URGENT advice needed - 3yrs separated, sky falling

[labug]

He's the father you chose for your children so there's a reason to stay. I don't mean stay married but your kids and he deserve a R.

Well, no f-in clue what the heck is going on now

The same thing that's been going on since 2011.

Getting him to commit to things in writing won't help you.

You've both created this R as you explain in this post:

he's not giving this the attention and urgency it needs which would be so typical for him. And I'm done with his typical, lazy, inattentive, irresponsible, unhelpful, uninvolved behavior. I've been warning him for months now that I'm really reaching the point where I'm fed up with him

And you continued to have sex with him and have another baby.

You've been here since 2011-what have you learned, what have you changed, what are your goals?

[raev]

Sex was a 180 for us. MWD acknowledges in her books that sex can be a valid path toward healing for many couples. So, yeah, we were having sex for a change. H stayed over a lot, we spent a lot of time together, did new things, went new places. We were basically dating, which we'd never done before we started living together. H had said at times that he needed to ease into things if we were going to get back together and have the changes last. But I'm pretty checked out at this point. It took him three and a half years to propose. I've been doing this separation for 3 years, 3 months.

We haven't really been having a lot of sex for the past year and none for a few months now because I really felt like it wasn't making a difference anymore and didn't want to let him just eat ALL the cake. I still don't really know what effect if any that change has had....

As for me, I've done a lot of crap to turn this around and even more to work on me. I'd always taken my own personal growth seriously. It's been important in overcoming the abuse I suffered as a child and coping with becoming a mother as a teenager instead of ending up at Duke. But since my H walked out, I've been in IC for over three years and have never missed an appointment. I've gone back on the only medication that helps with my seasonal depression - which I was not taking for years because it causes seizures and I am an epileptic. So, I'm literally risking my life to try and make things better. (I wouldn't have this seasonal depression at all if I moved back to Florida but I've stayed in the Pacific NW - where the "season" is 8 or more months long - to try and save my marriage.) I've tried more than five different birth control pills in the last couple years alone because everyone I'd tried over the years made me anxious at various points in my cycle which was causing a lot of problems in my M. (I have a latex allergy and so finding a good pill is important for us.) I've read over 40 books on marriage, divorce, assertiveness, overcoming fear/doubt/anxiety, communication, coping with being an HSP, dealing with difficult/dissociative/alcoholic/anxious-attachment-style spouses, books for men about overcoming being victims of pedophilia and abuse as children (my H is a survivor), understanding hoarders (my mother-in-law is a really bad hoarder and it's had a significant impact on my H), helping children through divorce and separation, mindfulness, on and on and on. I've worked on my educational goals. I went through some training in anticipation of re-entering the workforce but with the arrival of our DD, our plans have changed. Even still, I've tried to become more independent. Gone from being a bit of a shut in SAHM to participating in lots of groups and activities through meetup.com and my community center. I've remade my spending habits, organizational habits, and other things that were annoying to my spouse and weren't making me happy either. I've lost 50 lbs and take much better care of myself now. I'm a published poet but had been neglecting my art for a while so I started taking my writing more seriously, went to a great writer's retreat, joined a writer's group, and am very seriously working on a novel right now. All while going through intense work with a chiropractor and recovering from a very serious concussion I suffered in a car accident right after my H left. My brain still isn't the same and probably never will be. But I manage to take care of my S14 and my DD who's nearly 2 without much in the way of help from anyone. I'm taking online classes and will be transferring to university in spring to complete a BA in sociocultural anthropology with a minor in psychology followed by an MA in counseling psychology. Those are my goals right now. That and finishing my novel.

I've worked really hard to be a supportive co-parent and friend without counting on him to help me with the kids or things that need doing. I've extended that friendship and kindness to his friends and am on good terms with many of them. When not focusing on improving my own situation, I've worked really hard to show my love and devotion through actions, since my H is almost exclusively an acts of service LL. I even emptied a gigantic storage unit of our stuff without his help... while pregnant... in summer... because it needed doing and he hadn't been willing to help me with it over the years. I made sure to carefully repack all of his things in separate, carefully labeled boxes because he said he wanted to have his own place for a while and I wanted to make sure that he knew that I was being supportive. I was ok with him doing that for a while because he had NEVER lived without either his parents, his pedophile ex-girlfriend, or me. So, I supported his need to try that for a while and worked to maintain a close, intimate relationship between us despite living in separate homes. I even purchased the things he would need to have our DD and S14 spend time with him at his place. All along, I've made it extremely clear what my hopes were for us and have not been given indications from my H that those were out of the question or undesirable, simply that he wasn't quite ready to move back in together. All of this patience and understanding was a bit of a 180 for me since I tended to be impatient, crowding, and a bit bossy in the past. So, I decided to try letting my very introverted, anxious, awkward H have a little more space. I've done the work, it just hasn't turned out well.

