very reasonable and intelligent assessment (and of course I would expect no less from you) - and still with a cliff hanger at the end!

As you know I'm in a similar boat with regards to contact and knowing what H is or isn't up to. Except for me there is (has?) been OW very much involved.

My only comment is that approach B - which doesn't seem unreasonable by the way - inevitably needs you to be ready to hear a cold truth. I'm sure you know this already and I'm pointing out the obvious. I can understand where you're maybe at on that though. If you are GALing and having a relatively pleasant time, it's tempting to lumber along in limbo for a while longer and not risk that blunt 'end' to things. Although it needn't be an end unless you wish it - although it may feel like one 'for now' if it happens.

Just a little question. Is your H an 'avoider' by nature? Mine is, and this may account for him having told others our R is over, but not me.

Glad you had a nice GAL weekend! x

[Ggrass]

Mine ran around and told anyone who would listen our m was over even going so far as to announce it at a meeting!

Just my Instinct, if h doesn't want you to see where he's spending then there is something to hide.

My h has hidden in a fashion the ow, I haven't seen or met her. Others have, but h pretends she's just a friend. He refuses to Intro her to anyone. He lied heaps about what when where etc.

My thoughts is it will all come out.
Ic said" doesn't matter how much you try to hide the truth it has a way of wiggling out."

Eventually things will come your way, patience is the key.

[Mozza]

Your wording of option A (abyss) makes it sound like you are leaning against it. To me, it is your main DB option.

You're looking in the oven constantly wondering if the cake is cooked. It takes time. A man on these boards is DBing his second W, but after the 1st one left him, they were completely NC for six months until she showed up at his workplace with a gift hoping for R (he turned her down).

I also think you should consider dating. According to DB, your assurances to him that you wouldn't date were probably not helpful, giving him plenty of space to safely experience on his side. Dating does not mean sleeping with someone. It means having coffee or a meal with someone new, with a bit of electricity in the air. A very tiny minority of dates end up in bed or in relationships, so you're not mean or deceitful to anyone when you go on a date without the intention of marrying him. Also, you might be surprised. It can be a way to assess your H better as a potential partner by comparing him.

Sorry, I don't know your sitch all that well, but I hope this can help you reflect on your situation. If you follow my sitch, it is more or less where I am, except that the kids keep us in daily contact. My WAW left me five months ago, she's with OM and giving me no sign of wanting to R. Whatever. I do my own thing, I GAL to keep my hurt in check, and I start flirting with women.

[Vanilla]

Gan

My first post got eaten by the Internet monster good thing too.

Was having some problems with your use of the term abyss as it resonates for me with the term abysmal. But in the interim my brain has reframed it.

I remembered the beautiful film The Abyss (which makes gan's choice a really great one) and went looking for my favourite clip of it when the heroine comes into contact with a fragile beautiful sea creature who is trying to communicate. And it struck me, supposing these are not really three individual choices but three facets of the same one?

Suppose Gan does not have to choose at all? She could do all three?

The Abyss then stands for:
A. The search for the sea creature aspect of self
B. The reach to communicate
C. The journey to renew

The film also more apt as it is about repairing an M. This is the amazing clip of the first encounter:

http://youtu.be/xNLtPLFECNw

The image I was originally reaching for was the valley obscured by clouds a French film , one of the most beautiful films ever made although it is about an affair and fascination with an OM. I thought gan might like the link any way, it is about New Guinea. As I know you are a traveller and far too young to have been around to see the original.

http://youtu.be/3N_Lyad5IdM

V

[jim0987]

gan

thats a really well thought out set of answers (what we've come to expect from you) though i thought the cliffhanger resolution maybe needed a bit more peril, some kind of super slow motion fight sequence and a couple of explosions. Maybe a villanous monologue to boot.

Anyways....

Toots is spot on in that try B you need to be confident you are ready for whatever response you get, if your not the continuing A for a while might not be so bad. C without trying B i think might be something you regret later.

you talk about cold truth. is there a version that doesnt involve another woman that would help you move to C?

[gan]

Thanks, Mozza for stopping by.

Your wording of option A (abyss) makes it sound like you are leaning against it. To me, it is your main DB option. You're looking in the oven constantly wondering if the cake is cooked. It takes time.

Actually (A) is my default mode. I know it is the main DB option - I've practiced it pretty solidly for 8 months now. In my case though it translates as pitch black NC, hence revisiting whether this is the best approach with H. I wonder sometimes if I applied that as a one size fits all when in hindsight it is not.

According to DB, your assurances to him that you wouldn't date were probably not helpful, giving him plenty of space to safely experience on his side.

Yeah, I know. This was pre-DB. At that time the only info I found was on managed separations (set time frame, rules on dating etc). Most resources said no to dating.

Dating does not mean sleeping with someone. It means having coffee or a meal with someone new, with a bit of electricity in the air.

Oh I don't know. Maybe I'll give a few ONS a go. That would be a total 180 for me
I think I would be ok at this stage having a coffee with someone who crossed my path but I'm not included to sign up on a dating site just yet.

Sorry, I don't know your sitch all that well, but I hope this can help you reflect on your situation. If you follow my sitch, it is more or less where I am, except that the kids keep us in daily contact.

Yep, I do, and I see some similarities. Biggest difference though - and it is a big one - is the daily contact vs 2-3 months no contact.

[Ggrass]

Sorry gan, but I ticked and nodded yes to most of your post above.

Pitch dark for me, h has an a.

I've been no for ons, now trying it in for coffee dates but I got a couple of no's so I'm just like that's too hard.

I think the old mate whom used to be part of the "group" I ran with in my late teens early 20's would be a good one. I will see him again this week more than likely.

On that dude, I could get away with "been a long while how bout we catch up? Give us your phone and I can put my number in." Knew hime execruonally well and his sister was a very close mate.

Perhaps catching up with past friends not for $ex but friendships and company to go out with, I find sitting alone out tedious.

[gan]

My only comment is that approach B - which doesn't seem unreasonable by the way - inevitably needs you to be ready to hear a cold truth.

Ah, but there is a B.1 and B.2
B.1 is generating doing what I am doing now but trying to initiate a bit more contact. Maybe suggest a meetup and while we are out say "you know, there's a ton of cool stuff on lately, what would you say if I called you up every now and then and suggested we go to something?"
B.2 is initiating contact, with the aim of asking where he stands on things. Has he made his mind up, does he need more time? What does he plan come June when we can file?

Just a little question. Is your H an 'avoider' by nature?

Oh yes. Yes he is. BIG time. He's an avoider plus he's stubborn.

I had to laugh the other day. I was reading Labug's threads again and she said of her H "He likes to describe himself as being stubborn, like that’s a good thing." When my H and I were doing some personal development work a few years ago, he said something very similar.

I shouldn't talk though, I'm also stubborn (not an avoider though). My stubbornness means that I achieve things long after many people would give up - I do think that is a good quality.