To answer your question, Train, when she said to threaten him a little she meant to make him believe that maybe I have moved on, that he might be losing me.
Thanks for sharing your stories. I love them, they are priceless. Yes, I will always remember the ILYBNILWY speech along with the guilty crying and how our marriage has never been good.
When you talk about acting like I don't care, I get hung up on the details of how to do that. Do I make contact with him (counselor told me not to), do I just wait for him to contact me. When he does contact me do I respond every single time, do I just let it go unanswered a few times? I certainly don't want to act cold and distant.
Trying to keep my chin up and have more work to do to be a bad@ss!
when she said to threaten him a little she meant to make him believe that maybe I have moved on, that he might be losing me. Whew. Ok good. Thanks for clarifying. I agree with ^^^.
Your GAL and being a little mysterious is going to help YOU detach and feel better ... and more independent and sexier and more powerful. And that's what we want!
As for your other question about acting like you don't care, I wrote a lonnnng post in someone else's thread recently to try to explain how I tried to thread the needle between being strong and confident - and laying down boundaries - but also feminine and loving toward H. We don't want you to act like you don't *care*. It's GOOD that you care, and you should be authentic about that. How you SHOW your care is what's important here, and it may be in stark contrast to how you've shown it before or how you *think* you should show it. It's important to show care toward your M - and also yourself. I will find my post and re-post it here soon in the hopes it helps you.
And, oh, you already ARE bada$s. You just have to realize it.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Here it is; forgive the length and babbling ... and the many references to someone else's sitch. Ironically, this person's name is Sam, too, so I clearly don't have to worry about changing *that*. Lol. I hope it's helpful.
A friendly neighborhood disclaimer: Sam, not everyone agrees on approaches around here - and, from what I've read, A's in particular REALLY put people in different camps sometimes on how to DB. Yes, my approach was more firm - I listened to (and agreed with) Starsky probably 95% of the time in my own sitch ... and I agree with him at least 95% of the time still. But some of the things I did - such as exposing my H's affair - does not align with every, single DB principle.
But what I did *worked* to re-attract my H. It also *worked* in that not only do I have my own self-respect in tact, but my H is *treating* me respectfully.
No approach is guaranteed, obviously. I WILL say your sitch sounds a whole lot like mine pre-BD. I'll also say that you (and/or we) can psychoanalyze you(rself) all day long - and maybe you DO have unresolved abandonment issues - but from what I just read, you are a smart, articulate, level-headed, attractive woman who is independent and patient enough to raise your kids on potatoes while your H lives life high-on-the-hog.
I'll also say that the whole "independent, I-don't-want-to-appear-weak-and-vulnerable" thing can make us pretty crappy wives.
There's a balance in there somewhere, Sam. I think it should be high on your priority list to find it.
Let me see if I can think "out loud" here, using primarily my own sitch as an example.
Just like you, I realized, during the separation with my H, that I had lost myself BIG TIME during the course of our M. I had let myself go. And - if I'm being honest - I had become somewhat of a martyr: "I CAN'T go out with friends! I have nothing to wear! I've gained too much weight to wear my pre-pregnancy clothes, and I spend all the money we budgeted for clothes on the kids!!! Waaah! Waaah! Poor pitiful me!" (Okay, maybe I wasn't THAT dramatic, but looking back, that has to be EXACTLY what I sounded like.)
Truthfully, even DURING our M I realized that I had let myself go. But it was always the same excuses: I homeschool S8 and stay home with D3. I'm dealing with two teenagers primarily on my own. I don't have time for me. Did I mention I don't have anything to wear?
And you wanna know something? I just assumed my H was going to stick around, Sam. That's how my parents' M was: they weren't wildly passionate, they hardly ever held hands, they never really had to WORK on their M. They just.showed.up. They were loyal. Period. And I assumed - even though my H had cheated on me once before, early on in our M - that being together 8 more years meant we had everything down pat: maybe we weren't HAPPY, but we would "just show up" until the kids were grown, then we could enjoy life ... and each other ... a little more.
