BD: W of 13 years advised me shortly after the New Year that she had been engaged in EA for a number of months (workplace romance - alleges she has known AP for two years) which evolved into a PA (although has been stressed to me by W on multiple occasions that PA aspect not really important). See this as hybrid WAW / MLC.
Had tried to talk common sense (3 kids & 13 years) into W to no avail. Pretty much did and said everything that the Sandi 37 rules guide against.
W claims she is in love with this individual, who she barely knows and is ready to throw everything we've worked together to achieve away and subject kids to D (incl. the established adverse effects).
I have tried during this painful 6 weeks since BD to do whatever it takes to keep the family unit together. W agreed initially to counseling but then stopped after a few tries. W agreed to NC with AP during which time it was fantastic (having fun with kids and mind-blowing S). Thought we were back on track until she called him and then told me she wanted D. Even after that contact with AP, had great time for a couple of days (took kids for a trip), until she came back and ran to meet up with AP.
After she ran back to AP, I contacted W of AP (had confronted AP shortly after W told me about A - tried to appeal to sense of dignity but AP ha sno morals/qualms with destroying his & my family).
W of AP was well aware of A and told me her H, the AP was not involved in his two Ds lives so I could not expect him to be there for my kids (my W had told me she wanted D so she could marry AP and live with him and have him raise my kids with her and me). I invited W of AP and her Ds over to confront my W, which they did. Was good for W to see that there were real people whose life she was destroying in addition to my family, that is. She was furious for a number of days.
Mid lasts week W calls and wants to discuss D. I ask what's end goal - living with AP, it appears. I arrange to have a couple of the kids away so we can talk this weekend. I tell her I think it is good idea she moves out - go live your fantasy - just kids and me are going to continue living here. You can rent a place and live with AP but you cannot expose kids to him (but you will need to come here and watch the kids/help). You'll soon find out how special AP really is.
Seems like this arrangement had some appeal to her initially, but then she starts talking about renting on her own instead of with AP, so kids would not be exposed (do not necessarily agree with that). She wants to eat her cake - leave with AP and also keep being a mom. Not really think about the ramifications on kids though.
I thought this difficult proposition would be the best way forward (at least under circumstances). However, W and I have not agreed to anything as of yet - our discussion devolved in a blaming/shouting match. In spite of the heated discussion, it's just been actually really weird - pretty cordial between us today and yesterday (with the occasional complaint) after I pitched the proposition. W is focusing on kids future and talking about things as if we'd be in the same house for a while. But she still is saying stuff like it's too late for us / in love with AP. So, as you can imagine, it's hard to keep one's head straight around here. Kind of reminding me of Groundhog Day - like a bad dream that just repeats itself. All cozy in bed with D2 and W and then wake up every day to same bad dream - one where W says she wants D because she is in "love" with AP (and have kids live with her or her/him).
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
So W is telling you to your face that she wants to be with OM and she's in love with him, but you're still "cozy in bed" with her?
Can you elaborate?
It's impossible to establish hardcore boundaries while also placating your W and being her BFF while she's in an active A. You're at a fork in the road. Which path are you going to take?
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Hi Train and Cadet - thank you for your notes. I will review the links that Cadet has provided. I will also read some more chapters in DR.
As for Train's question re cozy in bed, yes, we are still sleeping in the same bed (W did say at one point that I should sleep in other room, but I refused).
Not that cozy - our youngest D2 as well as other kids in the past sleeps between us. I did try to cuddle a bit last night but W did not reciprocate.
I know that I am asking for more pain by continuing on like this but am having trouble determining the appropriate course of action. I was making strides at GD but faltered (about same time W started talking about future/seemed like she was confused as to her intent). Even last night W talking about installing flood light and planting seeds this spring (which kinda contradicts the whole sell the house/D thing). I even bought an iPad because she told me she would not let me use hers because I was addicted. I figured that if she won't let me use hers and will be moving out, makes sense that I get one. Yesterday, she told me I should return it as I can use hers.