But the fact remains that my H is highly dysfunctional, drinks too much, and hasn't sought help for his depression - which he admits is a problem and played a big part in his leaving. His depression has led him to be abusive over the years, not bad enough that anyone would scream that I should run to the nearest women's shelter, but enough that life was miserable. So, I'm not capable of turning this around on my own. My H and I have been very good friends since we were teenagers. He's a survivor of some pretty awful things. So am I. I understand why he's depressed. We were working together on this before he left. But he wasn't getting along with his therapist. He promised to find another one but never did. I cannot save my M without him being willing to do some work, too. So now that I'm up against a wall on time and finances, I finally gave him an ultimatum, yeah.

I've only stayed this long because things were going really, really well before we got pregnant. H did not want our DD - he wanted me to get an abortion. I told him to go f--k himself. It was unplanned but there was no way I was going to get an abortion and we did not have a good time for the first few months. H eventually came around to the idea - he had, after all, said he wanted a baby just three weeks before he left. He fell in love with our little girl and he was trying to piece at one point but with the new mommy exhaustion, I missed it entirely. That didn't go over terribly well. After that shake up subsided, we started doing really well again. So I've only stayed because it looked like we were getting closer to getting back together. But at this point, I'm out of time to wait and see if things are going to work out and if he doesn't know what he wants by now, he never will anyway, so...

H and I talked on Friday. He said he wishes we could be the sweet, goofy kids we were when we started all this, he wants us to be happy, and he's willing to go to counseling to find out if that's possible for us. That's great, I suppose. But I'm having problems with not getting a solid answer on living situations though. I really need to get on with my life and I need to know if he intends to make it possible for me to do that here or not. I can't - and we can't afford - for me to stay here if we aren't living together. And he knows that. We were ALWAYS supposed to move back down south - my kids are the only grandkids my parents will have, my sister is infertile and misses her niece and nephew terribly and they're all in Florida. I'm not staying here for his stinking career without a real M. I've made a decade of sacrifices for him. That's it. I moved to a tiny, cheap apartment to try and make things more sustainable but H blows money like it's going out of style. I'm fed up. I can't get a good night's sleep because I share a room with a toddler and he thinks he gets to blow money at the pub watching soccer with his friend? BS.

Our separation has dragged on so long that now we're in role reversal. I love him dearly... but I've stopped caring terribly much about our M. I just want a life. But he says he's willing to go talk to someone and wants to see if it's possible for us to be happy. So, hopefully I can get us in for a MC session before I have to give notice at my apartment.

[raev]

To clarify, my H has been paying rent for his own space for over a year and a half, almost two years now. He's been splitting rent on a great big house with a couple he's friends with. We could afford that situation for a while but we can't afford two places and daycare and so we're coming up against a wall. If I want to finish school, we need ONE home for all of us and daycare here or I need to move back to Florida where rent is cheaper and my mom will eagerly serve as free daycare. My H has had his space. Plenty of it. This talk of him getting an apartment came up because his friends broke up - after like 12 years together - and so he needs to move out of the current house. Anyway... just... throwing out some clarification on that point.

[labug]

You've clearly got a lot going on but at the top of that list is your 2 year old D with your H. That changes things, it has to.

(I didn't mean to imply that birth control was only your responsibility. There are non-latex condoms)

You put up with crap from your H for a long time. Why? That's a big question. You've said a few times you have a lot of stuff in your background. Have you moved beyond that, worked through it?

You did a lot of explaining about what you've done but you didn't say much about what you've learned. I didn't ask that to be an a-hole. Lot's of people read books, go to therapy, retreats, etc but never slow down to apply the lessons to their lives. I did that for years. Much of what you describe doing for him sounds more like fixing. There's lot in your post about H's problems and his unhappiness. You can't fix that, it's up to him but he's still the father of your 2 yr old and has been father to your older child for 8 years.

So you do need to figure out what your next step is and realize that all choices have consequences. Really think about what consequences you are willing to accept.

Maybe some plans need to be put off for now and others put in place.

I just read your post about dying your hair-you needed him to tell you what color your hair should be? There's a group called Codependents No More, might be helpful for you.

