Mozza 1 - 2009 near-separation, search for explanations. Mozza 2 - OM confirmed through kids on Halloween, refocus on me rather than blaming W. Mozza 3 - OM confirmed by W in email, strollergate, W has problems at work, unexpected blind date. Mozza 4 - Lunch with W went well, reflections on being dumped, kids and OM
My story After 9.5 years together, my W announced in early September that she wanted a separation. A week of pleading and begging didn't change a thing. She said I was criticizing her too much, that she was unhappy and no longer in love with me and she didn't want to live with half-emotions. A week later, she had moved out. A month and a half later, she revealed that she was going out with a coworker, met at the new job she started a month before BD (after a year of job-seeking). He's a good listener, 10 years younger than me, better-looking and athletic. He'd been courting her from week 1 and was present throughout her move. It didn't come as a surprise when she told me they were together. He left his gf to be with my W. My kids know and like him.
DBing I accept responsibility for what I did in the M, though I don't always feel responsible for the S because the OM shouldn't have courted a married W with 2 kids and more importantly that she should have told me and resisted. In any case, the only useful path is to reflect on my changes. I need to be less critical and less dismissive of my W's emotions. She had voiced her pain several times before the BD and none of her reasons to leave me (she didn't mention OM) were new to me. I had ignored her and she was hopeless that things could improve. There was more fighting than average in the months leading to BD. She said we were incompatible.
I'm good at being silent and distant, so much that she once called me to ask why I was so hard to reach. The "no pursuing" rule is easy to apply for me because it means doing nothing. What I'm not so good is acting normal and upbeat around her and what I'm awful at is detaching. Two months after she left, I can still feel like she left 10 minutes ago, disbelieving the whole thing is happening. My kids (D6, D3) take to the separation as if nothing happened. _________________________________________________
Success stories Feel free to make suggestions, especially with links to threads. I wish we had room in our profile to tell our story so that the vets and other successes could give us a quick summary.
My W called my parents tonight. This was her second attempt since S and the first time she actually reached them. It was a very positive call. She talked about the lunch we had last week as being very, very pleasant and fun. She said how much we get along, especially regarding the kids (i.e. we're just not good as a couple). She reminisced about good times spent at my parent's house, saying she missed it (my mom said it might happen again in the future - argh quit pursuing! ;-)). She also talked about her recent challenges at work and dropped some information about the kids. She invited my parents to visit next time they're in town - my parents are not so hot about that.
Now, this could be her just "succeeding at S" ("OM in bed, H with kids - everything in its right place!"), but I'll take it tonight as nice baby steps. After all, how much better than this can it be while she's in a honeymoon (I guess) with the OM? It sounds like she'll have nice things to think about when things aren't so good with OM.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Good recap and I do like your reference list of success stories.
Something 25 said prompted this but I can't remember if I've seen a little list from you of what changes you need to make in yourself (and I'll set you the same scorecard challenge you set me). It might be a useful stock take for the start of a new thread
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
My 180s. 1. No criticism. Harder than it looks because it seeps into everything, without me realizing it. Still, I feel I'm doing well on this front. 7/10 2. No control. If it's not life-threatening, I let her do just about anything. She forgets to return some kids stuff? I buy it again. 8/10 3. No pursuing. Until the day she left home, I cried and begged and made it plain I wanted her to stay. Since her departure, it's been much easier to keep my distances and not pursue. 8/10 4. Validation. I used to be a problem-solver and now I just validate her feelings and ask questions, when she initiates conversation about something she cares about (work). 7/10 5. Less self-deprecation. It's part of my sense of humor and general perception of what is humility. Quite hard to change. 4/10
My changes 1. New clothes. Not a lot because I already have tons and they look fairly good. Still, I'm on the hunt for more. 2. Workout: 7 minute exercise daily. I can feel and see the difference after about a month. And the kids love to take part. 3. Body grooming. I now have a cleansing gel, a new body gel, anti-wrinkle care, went to a beautician, let my hair grow a little, groom body hair, wear cologne,... I've got a couple of spontaneous compliments: "You look better, not sure what it is" 4. New recipes. I've added my first deserts, among other things. I'm taking a class this Friday. 5. Daily pic on Instagram. It's a small thing, but it forces me to look around for beauty and it's a great record of my GAL. 6. Record "3 grateful things" daily to focus on positive. 7. Reading about relationships. This is new for me and comes a little late for this M...
2-3 things I want to improve about my marriage (DR, chapter 3) This is delicate because my W has moved out and has a relationship with OM, and to her it's clearly over (I hope it's the fog).
1. Meet for an agreeable lunch at least once a month. Lunch was pleasant and she said so to my parents. Success. 2. Email about stuff that’s important and emotional. She tells me about her work issues and aspirations. At this stage, I say it's a success. 3. Have one email exchange that she wouldn’t show to her OM! Not easy because she initiatives, but I don't think she'd show him that we joked about Kim Kardashian's butt. Success. 4. Getting a positive reaction to her love language. Her LL is words of affirmation. She gave me a capital-letter THANK YOU when I wished her luck for her last day with her boss-from-hell. Success.