Hogwash.
Who was Sam in the beginning of your relationship? Tell us about who you were that attracted your H to you in the first place. Just from reading your posts, I already feel like I may know ... and that she may be a little lost right now in dirty diapers and juice boxes.
Again, you'll get varying opinions about this for sure, and we can psycho-babble all day long about what came first - the chicken or the egg - when we talk about how *incredibly* disrespectful your H has been toward you. But the simple fact is: Wow. He's been incredibly disrespectful toward you. And you deserve MUCH better than that.
To ask a wife and the mother of your children: "What happened to your boobs?" And to follow that up with: "You need to do something about that"??!?
Um, no. Just no.
I'll be honest: I wouldn't want to sleep with a man who said that to me, either! Gee whiz!
You will likely be surprised to find, though, Sam, that when you learn to like and respect *yourself* again, your H may just follow suit. And if he *doesn't* follow suit? YOU CAN CHOOSE whether you want to continue in your M or not. That knife cuts both ways.
This was my approach, as you probably already know from reading my sitch: Yes, I exposed the A, hoping it would end it quicker once the secrecy and risk were gone. I set firm boundaries with my H. I told him I would not discuss our relationship, or anything reconciliation-related, until/unless he broke things off with OW and agreed to a complete, full transparency plan. He laughed at me and repeatedly swore he was never coming back home. But that was okay; I stuck to my boundaries, realizing I'm a prize, I will be *no one's* "Plan B," and, yes, I was willing to lose my M if he did not end his A. I was not going to be in an open marriage. Period. At the same time, I wrestled with who *I* had become as a woman and a wife. I realized it would be hard to re-attract my H if I continued letting myself go and being a nagging "Old Mother Hubbard" who basically completely shut my H out, even - I'm ashamed to admit - of our bed. I mean, what man would WANT to live with that???
So I started working on ME. Slowly, I started feeling better about myself; I even bought myself a new outfit - complete with jewelry - at least every two weeks. I started wearing a little make-up and throwing in earrings every day. (This was to help me feel better and also proved to be important because my H would find reasons to just drop by the house unannounced ... until I also set a boundary with THAT.) I started meeting up with friends, shooting guns, reading a little more and even planning things to do with the kids on my own ... which was a pretty big deal because we were always cooped up in the house. Toward my H? I became more calm. I wouldn't engage with him. I'd ignore texts that were meant to fuel a fire and would only answer texts that asked a question, presented an emergency or required a response due to something with the kids. But if he was having a "calm" day and would text me something about his work (usually a complaint), I would respond kindly, "Wow. That must have been difficult to hear, especially considering how hard you're working. And just for what it's worth, by the way, I really do appreciate you working so hard and continuing to provide for our family during this difficult time for us all. That really means a lot."
All that to say: I put down firm boundaries that protected my family and my heart. But I also worked simultaneously on being a better me ... not only for myself but for the person I would find myself in a relationship with down the road. And I hoped that would be my H.
I started feeling a lot better about myself; people even commented that I looked years younger. That was mainly because I started feeling good and confident. I reached a place where I knew I would be okay with or without my H or my M. And, no, I didn't coddle him, and I didn't allow him to treat me like a doormat ... which would have done NOTHING positive for my PMA or self-esteem while he was with OW. And ANY self-esteem we can hang onto during these difficult times is worth hanging onto, do you agree?
And what's cool, Sam, is that H noticed the changes - big time. At the risk of sharing TMI, when he came home, he told me one of the things he'd really like for me to do is send him - ahem - pictures from time to time. At first, my initial reaction (only in my mind) was "old Train": "Ew. How immature! That's what high-schoolers do! What if I accidentally send it to the wrong person? Can't you just wait until you get home and see the real deal?"