I wish you, and your kids, the best.

[labug]

I want to add that I also have crappy stuff in my childhood, had an H who drank to much and was pretty unengaged for awhile. I was D for 3 and a half years...

I finally started making progress when I realized how much I was playing the victim and not taking responsibility for me.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't move, but really think and don't make an emotional decision. Make on that's best for your kids and you.

[raev]

I had done about five years of work on getting over my childhood before H and I got together. My dad was instrumental in that. Once I got knocked up at 16, it was a big slap in the face from the universe (and his parents) that he hadn't done so hot. He did a complete, total turn around and really worked his butt off to repair as much of the damage as he could. From the time I was 18 to the time I was 21, I tried 9 different antidepressants and several other combinations. I had bad reactions to all of them but the one I'm on now... which could kill me. When I say bad reactions, I mean everything from debilitating headaches to full blow, nearly-wrecked-my-car panic attacks to hallucinations. I don't medicate well at all. Doctors hate me. I did counseling and lots of art therapy and spiritual work and between that and finally having a good relationship with my dad and understanding what was happening for the grown-ups at the time, I'm pretty well over all that. The unfortunate side effect has been, however, that because I've seen such a radical change for the better in my dad... it's made me a little too patient and understanding of "good people" who do "bad crap" simply because they can't get their emotional selves together. Which is probably how I ended up losing ten years of my life to a cruddy M.

One of the most important things I've learned is that I wasn't assertive. Most of the people who knew me laughed at first. But slowly it dawned on me and those nearest to me that while I was *bitchy* I was not assertive. I could complain like nobody else... but I wasn't good at setting boundaries and getting what I wanted and needed from anyone. My IC had me work through The Assertiveness Workbook, which was helpful. Unfortunately, H doesn't really like it when I'm assertive about something he doesn't like... especially since I look and sound so reasonable when I'm being assertive instead of just being *bitchy* so it's harder for him to just be dismissive and rude. It's strange. H hates any kind of conflict at all. He stonewalls a lot. I still don't get a lot out of him even while being assertive and calm but at least I feel better about my position and requests.

I've learned a lot about why we fought so much. And I learned what I need from a partner to be happy and that's been very important. We have very different love languages. My H is acts through and through. I'm a pretty even trio of quality time, physical touch, and words of affirmation. My H is very bad with all of these. Learning this about myself was really important in healing some residual hurts from my past as well. I had been described as "the little girl no one loved" and it really sums up how I felt growing up. Knowing what I know now about the 5LL, I know that nearly everyone in my life had different LLs than I did and my parents' LLs are the two I value least - gifts and acts of service. The few people I did feel cared about me as a child shared my understanding of love as time. My parents were very busy when I was a child and rarely had time for me. So learning that was helpful both for my M and for my family in general. It's also been helpful that my mom no longer feels she has to flood me with gifts that clutter up my tiny apartment.

I learned that I'm not happy being a SAHM with an introverted H. I'm pretty balanced between introverted and extroverted. But I grew up in a big family. So having my H as literally my ONLY adult company for years was crazy-making. So I've tried to branch out. But the Pacific NW is notoriously antisocial and it's very difficult to make meaningful friendships here. Especially if you're not keen on the culture here... which I'm not. I'm also not a single, childless, pot-smoking, marathon-running, hipster so that might have something to do with it. After three years in therapy, my IC and I pretty much agree that I don't belong here and won't really be happy living so far away from my family no matter what.

A lot of what I've done does seem like fixing. It's just that my H is an acts of service person. I am not. I do not understand acts of service. I just do nice stuff for people. Even people I don't know. So figuring out what would be a sign of love and what is just being stupid and asking for him to take advantage of me has been difficult... especially with no feedback from him.

I don't need my H to tell me what color my hair should be. It just annoys me that I've drastically changed my hair color a dozen times and he never says anything... because he is so *NOT* a words of affirmation person. It just annoys the hell out of me. I live and dye (pun intended) by feedback. I'm an artist and critiques are important. My H doesn't offer feedback - positive or negative - on anything. Which is why I was blindsided by him leaving. Our history together is strikingly silent. Really p!sses me off since I'm a bit of a people pleaser and I'd spent a decade and lots of money, time, and energy trying to *guess* what would make him happy or get his attention in terms of my appearance, events, dates, decor, food, gifts, activities, actions, sex... everything... because he always says he doesn't know. It's annoying. I have learned this: If I can't save my M, I'm never dating another quiet guy as long as I live. Introverted, fine. Won't talk to *me* about stuff? No, that's dysfunctional. I have zero interest in being set up to fail like this again.