Looks like I need a new list. I'm tempted to go for a second round of this one though.
I'll address 25yearsmlc's questions soon.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
I need advice. I'd have to send an email to W. Usually, it would be pretty plain, but in such a sitch... I think it's self-explanatory. It's about school pics and insurance.
Quote:
Hi,
Thanks for the pic of D6. I thought I had ordered the full package, with the small and medium ones, but I might have made a mistake. Are there any left?
Also, for D3 I hadn't ordered any [she sent me tons] but I could keep a few. Do you want the rest?
For the insurance, there seems to be only 300$ available for IC. Have you used it already? [I think her sessions are covered elsewhere] If not, would you mind putting in the claim if I bring you the receipt?
It seems to be a burdensome email full of requests and veiled criticism (you sent me the wrong pics! you'll have to deal with insurance forms for me). Is there a better way to say it or should I just drop it? None of these pictures and even the money are more important than R. I'd like to have the pics for friends and family. For the insurance, we've been exchanging about it for a while -- she brought me the paperwork last week.
Some context. Today, she said she formally applied to her former boss' job. I replied "You go girl!" (in English) to which she said "Just don't call me girl - it makes me feel weird". Anyone else cringed at "You go girl!"? It seemed like a plain idiom, an encouragement. I'm not even sure why she was offended, but I didn't ask. It's possible even she doesn't know.
Her response stung, because to me it suggests that she still doesn't care one bit about me, that she'll crack the whip on me at will. No good will at all for me.
Last edited by Mozza; 11/19/1403:12 AM.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Thanks Hoju. Yes, the insurance is through her job. The job I helped her get and at which she found her OM in 3 weeks...
Perhaps she has already forgotten. I doubt it though - so much tension, so little communication between us. Anyway, I'm not responding, but I'm curious to see what the offense could have been. I'm so careful in my communications, I hate it when I hit a nerve by mistake.
Any more opinions on the email and the line?
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Sounds like youre doing well on your list. Looking at the goals for the marriage I think looking for repeat success is good (consistent actions) maybe add only one small thing.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Mozza 1 - 2009 near-separation, search for explanations. Mozza 2 - OM confirmed through kids on Halloween, refocus on me rather than blaming W. Mozza 3 - OM confirmed by W in email, strollergate, W has problems at work, unexpected blind date. Mozza 4 - Lunch with W went well, reflections on being dumped, kids and OM
My story After 9.5 years together, my W announced in early September that she wanted a separation. A week of pleading and begging didn't change a thing.
Not to be sarcastic, but can you see why a sentence like that ^^^one, is almost funny, now? A "whole week"? Bet you're shaking your head now...
but the thing is, your time line really is a darn short one. I thought you'd been here for years but that's b/c I got confused when you said the problems she mentioned have been her complaints for "5 years". Anyhow, if you are into other people's situations you need to review their timelines as well.
I can't recall ANY reconciliation that took less than several (9?) months. Most took over a year. More than half involved OM/OWs.
Holly and her h reconciled after a few Years (but I THINK she & her h were sep AND divorced, for 6 years Not exactly like a recon that one person worked towards the whole time.
In my own family, I have 2 family members who later remarried their former spouses. As far as I know, neither of my family members expected to remarry their exes. They did not "wait" for the WAS to return. They went about their lives and assumed their marriages were over for good. They worked on themselves (maybe to get back on the market??) and after a few years, they reconnected and reconciled.
So yes it happens. But they all changed/imprved so they would be better at marriage. They brought more to the table, if you know what I mean.
She said I was criticizing her too much, that she was unhappy and no longer in love with me and she didn't want to live with half-emotions. A week later, she had moved out. A month and a half later, she revealed that she was going out with a coworker, met at the new job she started a month before BD (after a year of job-seeking). He's a good listener, 10 years younger than me, better-looking and athletic. He'd been courting her from week 1 and was present throughout her move. It didn't come as a surprise when she told me they were together. He left his gf to be with my W. Just so I know, are you working on becoming a better, more active listener? And didn't you say you began an exercise program or you are getting in shape?
I'm not saying "go compete!", but I AM saying that women need their man to be someone they feel protected by. Being strong and in shape is part of that, and being a good listener is something everyone needs to have. So, these are not hard changes to make and they'd be good for you, IMO. Is it something you are okay with?
I'll write a bit more about that later.
My kids know and like him.
DBing I accept responsibility for what I did in the M, though I don't always feel responsible for the S because the OM shouldn't have courted a married W with 2 kids and more importantly that she should have told me and resisted. In any case, the only useful path is to reflect on my changes. I need to be less critical and less dismissive of my W's emotions. She had voiced her pain several times before the BD and none of her reasons to leave me (she didn't mention OM) were new to me. I had ignored her and she was hopeless that things could improve. There was more fighting than average in the months leading to BD. She said we were incompatible. I'm good at being silent and distant, so much that she once called me to ask why I was so hard to reach. The "no pursuing" rule is easy to apply for me because it means doing nothing.
