NEW LIFE / NEW ME - BREATHING

[Fartiltre]

Old thread here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2416836&page=1

[Fartiltre]

It seems like an appropriate time to start a new thread. Old one reached 100 posts and I feel change these days. My urge to please W is shifting towards pleasing my children and me first. This is not to be read as if I do not want R, but mainly I want my children’s and my own life sorted out in a way that will work if R does not happen.
I will continue to hope and wait – but this can’t be the center of my life anymore. I will not hold back on decisions or needed actions only because they might work against R.

I want to continue this journey. I want to evolve, become a better man and farther and that is hard when W is influencing my decisions and actions to the extent she has so far. I need to let her go, but mainly I just need to make the opinions and feelings that I mindread out of her, to count less in my daily life. She is the loving and nice mother of my Ds so I care about her and wish her all the best in life, but she is not my GF and she is not my friend.
I also need the time I spend wondering about what, when, if regarding her to decrease – it simply takes up to much good time in my life.

I am still not even close to being detached but I do believe that the change I have felt during the past week is one big step in that direction. I feel peculiar in some odd way. It’s almost like I went confused to bed and was totally clear-minded when I woke up few days ago.
I have an appointment at shrink Tuesday the upcoming week and look forward to talking to her about this.

I have a few issues that I need to address and the financials is the biggest of these. I need to increase earnings or decrease spending’s. Secondly I need to find confidence in the decisions I make, that in some way also concerns W. Thirdly I need to be more focused at work – that will make me money but it will also raise my overall happiness simply because my to-do-list will turn into a have-done-list. I also need to look into my general to-do-list and then I need a bit more evaluation concerning my goals in life.

Last but not least I need the change I see in me to sink in. This week I realized that one major change is the consciousness or deliberation I feel in many choices I make today. Prior to BD I acted on feelings and habits. Now I act after thinking but I feel capable of acting or responding much faster than 1 month ago. This has nothing to do with W – this is at work, with my friends and even more important with my children. I communicate in a totally different manner and make choices that are so far away from what I would have done a year ago – and it is starting to feel natural and I do feel good about it.

In regards of W I will continue being dim with a little tweak. Dim means that if I have something concerning the children I will address it. I believe I have to be more straight-forward than I have been. I ask about Ws opinion every time and also before I state mine – that will have to change. I won’t contact her about anything else. The tweak is that when she contacts me I will (continue) to ask about her general well-being, her job or likewise. If she asks about me I will answer instead of just going with “fine”.

As always all of the above is a picture of my current state of mind – might change tomorrow! To me the most important thing is that it will change – once I stop changing I stop evolving and that I can’t allow.



Sandi,
I am glad that you think you understand the issue about S10s birthday. Still, you are free to ask for clarification if any needed!
Thank you for still following my trail


3BM,
I do not disagree with LTH nor you, but I think the case is that I see myself as D and I simply do not feel like making decisions that are mainly supposed to please W anymore just because I want R. Please do NOT read this as me not wanting to please her! I want her happy but I do not want to step to much out of my own or the children’s life to do this. I didn’t do Christmas eve as an example. That would have been great this year for the children, but BD has happened and I do not believe in slowing this process down by playing family. I believe that will just hurt the children even more later on. That’s my personal opinion and not to be taken as any kind of general advise.
I will continue to be kind and nice towards W – I have no reasons not to. I do still feel like doing stuff with her and the Ds and I will still invite her to “events” but I feel I have to draw a line somewhere in all of this. Christmas was one and S10s birthday is another.

I do not know if W wants to do things together. She hasn’t invited for a long time and she declined my last invite. This may be due to her being angry because of the changes she sees in me. She has every right to be exactly that, but I hope her anger, if any, will decrease in time. That will be better for Ds, her, me, co-parenting and chance of R, but I also accept that I can’t do anything about this. It is her choice and her feeling.
It might also be due to something simple like her not wanting to be in a swimsuit, me not responding as she expected first time or my opinion on her family-relation with S10 – IDK! I would like for her to join up but it is for her to decide. I will go either way and make it a blast

3BM. I sincerely thank you for taking the time to advise me on this. I hope the above makes some kind of sense

F

[lovethehub]

F,

I think our point is that the choices you are making indicate to your W that you do not have any interest in R. So to 'wait and hope' while making choices that take your further from R doesn't seem like it would work. It is your choice what you do, we are just pointing out how it looks. If it looks that way, W will take it to be that way. What you say you want and what you do are in opposition to each other.