As for the non-latex condoms... we tried them initially. Non-latex condoms don't stretch, however, and fit is a serious problem. We gave up on them because we had a 75% failure rate with them. It's also somewhat more difficult to find ones that aren't treated with spermicide - which I have horrible reactions to... which we discovered by trying to use spermicide films. It's just not worth the hassle and frustration and expense (non-latex condoms cost a lot more than latex ones). I think judging by the quick, easily deliveries I had with both kids, the reactions to birth controls both mechanical and hormonal, my high sex drive, and my boobs' ability to bounce back fairly well after a year and a half of breastfeeding... that nature intended for me to have 15 children. ... I do not want 15 children. But I'm not sure I don't want any more than I have now.

As for plans, I'm not putting off my plans for school anymore. They've been put off for 10 years. I've given him my list of *needs* in order to go to school here... and still don't have a commitment from him. I'm still living some place where I'm forced to take medication that might kill me just because of the weather. That's stupid. But... I don't know. I see it as not my problem since moving was always on the list of *our* plans. He's got a single, elderly mother in FL who is living alone in horrifying living conditions and still working because she needs help. And he's here. That's dumb.


My H and I have a very deep bond that is beyond the day-to-day crap that tears apart our M. It's why neither of us has been able to walk away entirely. It's very difficult to explain without sounding like a new age freak but it's very real. He's my muse and my soul mate. He's just lousy at being a human being sometimes. And so am I. We're very good friends and great lovers, too. We're just bad at communication, assertiveness, self-care (leading to resentment, though I've gotten MUCH better about this over the past few years), and conflict resolution, all things that are learned skills.

We have an appointment with a very busy, very expensive, very good, Gottman-certified MC next week. We'll see if it means anything or not. I don't even know if H is serious about going.

[raev]

Today has been about living life as if everything is just... well... life. Sometimes I still have to force myself to do this instead of living in lala dreamland about what may or may not happen with my WAH. I finally got a new dishwasher at my apartment and am on cloud nine about cleaning my kitchen. Tended to some other chores and errands and studied for my class.

H has been staying here all week - since Friday? Saturday? S14 is in a dyslexia program all week and H has been staying over because of that... supposedly. He has dropped S14 off for the program a couple days this week. He did sit in for a little while one morning and let me sit in for a bit one day. But I'm still not sure why he's here. Testing me maybe? Sharing the bed. No snuggles. But no bickering either. He did dishes one day, has helped some with DD. It's been nice having him here for the most part. If he's still here early next week, that will mean something. He's supposed to be out of his current place by Monday. But he hasn't done anything but move his stuff to the garage so the new roommate can take over what was his bedroom. Hmmm...

Life is weird right now. I don't like it. I want something more stable. Scratch that. I *need* something more stable.

[labug]

So what kind of advice are you looking for here?

It seems from your words that you and your H aren't compatible, but you have a strong bond. It seems you have 2 choices, you either learn to live with the differences or be unhappy.

Slow down and let all the past stuff go. What is it you really want?

[raev]

I want my H to love me, let me love him, and commit to working on our M but I've been doing this so long that I no longer want to fight for it anymore. I want to be happy. I want a stable life and home. I want a fulfilling relationship. I guess I've been especially sad lately because I realized... I don't want to do this anymore. I'm tired. I don't want to abandon my H... But I feel like I don't have a choice. He's pushing me away and at the same time giving me just enough that I could stay stuck in this situation for years to come maddeningly hopeful that things will work out. I'm a time person. But what does it say about how much I love myself and how I allow others to treat me if I stay here and keep doing this? What kind of example am I setting? There's doing the honorable thing and then there's being foolish. I think I've crossed that line... a long time ago. Two years ago. I want the f-ck out of this situation. I'm grieving the end of my M... again. And I need this to be the last time.

[raev]

Well, negotiations with H completely broke down, largely because he didn't offer any suggestions at all. Literally, none. He talked a lot. But didn't have anything to offer. I tried to be as patient and helpful as I could but it's not my responsibility to find solutions for *him*. And then he decided he didn't want to go to the MC session. So, that's that. H has gotten so dysfunctional lately he's landed himself temporarily homeless... again. I really don't get it. How can you be so conflict avoidant, so averse to making decisions, that you end up without a place to live? I guess he's staying with friends for now. I offered to have him take over my place since I'm moving and it's not too big for him, but haven't heard anything on that point yet.