Also, yesterday she calls telling me how busy work is and how sick she feels - looking for sympathy which I want to give her (want to give her all my love), but there is this A going on, right.
I am in a place where I desperately want to but cannot believe anything.
I know that she is at least continuing contacting AP (probably not meeting that frequently of late though - although W has off today). I see that she is taking mini showers in the morning (ensuring she is fresh) - something new.
I want to establish boundaries but want my W too (the old one - not this cold one).
What sort of boundaries / other course of action would you suggest?
So, still living in this alternate universe. W was up early this morning. When I woke sometime after her, she complained about me being lazy. I reminded her of all the work I had done the day before incl. cooking the dinner, watching D7, starting fireplace for W as she has cold as well as getting D7 & S5 to bed (utilizing some validation techniques).
Had a blow up re D7 going out to play in the snow without socks. I told D7 to get socks on before heading out. W heard me calling D7 inside after she ran out without socks. W took it upon herself to tell D7 no socks were needed despite daddy's directive. So, D7 ends up being confused. And I look like the bad guy for ensuring D7 complies with directive. This sort of contradicting has been going on for some time between W and me and has been a major source of aggravation.
An hour later, upon my suggestion, whole family went out sledding. All had great time. Then kids went to school and me to work. W had off today (if past behavior is an indicator, likely met up with AP for lunch or who knows what). W calls on my way to work - mainly just to chat - all friendly on a number of levels.
When I arrived home, found some food to eat and then was interacting with kids. W says she is turning in, that I should do a project with D7 & S5, wash them and get them to bed and read a book (all after 7:50 PM, incl. shoving some food in my face). I asked her help to wash them at least (she had day off), but she says I wanted to watch kids (think she was alluding to my offer to watch all 3 kids at our house and have her move out so she can live her fantasy). She is acting like this is some trial period that she is taking notes on, but in reality she is just squirreling herself in her room (and perhaps texting AP). I see this move largely as a cop out - her way to avoid pitching in. Whatever.
So, despite nice conversation (interspersed with some name calling, arguing or nastiness on occasion), still little affection coming from W. Would like to optimize nice interactions but still make clear that A is intolerable. Just trying to walk fine line between demonstrating that her man is (and always has been right in front of her) and not being a slave or A-whipping boy.
So W wakes up this morning and tells me to make pancakes. I lie to myself - I'm doing it for the kids. W disappears - hides away upstairs (focusing on herself) while I make the pancakes and get the kids fed.
W finally comes downstairs. Says she wants to go out this evening - asks if I can watch the kids. I'm thinking, watch the kids for what? I say I am uncertain whether I can (which she seemed fine with) - may have plans. I ask if she what she wants to do - she replies maybe go to a bar and play some pool. I ask if she was heading out with some GFs. She nonchalantly replies that she wants to go out with AP. She has the gall to ask me to enable that relationship. I am at a loss regarding what to do.
Almost threw out her pancakes but stayed cool and am hiding upstairs. I've had enough of this BS. About to throw in the towel.
That said, if AP and W do not go out, then how will she realize that he is not her knight in shining armor. I mean, she needs exposure. But, it is hard to swallow enabling her relationship (or demise thereof).
p.s. Could use some insight from the folks reading this post. Thanks.
Well I don't get it. Why a man wants to cuddle up with the woman who is cheating on him. She chose another guy over her H, and now H wants to get cozy?
IMO, you have already let too much time slide between the confrontation and now. Do you plan to just go on with daily life as though nothing has happened? It won't win her back. It won't get your M back on track again. This is not a competition between you and OM. Your wayward wife is not the prize.
This is key, you must be the one in charge. You must not dance to her tune. Understand? Even if the A fizzles out in six months to a year, it sure doesn't guarantee the MR will resume as though it was never interrupted.
You started off fantastic. Then I read about you still sleeping in the same bed and doing nothing when she contradicts you to the kids. Then I thought, "Oh no, he's going to be another one of "those" husbands. Know what I'm talking about?