[sandi2]

Yes, you have made a lot of change since first arriving to the board.

In your very first post you stated you had not been happy around W. You did not make excuses for your lack of time or attention she and girls needed. I have no doubt that you love her and your children. But could you explain what you meant by not being happy around her? Did you feel she did not bring happiness into your life, or did you feel depressed when in her presence? Or did you mean that your thoughts were on other things (business, etc.) and you failed to demonstrate happiness while around her?

I think you still love her and believe it would be best for the children if you R with her. However, I have seen a lot of change in how you talk, especially the past two months. I believe you are beginning to like F more, which is a good progress from when first arriving. You are speaking up and making decisions that doesn't necessarily involve W nor her approval. And even when some of us may not agree, if you feel solid about an issue...you stand firm. So far, you have. continued to listen and give consideration to thoughts of others. As long as a person can do that much, maybe it prevents them from becoming closed minded.

I am wondering if you are out-growing your W. You mentioned she didn't like all the changes in you. And we talked about some reasons she could experience anger at some of those changes. But I'm not talking about that now. It's like when couples get M at a young age, and they have still have some growing up to do. They either grow together or they will grow apart. Make sense? So even though you still love and believe she's a good mother for your girls......you often sound, to me, that you are progressing -- while she hasn't. Which I think has been rather surprising for her, you think?

Once, you were so eager to stop her leaving and then to R. But then you began making positive changes in yourself and it was almost like a new world opened. You were no longer "dependent" upon a relationship with her for your happiness or completion. In fact, at times you sounded a little negative in talks of R soon. By that, I mean you wanted to progress more......maybe indepently from a relationship with her. For a while I thought perhaps you were trying to accomplish some unreachable goal of the man you wanted to become "before" trying to reconcile with her. But now, I wonder if it goes further than that, and if you have in deed past her in your journey.

I don't know it to be a fact, of course, and I am not trying to plant some idea in your mind. You will always love her, in part, but does she have a future with you as your W? When you were talking about S10's BD and seeing five years down the road with possibly a new GF and maybe her with a new BF, etc., it made me think along this line even more. I mean, I remember telling you it could take a long time to R....but you are not seeing it five years from now. IDK, that just spoke to me. But, maybe I'm completely off base here. Certainly nothing that requires any decision making from you. I just keep noticing things like that getting stronger in your postings. Seems as if you are more contented without her, even though you still love her. If that is anywhere near the truth, I bet you are more surprise than anyone.

[Fartiltre]

I had a pleasant weekend with children.

W called today just to ask how we were doing. I told her about our doings this weekend and that all was good. Once again she almost ended the call there but I picked it up and she talked for some time about what she has been up to.
Then I went over a few practicals about kindergarten.
Finally I told her that D6 would like to go swimming with me and S10 tomorrow, but that I knew W hadn’t seen her for some time so I would understand if she declined. She didn’t but said that I would have to bring D6 to her after swimming and I declined that and told her that we will just find another day.
Talk was as always nice and pleasant.

I need to work on my sleeping routines. I found myself being a little grumpy towards the children today and that's only because I didnt get enough sleep last night!


Sandi,

Yes, you have made a lot of change since first arriving to the board.

Thanks! This, coming from you, might mean more to me than you can imagine!
I do feel the change and I am really starting to feel it sink in and becoming a natural part of me – the way I respond to people around me is so different than few months ago and I like it.

I am starting to trust in me and my own beliefs, feelings and decisions to an extent I haven’t known for a long time. That does not in any way mean, that I see myself as capable of making the right choices regarding a WAW. I lack knowledge and experience in these matters. What it does mean is that I am starting to know and like this new F that is building up on the ashes of BD. I am not there yet and I believe I still have a long way to travel, but the path before me seems so much more enjoyable than the one behind me. Two months ago I still struggled, I was and felt insecure in every action and thought, I was hurting and my out view on life sucked. That is was has changed and all though the insecurity and confusion still rises it is NOTHING compared to earlier on and my out view is so much better. I am no longer working me to survive, I am working me from a decent starting point and because it makes me feel good about me.