This is why the "rules" are NOT rules. They are guidelines, guidelines that Sandi assembled one day, and others (including me) have sometimes tweaked. They are based on the DB principles and other teachings by Michele W-Davis...
I don't know why, but many people skip the sentence that says "these are guidelines only and some won't apply..."
I don't think there's anyone for whom ALL the "rules" would apply.
But for You to say "doing nothing is easy for me -- b/c that's 'not pursuing' ***
it is also more of the same old thing from you. It's exactly why YOU should Not apply the guideline of "no pursuit".
Smothering her is the Opposite of Your problem.
Besides Mozza, as a "rule" in life, when you are at a crossroads wondering what to do, chances are great that the choice requiring More effort is the Right answer....
b/c the easier answer, IF "right", would have been handled already. When you are really torn it's usually b/c the "Right choice" is the harder one.
in your case, doing nothing is Not so much a choice, as simply more inertia on your end. No offense, but isn't that part of how you got here? Might you be able to do better/more/different?
What I'm not so good is acting normal and upbeat around her and what I'm awful at is detaching. I don't believe Detaching is possible without GAL (the type of GAL that I hope you'll enter, is the type of
GAL that occupies your mind while you are doing it, AND involves other people as well, b/c that is KEY.
GAL for a lot of reasons, but include Detachment as one of the reasons...and Detaching will Decrease the Obsessing and the anxieties and the critical stuff that flares up when we are Not detached.(And harms our relationships in the world).
Seriously, a BIG piece of why one should detach, is pure protection. It helps you heal and stabilize....so DO GAL and keep that up so you can detach and that will help you have your PMA and model healthy behaviors for your kids, etc.
Make sense?
Two months after she left, I can still feel like she left 10 minutes ago, disbelieving the whole thing is happening. My kids (D6, D3) take to the separation as if nothing happened.
First off, I didn't know how short your time line is. 2 months? Wow Mozz, you are too early to want to quit. This is a marathon, Not a sprint.
Pace yourself! Don't push for so much clarity this early on, or at least get Your Own clarity first, & situational clarity will only come with TIME....you'll fall apart if you don't become a lot more patient. A lot...
Most or even all of the effects of this sep will not be felt or experienced deeply, by the kids At This Time....but if it lasts or morphs into a divorce, the effects will come later. And you may not even know of them.
But don't take the kids adaptability personally. It may even hurt you b/c you'll think somehow it means you are not a big factor in their lives, if they are not falling apart. But that's misguided (and selfish, IF you went too far in that direction). Thing is, even if you were not a very involved dad, your kids will always love you, AND You can develop a closer relationship with them anyhow, by spending time with them.
It's not rocket science, which is a great thing about kids; they mostly just want us to be with them and be interested IN them. That takes time.
Again, don't take it personally if they seem adaptable or happy. In fact, remember to be grateful. If you really think about it, if the kids were screaming and acting out and showing intense pain in their behavior, would you really feel better? Maybe for a minute, but down deep, I know you want whatever happens, to be as painless for them as possible. But if/when your ego gets bruised, remember this... If this "OM" is Not a moronic violent jerk or drug addict, much as we might hate conceding anything remotely good about OM, we have to remind our selves that a decent OP in our kids lives --- is infinitely better than a worthless dangerous one.
It's very premature to wonder about his future role OR theirs. Mozza, when I con template the time you have spent "catastrophizing" your future (going down the worst case scenario ad nauseum and often) and then I realize it's only been a few months (!!!)
I shake my head. Man, don't be your own worst enemy. Let this run its course WHILE You run your course, of self improvement, REPLACING the negatively programmed "I worry, therefore I am" approach of your "old self"
with a New positive optimistic 'happy that good things are around the corner' MAN....
Your new mantra will be on your phone greetings: "I can't come to the phone right now b/c I'm busy going to fascinating places, doing fun new things, & meeting interesting new people. Leave a message!"
Make sense?
So don't fret about OM anymore (really, get the mental "stop sign" out and SEE it in your head and change the topic in your mind. Practice this and it will help you.
You cannot be replaced for your children, unless you "resign" from your position.
Kids NEED a Rock in their lives and they Know who their rock is...
they need a rock to land on for stability, return to for comfort or celebrations, a rock to hold onto in scary times of uncertainty, and a strong rock to spring away from at the right time, launching into their adulthood but having that rock all their lives...like a lighthouse as a guiding beacon in the dark times they'll face...
You're blessed to have the job of being their rock. Don't forget!
_________________________________________________
Success stories Feel free to make suggestions, especially with links to threads. I wish we had room in our profile to tell our story so that the vets and other successes could give us a quick summary.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