Find that man who had the b@lls to tell her she would have to leave. You can't tell her that and then play house!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You asked me to comment, so I will. I have nothing more for you than what Cadet has posted. The people on this board are very good and supportive and obviously are trying to save thier marriage. I am quite bitter over my whole situation and feel that I wasted time on W and her EA /PA...If I could do it over (and knew what I do now) I would have told her to leave 6 months prior to when she did.
The only thing left for me to do with her is to let the OM know that I know and to let the kids know what happened when they are older and ask.
DETATCH FROM HER AND ONLY TALK TO HER REGARDING THE KIDS, GET OUT AND HAVE FUN.
It gets better my friend. The only way through it is through it unfortunatly....
Love you brother, stay strong.
W-43 H-41 M-19 T-21 Kids S-15 D-13 S-11 OM/EA/PA suspected 7/4/14 Talk of Seperation 7/5/14 Slept in same bed, held each other nightly until 2/1/15 W moved out 2/1/15 I am moving on
It's gotten worse (I know you are thinking, how could it get any worse).
Well, we've started having S again (wonderful S). Even in light of the fact that W asked if I could watch all 3 kids last night so she could go out on date with AP. Fate saw it otherwise, blasting us with snow which put the kibosh on that plan. We're having nice discussion when I broached the S subject and W was game. Then we ended having a frank discussion of what she wanted (now it appears she is not ready to move in with AP immediately - not that crazy in love with him). She then proceeds to cite, going all the way back to the very beginning of our relationship - 13 years ago - all the issues she has with me. Never acknowledges or focuses on the good stuff, just the bad stuff. And when taken to task on her perception of the historical record, she quickly switches to another instance where she believes I let her down.
In any event, both slept well that night (as well as did our 18 month old who sleeps between us) and I woke up to a new day which I hoped had a chance of being better than the earlier ones (those involving A).
However, my hopes were quickly dashed when W asked if AP could come to our house and pick her up (her car was in the shop). I was incredulous. A shouting match ensued (me saying that I do not want that POS around house and kids) and she backed down. An hour or so later she bolts out the door with purse in hand (assumedly with keys) in what I perceive is an attempt to rendezvous with AP in front of a neighbors house. I know, what will the neighbors think? I call to her as she is walking down the driveway - making somewhat of a scene. After a minute or two she comes back in. More arguing (in front of kids ensued). She assured me she was just taking a walk (with her pocketbook). Yeah, right.
So I tell her that if she is stressed with the kids, go to the gym - not the AP (she associates relaxation with him, when it's really just being away from the kids). She says I am trying to control her. I drop her off at her car. Then I take all 3 kids to mass and then to eat out, then home. Four hours later, she comes home saying that she's only been gone for 2 hours. I say if you'd rather spend your weekend away from your kids with some stranger then something is seriously wrong. So I make a phenomenal meal (incl. dessert) after I get back from going food shopping (no she did not do this in her 4 hours of meandering around). Later that night after I get the kids to bed, I successfully seduce my W again. As is par for the course since the A was revealed, S is out of this world. Afterward, W is saying that she does not think we should be having S. I tell her that I disagree as it has so many positive benefits (stress, calorie, free, connection, brings down the virulence, etc.). She is probably right that it is not good for us, but it feels so good on a emotional and physical level. I think I read that MWD recommended S in such situations.
So, that is where we are at now. So, am I living life as if A is not happening. In some respects, yes. I think you are right that I will need to adhere to my own boundaries soon, though. I again reiterated over the weekend, that she needed to move out and that kids would stay here. She is not accepting that, talks about getting L but she is concerned about the cost. So we are in a holding pattern.
What were your W's complaints about you before getting to this point? I specifically ask you, "before getting to this point", because she will likely revise history to justify her A. It is generally script for a WAW to be a history revisionist to justify their choices.
That being said, do your best to identify the true areas that need improvement, and get busy addressing them. This isn't just for this time in your life. It is always about identifying areas that need improvement, and then addressing. Sometimes we get caught up in the monotonous of life, and we put it in cruise control until something awakens us.
As has already been mentioned, GAL and detach. It can't be emphasized enough. Utilize your time wisely.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