And then it hit me: Eureka! That's what high-schoolers do! That's what H and I would have done (if we'd had nifty, high-tech cell phones when we were dating). And - punch in the gut - that's what he and OW were doing.
I should note, too, Sam, that when I let go of my own inhibitions a little, I felt sexier and more attractive ... and the other girls out there in the world - even OW - really didn't matter so much anymore.
You're right: The A is a symptom of much bigger problems in the M. But *until As are over*, I do not think you can start working on those other problems. It just doesn't work. Affairs cause people to think and behave *completely differently* than who they'd otherwise be, and there's a physical reason for that involving the brain and chemicals and all that jazz.
Also, you have to get *yourself* in an okay place, mentally. You have to find your self-confidence again. Pursuing a man who's treating you like dirt - even if that man is your H - will NOT help you get to that "okay place," IMO. And until you feel confident in your own skin again, you're going to have a very difficult time showing your H - through your actions - that you're a "newer, better" Sam.
I, like Tarheel, have some really serious concerns about the way your H speaks to and treats you. But I've watched my H go from acting like a disrespectful, spoiled-rotten brat to treating me with respect. But it all started with ME showing MYSELF respect first.
I know I've been all over the place here and have typed a lot about my own sitch, but hopefully it's coherent enough to follow along ... and glean something from.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Train, I was having a difficult day today and your post inspired me. Thank you! My H has been in pretty constant contact with me until last Tuesday when he came by the house to pick something up and to help me with something. I think there must have been trouble in paradise cuz I think the OW must have gotten a little pi$$ed off at how much time he spent here (don't ask me how I know that). He hasn't contacted me since. I just start worrying that without any contact it will be next to impossible to make any R progress.
My plan is to not initiate any contact but to follow what all you have set out in your post above.
One day at a time, but WILL THIS NIGHTMARE EVER END?
What is it about the weekends that are so hard. All I can think about is how selfish my H has become. How he has become some alien that I don't even recognize any more. How I've been relegated to a substandard class of person in his life that is to be disrespected and discarded. Today I felt an overwhelming urge to let him really have it, to really go off on him and unload every feeling he has made me feel throughout this whole ordeal. Sometimes I believe it would really help my situation to yell and scream (or maybe even calmly) ask about the OW, ask about whether he plans to marry her and run off in the sunset, and ask if he has decided what his plans are for us and our marriage. I would really just like to get some of the power back. But this seems to go against DB principle and even against what my counselor has told me to do. How do you cope while your H is out galavanting around town with his whore OW and never seems to have any interest in coming back to the R? Anybody else feel this way?
Well haven't really heard for H since the day he came by our house and OW got PO'd at how much time he spent here. I'm always amazed at how he lets her manipulate and control him. He was always the type that thought men shouldn't let their women lead them around by their b@lls and yet that is exactly what he is doing.
My question for everyone here is how do I proceed when I have very little contact with H? Do I initiate contact at all? Do I just go dark and wait? We do not have children together and no kids at home so we don't have to stay in contact because of kids. Thanks everyone!
Hey MrBond! Well, I've been trying to back off so I have only initiated contact with H maybe a couple of times in the last couple of months and it was for logistical type things. He had been contacting me, though, with cute videos and emails of things he knew I would like or he would tell me things that were going on in his life. That all stopped and now he rarely contacts me since OW got pissed off about three weeks ago, and when he does, its only about logistical type things.
My changes have been that I am much more social and active, something I wasn't when H and I were together. I've much happier and upbeat when I am in contact with H (used to say I was too negative). I've even changed my hair and gone out and bought new clothes (gonna go broke if I keep that up), not to mention I've lost 25 lbs.
New things I was gonna try are to be a little more mysterious and not be so forthcoming with what I'm doing and who I'm with (basically not posting everything I'm doing on Facebook) and just generally not be so forthcoming with my thoughts and plans if/when I do see him. I've even moved furniture around and changed a few other things around the house. I'll try anything!