I will still listen to advice from you and I will still follow it as we agreed many months ago, but I will not put myself aside to the extend I feel I have done earlier on. I believe in the decision I made about S10s birthday! I believe this to be the best decision for me and the children – that’s why it has to be this way. I believe I have tested this view in here, with friends and shrink to really try to challenge it. The last “challenge” was discussing it with XW1. I am at a point where I need arguments and if they are given I will listen, think and if they outweighs my own – I will change my mind. I was a stubborn, close minded and withdrawn pr!ck – I will never go there again.

I want to R with W, but it will have to be R between this new F and some woman that I honestly am not sure I know anymore.
I love the thought of W and I love the thought of me, W and Ds living our life’s together as a happy family but to be honest I do not know if I love W at the present moment. I miss W around me and around the children, but I don’t know her! I haven’t had a deep talk with her for months, I don’t know what she does in her spare time besides what she posts on FB and a little hearsay – and I can’t tell if I love a woman that I have no contact with. Yes we communicate a lot and it is pleasant and nice, but we do not really talk!
I have realized that even if she wants R there will be a long road ahead of us and the first step on this is learning about each other and finding out if we are able to fall in love all over. I have changed and maybe she has as well – it will be like meeting up again if it happens.
I have no doubts that the woman I would most like to love is W, but if I am capable I can’t answer. Some part of me will always love the woman that left me and some part of me will always love the thought of the family – right now that part is bigger than my doubts about chance of R and therefore I will still stand, but at the same time I won’t put my life on hold anymore. That has to stop for my own sanity and for the life of my children and me. I still have patience and it simply wouldn’t be fair to W or my children if I gave up now. I F’ed this up for a long time and she stood it out, hoped I would change, gave me the benefit of the doubts for a long time – I hope I have the strength to show her the same.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I don’t want W back but I would really like a chance to getting to know (and perhaps seduce) this loving mother of two lovely Ds.
I do hope she has changed – otherwise I think it will be almost impossible to R. Thereby not said that I won’t try!!

In fact, at times you sounded a little negative in talks of R soon. By that, I mean you wanted to progress more......maybe indepently from a relationship with her. For a while I thought perhaps you were trying to accomplish some unreachable goal of the man you wanted to become "before" trying to reconcile with her. But now, I wonder if it goes further than that, and if you have in deed past her in your journey.

You are absolutely right again! I didn’t and still don’t feel ready for R with W. I am still feeling a lot of change in me and if R has to happen I need to be more stable and steady going. I need to get closer to the man I want to be. Changes need to sink in and become a natural part of me. That won’t happen tomorrow but I hope I will get close enough by the end of this year. Have no doubt that if R is possible, it is one of my greatest wishes for my children, W and me.

Whether I have “outgrown” or past W I simply can’t tell since I don’t know her, her views or her life. I would guess that she has changed in many ways, but on another level than me. She is so much more active with friends, before she moved she took active step to sort out her financials, she has just moved her business so she have people around her…she has done many good things, but if she has or will start to dig into herself and not only look at “practical’s” I don’t know.
I do believe that my doings since LRT in august has surprised her and made her think WTF is going on and if she is pi$$ed because of my actions, she has every right to be this. I have the bigger part of the responsibility of BD and if I had done this prior to BD, I believe it wouldn’t have happened.

I don't know it to be a fact, of course, and I am not trying to plant some idea in your mind. You will always love her, in part, but does she have a future with you as your W?

I hope so, but I won’t live my life solely on that hope anymore. It’s like hoping to win the lottery - that doesn’t mean I won’t go to work to make a living until it happens
I am not active on the market…but if some nice woman wants to hold hands or invite me over for tea I believe I will accept….not to “jumpstart” W…but maybe to “jumpstart” me. I am not seeking any womans love, but Ws at the current moment.