So, I'll be relocating with the kiddos in about a month. I still don't plan to file, but... I suppose we'll see how that goes. I won't be able to file in FL for a while anyway. Maybe that will give H some time to think. Maybe he'll come to his senses after a couple months.

Going home will be good for everyone. All the grandparents are there, aunts, uncles. Kids won't be stuck indoors for nine months out of the year anymore. Looking forward to it. And it will be nice to not have H around yelling at everyone every few days. Pretty excited about my plans for life in FL. It will be so great for the kids to get out of stuffy, moldy, NW apartments. Looking forward to taking the kids to the beach. Can't really do that here without worrying about all the radiation from Fukushima. Will be nice to grow fruits and veggies for my kids, too. By next summer, I'll be juicing my own produce.

I'm really sad that things with H took a sharp turn for the worse. We'd been doing so well, had plans for the summer... really thought we were finally getting close to getting back together. But, as usual, as soon as we get close to something real, H sabotages it. I'm tired of the roller coaster. It's time for me to really GAL.

I know a lot of folks will say that I shouldn't move so far away. We were always supposed to move back down south and H decided he didn't want to move to Raleigh - which was my compromise since there's more industry for him there. I'd rather be near my family. I've been in WA for nearly 10 years now. I don't like anything about it. I especially despise the culture here. I don't want my daughter growing up in this place. The climate literally makes me ill... And despite my real, sincere efforts to get out and try to GAL here, I just can't. I have no connection to this place at all. I really dislike it here. I've been surprised how different I feel when I visit my parents back home. It's hard to describe. I just feel grounded, less scattered and disconnected. And at this phase of my life, I sure could use those bear hugs from my dad on a much more regular basis.

Florida isn't my final resting place to be sure. But, there's a good opportunity to rebuild *ME* there. It's the next phase of my life - getting back to my roots, my family, the real me, and building on it with what I have, where I am, really getting my core self solid and firm so I can go anywhere and do anything and be satisfied. I want to master that... so I can teach that to my kids. I haven't been able to do that here and H hasn't either. It's the source of a lot of unhappiness for us and everyone around us. So, I'm going zen - get back to basics and build, build, build.

Maybe I can get out of H's storm enough that I can offer some help to my MIL who's been living alone in a horrible dump for years. So not right that H let's her rot like that. As long as it won't cause a lot of drama, I think I'd like to get my hands dirty and help out. We haven't always seen eye-to-eye and I don't respect a lot of her choices, heck, I'm not even sure I could say I like her... but no one deserves to be stuck living the way she has been, especially not a woman with a strong, capable son with some means at his disposal. I've got friends who can help, so... we'll see.

Lots of work to do between now and the end of the month. Pretty overwhelming. My mom might fly out to help with the kids so I can get it all done. Hope so. I'm in a bit over my head and to be sure this is one move H will not be helping with. Most sad about my plants. Can't take them with me, really. They won't survive the trip in the hot car. That and I'm really limited on what I can take with me unless I want another big loan from my parents and I'd rather save that for something more important than moving junk. I'm ready to start over without all the stuff.

Life quickly gets much more simple when everything you own gets put through the "Is this important enough to take up space in the 5' x 8' x 5' uhaul trailer that is pretty much ALL I'm keeping?" filter. Two weeks ago? I had 8 bins of holiday stuff. Now I have two. And I'm still pretty sure that's at least one bin too many. A year ago, my books took up the entire back wall of a giant moving truck - roughly 60 boxes. Now? I have just 8 boxes. My craft supplies? Ten bins down to one. And you know... I don't mind getting rid of all this stuff. It's just stuff. Most of it is stuff I bought for the wrong reasons - mainly because of my bitterly unhappy relationship with my WAH, my attempts to get his attention, look interesting, or keep busy so I wouldn't have a total breakdown.

Now? I'm finally going to go home and build my little house. Next summer, life will be drastically different. I'll be well on my way to finishing my BA, finishing the rewrite on my novel, living in my funky little place, weeding my garden, bathing my dog while my little girl splashes in a kiddie pool. We won't be able to zip off to ball games and I'll have to give up a few things, but... it's worth it. I want a quiet, happy, soulful life, not all this noise and distraction and disconnect. I want to teach my kids that there's a better way to live, where everyday doesn't feel like a prison sentence. Feel like I'm finally getting there. And I guess in a strange way it's good my H left or I might not be on my way to something better right now. Kind of wish I'd given up sooner but at least I know I tried. Maybe he'll follow, maybe he won't. But at least I can go be happy now.