When you were talking about S10's BD and seeing five years down the road with possibly a new GF and maybe her with a new BF, etc., it made me think along this line even more. I mean, I remember telling you it could take a long time to R....but you are not seeing it five years from now.

I am hoping that W and I will be together in five years, but I can’t live my entire life on that. I can’t hold back on life or life changing decisions, because I hope to R with W. I can certainly hold back on minor decisions and go out of my way to some extent, but in general I believe I need to look at my life, as W is not coming back. That should be the foundation below my decisions. I will try to look at her as any other woman I could have a crush on. In what way and to what extent would I differ from normal behavior to show my best side – I will differ to the same extent when it comes to W.

IDK, that just spoke to me. But, maybe I'm completely off base here. Certainly nothing that requires any decision making from you. I just keep noticing things like that getting stronger in your postings. Seems as if you are more contented without her, even though you still love her. If that is anywhere near the truth, I bet you are more surprise than anyone.

I am surprised these days, I would even say scared in some way. This holding point in my life – to get W back – is changing or diminishing and it has been one major solid pillar in my life for a long time. At the same time nothing has changed but my view on W – she is a woman that just happens to be the mother of my two Ds, but besides that she is “just” a woman! I still want R or at least the chance.

I do feel contended without W these days, but I still hope to find myself even more contended if R happens and therefore I still stand!

And to end this essay – an answer to the first of your questions

In your very first post you stated you had not been happy around W. You did not make excuses for your lack of time or attention she and girls needed. I have no doubt that you love her and your children. But could you explain what you meant by not being happy around her? Did you feel she did not bring happiness into your life, or did you feel depressed when in her presence? Or did you mean that your thoughts were on other things (business, etc.) and you failed to demonstrate happiness while around her?

I was withdrawn, giving her the silent treatment, didn’t share my thoughts, was grumpy, tired in the mornings and so on…I did not bring happiness into her life mainly because I shut her out of mine and did not participate in hers and children’s life as a loving farther should do.
There are lots of reasons for this and her behaviors or lack of same is one or many of them. This is not meant as any kind of excuse for my behavior – just an explanation. I need to get deeper into the explanations than I am because knowing what tricked this in me will help me prevent it from happening again.
Bottom line is: I was not happy and I blamed her and showed her through my actions and therefore I failed in showing happiness.


Sandi, I apologize for the length of this post. It just seemed like some very important issues and I felt like really trying to explain my view. I do hope you will ask me to clarify if it isn’t clear or ask me questions if you need expansion on something or if I forgot to answer anything.
I really do hope this makes sense in writing – it makes sense in my brain but that’s certainly not a guarantee of anything! I also hope you will still advise me in this and especially that you will tell me where you see this going. Do you still believe in me continuing the tweaks – should I increase or decrease perhaps?
I hope you will throw some of your experience my way if you have ideas

I am so very grateful for you still sticking with me, asking me this kind of questions, making my head spin and helping me stay on the path!
I am indebted to you and I wish I could send you a major bouquet from my garden when spring arrives or even better hand it to you and give you a major hug!

F



LTH,
The above part about the bouquet and the hug goes for you as well

What you say you want and what you do are in opposition to each other.

I have to respectfully and politely disagree to this but only due to the shift I am feeling in my priorities.
I really do understand and agree to your POV about me showing W that I am not interested, but this is how it has to be about the birthday.
This is not about me showing her that I am not interested – this is about me looking at this on a more long termed basis. I can’t do both in this case and I am at a point where my own and children’s daily life is more important to me than how W interprets my actions.

I hope my post to Sandi above to a reasonable extent explains why I made this choice. I am not interested in showing W that I am not interested and I am not interested in pi$$ing her further off, but this will do both. Point is that the cost of not doing this in this particular case simply is too high.

A friend has recommended that I try to explain my view to W but right now I believe that this will only lead to arguing. I would love for W to understand my view as XW1 said she did when I told her she won’t be invited to Ds birthday if at my place.

I also hope you and Sandi will help me finding a way to show W that I am still interested in R.

Thanks LTH, for sticking with me and for helping me through the hardest of times!

F

[Fartiltre]

All though I am feeling better and better, I got proof today that I am not detached at all. At the same time I feel change – it’s almost like I am capable of looking at her doings, saying and writings as a bystander before I react or respond. After an interaction my head starts to spin and the analyzing starts – mindreading I know! It seems impossible for me to stop this at the moment, but I am very aware of it and try not to act on any of it.

I have had a bunch of interactions with W today since she had some e-mail problems and we needed to sort out the winter-holiday and the birthday party for Ds.

I do NOT see even the slightest of cracks in any wall – at all, none, zip, zero.
It hurts me to organize these two things because I see all the cr@p and hurt this situation injects on the Ds and all the troubles that follows in day to day life. I do act-as-if and I do it quite well IMO. W is all business like, pleasant, nice and somewhat upbeat during these talks.


Here is an example of an e-mail. It is hard to translate.
I sent W a mail at 9AM and she replied at 11.30AM

She starts out by writing that she has put her answers in my e-mail in the colour red so in the below the black is my e-mail at 9AM and the red is what she put in at 11.30AM
Wording is nice if I lost this in translation


Here’s some suggestions / wishes / questions :-)

Next week I would like to have the girls an extra day so I can take them to XW1 Tuesday evening – will that be ok?
OK

I would like for us to agree on some kind of system around the Ds birthdays so this will turn out best possible for them but also so that we/they knows what will happen. It is my opinion, that they should wake up and go to sleep the same place and thereby also that we have them every other year – What is your opinion? I do also think that the D should be together on these days so if we change the schedule I think it should be for both.
I think it is so fantastic to be woken up on ones birthday.
How about we continue so you arrive here early on both Ds birthday and we wake them up together.
Bring S10 if possible!
Then we can have breakfast and unpack presents all together.
Next year I will come to your place and do the same.
And YES, this can continue if somebody else enters our lifes ;-)
On the day it would be great if we can have dinner together. Then we have time to sit and talk about the day and end it in a good way.

D4 is at your place this year
[Date] I hope to drop by at some time, but I would like to know your thoughts about the day and me (when and what – just so I can reserve it)
I think we should do something at kindergarten on Friday. We should do some food that’s easy. I think both of us should be there. I believe it will be for 2-3 hours.


I think birthday party for the Ds could be on [date], [date] or [date] - I can do all three days and would like it booked.
All are great for me :-) Who do you think we should invite…?
I would like for MIL, SIL and the [BF and H]. I think it will be a good time for XW1 to attend, since this is NOT near family.
I also think that [Mutual friends] should be invited and the off course [Neighbors]. What about your aunt?

D6 wakes up at your place on her birthday and then goes to mine in the afternoon – I believe that should be changed so I have both girls on day less that week. I think it is best for them to have their birthday at the same place in the same year.
Agreed

I would also love to drop by on this day if you agree to the above.
We also have to figure something out for her school class, so it would be super if you can reserve the day.

We can take this on the phone so do not see the above as anything else than a starting point ;-)
;-)


In one of the convo’s I told her that I would like the birthdays to be sorted out. Her first answer to this was that life changes all the time. I didn’t reply to this with anything but continuing to sort this out.


We also got the winter holiday settled – also here she was very amicable. She hasn’t mentioned my invitation about going to the waterpark at all.
I believe we talked on the phone 3-4 times today and exchanged several emails and texts.
I also saw W this morning when I dropped of the bags. I reached out for a hug this morning and she responded nicely to this.


I could/have mindread a lot on the communication today, but mainly I see a woman that is detached completely – she seems totally gone!
Either her eyes are shut to all the cr@p or she is doing a fantastic job at acting as if, but then again – so am I!

Otherwise a pleasant day – not that the above is unpleasant! I didn’t get that much work done due to the above but S10 and I went swimming, cooked a nice dinner and watched a movie.
Tomorrow I have an appointment at shrink and I am looking forward to that!

[Fartiltre]

I had a good talk with shrink this morning.
She thinks I am doing well and then she put some good words to the state I find myself in these days. She told me that she sees me as wery recipient to advice and very action-oriented – I actually do the things I tell her I will. She also believes that every time I let W in a little I get hurt internally in some way – I hope she is wrong, but fear she is right. If that’s how it is I need more time and patience, and furthermore I need to keep W at arm’s length.
I won’t see shrink until start of April – unless I really need to, but right now I believe I need some weeks to get this new me/new feeling of who/what I am to sink in.

I called Ws cousin today about the invitation. We talked shortly and then I asked if he had asked W about her opinion on inviting me. He had not and asked me if he should. I told him that this was entirely his decision, but I would feel better if he did since I didn’t want to cross any lines that might hurt W and this is her family.
He understood completely and told me that off course he should have done this.

Then we ended the call and to min later he calls back after having talked to W who had stated:
“No problems at all”
“I think F has the Ds so I will call him and see if we should drive all together.”
“It’s because there is no problems at all”

My second talk with cousin lasted two minutes but I think he told me 5-6 times that W had said there no problem or likewise. He didn’t tell W I asked this of him.

So it looks like I am meeting up with a big part of Ws family in two weeks.

[Wonka]

Wanted to bring this over from your earlier thread to here in response to 25's comments.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
F,

I'd like to piggy back 25's comments about the family dynamics within your own family.

Ya know, sometimes it is the adults who really over complicate things and just plain f*ck things up for the kids. This isn't about you at all. You're just operating from the vantage point of having your nose out of joint and venting your frustrations on to XW1 and the children. Has it ever occurred to you that your children DO have a say in their relationship with XW1?

Gosh, I've had some cool relationships with adults when I was a youngster and only have to seen them destroyed because of some f*cked up notions dreamed up by the adults just because "it is not just how it's done" or "just the way it is." What a feeling of dis-empowerment! Not a fun experience as a child/youngster.

When I was a young babe, I've had my own birthday parties when both my natural mother and stepmother were present. It goes to show how positive their relationship was outside of their ex/husband (my own father). See?

Take yourself out of the equation and allow those types of relationships to flourish organically.

[25yearsmlc]

I have some comments to make but lack the time atm.

I just feel you have totally overlooked the well made arguments (last thread did not really carry over, did it?)

about how you treat the mothers of your children and you wanting to separate them at birthdays to make You more comfortable.

OR b/c you believe that in the future, they won't care enough about the children not "belonging" to them, to show up. So for some reason, it seems you believe that NOW is the time to make that a reality. (Thus ensuring it happens, which is making your fears come true).

If I'm not mistaken, I, Wonka and Labug all advised you to reconsider and not put yourself into the equation at all, really.

Care to discuss that?

[lovethehub]

F,

I also want to chime in on this topic. When I was with my ex, he had 2 children from a previous R that lived with us. I raised these children for 5-6 years (from the time they were 2 and 4)and I was their mom, their 'real' mom was in the picture but just barely. When we split, I intended to keep in touch with them - after all, their sister lived with me. You can say half sister, but to me, there is no difference and this should not be noted. However, when I moved in with my H, he stopped all contact between us. He did it to hurt me, and he did, but he also hurt all 3 of his children and their sibling relationship. This is not about you at all, it is about the children, and if they have always had each other at their parties then that is how it should remain. Who cares if you all end up in different R's? The three of you will always be parents of siblings.

W: ....and then on the date we invite S10 and XW1 to come down and celebrate
Me: I am not into inviting XW1 but I am not the one to make the call about what goes on at your place
W: Why is that
Me: Because I do not see her as a close relative of Ds

S10 is their brother and she is his mother, that they have always had a relationship with. She is family to them.

W started arguing that Ds see XW1 as close family. I told her that while I do understand her POV I do not share it.
W: I know that and like this - so much else….but that’s how it is then…

It sounds like W is saying 'everything always has to be your way', there is no arguing with you or changing your mind when you make a decision and she has no say.

hen a looong break and then she kept arguing about XW1 being close. I changed the subject to finding an actual date. She was working and wanted to call back about this.
I continued shortly about how to get around this, but cut myself of and told W
You know what. Give it a thought and then come back to me. It is not fair of me not to give you the time I have taken myself

You are telling w, 'If you just take time to think about it like I have, you will see that I am right'.