Me 14 months on, affair confirmed, someone new?

[Wonka]

HWA,

When your W asked about the solicitor signing date, it touched a raw nerve in you as it came across to you as in "I am done and I am looking forward to living my own life." Am I about right?
The emotional reaction to this text is perfectly normal and natural.

You asked for thoughts on your text response:

My reply: I understand you wish to make plans for your future and will work with solicitor to achieve this for you. Remember this agreement is your choice. I am still going to stand for my marriage and my vows. I am sorry if that upsets you, but I will not give up on you, no matter what you do or have done. hotwheelsaust

Stating that you "will not give up on you....no matter what you do or have done" seems to invalidate your W's decision to leave the marriage and her feelings. It comes across as controlling.

A better approach would have been something like this:

"Things with the solicitor take time. I am sorry that you feel you need to do this. This is not what I want."

By making this statement, you are not disregarding with W's decision but making your thoughts clear to her that it is not what you want. See?

I want to circle back to your first attempt to reach out to W by asking her out for coffee. That did not pan out quite well...as you noticed. Can you think back on why that didn't work out? I want you to try to see this from W's point of view? What do you imagine W's reaction was when she read that first text from you?

[hotwheelsaust]

Wonka, thank you for the reply. I will try to answer the best as I can.
I suppose I should have put all the talk up, as it would have made more sense of the last text. One of the questions W asked is was I looking at giving her the unit. Where based on her agreement she wanted to walk away from both properties. That is why the "remember this is your agreement" quote.
In saying that I do like your change to the sentence.

With regards to the coffee request not working out? Well it is quite simple, unless she initiates, then nothing will happen, simple as that. She hasn't agreed to anything I have offered over the last 14 months. That is why her usual first reply back is why? what do we need to talk about? I suppose it is her way of getting ready for any discussion.

W is just taking the personal side out of everything and has since BD. I don't know what else I can do or try. Even the coach got to the point of not being able to offer much more (the coach was great by the way).

My comment on "not giving up, no matter what you do or have done" was mostly based on the affair that she doesn't want anyone to know about. It was in a way, letting her know that the guilt (mindreading) doesn't need to mean she can no longer come back.

So back to the first text I sent, what could I do differently? What am I doing wrong? Am I missing something about how W's reaction would be from that text?

[TryingToDo180]

Hi HWA,
Looking it from your W's prospective, you've not spoken to your W for months and then out of the blue you ask her out for a coffee. I think I would respond the same, I would want to know why as well. I would be very suspicious as well, even though it is just a coffee date.
I really don't know what I would've done, I suppose I wouldn't have sent the text in the first place.
This has confused me now, you say you're moving on and want to date other women, but you're continuing to stand for your M. Standing for your M, as you know, means staying faithful to your W and wearing your wedding ring. The way you responded to your W gives the impression that you've not moved on and are still holding the rope. Let the rope go now and see how much freer you feel If your W wants to R at a later date, then that is her choice and you may or may not still want her back.

[hotwheelsaust]

You are so right TTD180, I am confused as well. I felt I was ready to move on, date, take the wedding ring off etc. Still don't feel the need to put the ring on again.
Mostly it was about the way son was talking about the W, it just made me feel that she was going back ever so slightly to her old self. I just thought I needed to take the chance/risk of seeing/talking to her before going back to the country.
It was that one moment that I felt a chance to say what I felt still.
Maybe it was that last moment, before I let go of the rope. As when she goes home to the country today, we are now separated by 1000kms. Maybe now I can let go off the rope properly.

[Wonka]

HWA,

Let's dissect the mind of WAS step by step right here so you are able to understand better their perspective.

With regards to the coffee request not working out? Well it is quite simple, unless she initiates, then nothing will happen, simple as that. She hasn't agreed to anything I have offered over the last 14 months. That is why her usual first reply back is why? what do we need to talk about? I suppose it is her way of getting ready for any discussion.

In almost all of 14 months of separation, you and W have not talked by phone at all. The texts you've exchanged, if at all, were very sporadic and far in between over that time period. Follow me so far?

Then one day out of the blue, the WAS gets a text from a spouse requesting to get together for coffee. As you know that as a general unspoken rule, when a guy asks a woman [or man to man, woman to woman if they're gay] out for "coffee", it usually means they're interested in you romantically. Right?

This is how W perceived your text even though your intentions were friendly and perfectly 'innocent.' By sending that sort of text, you've "invaded" her personal space so W reacted accordingly as a separated spouse. She's shocked, confused, and very uncomfortable which is why she responded with "why", "what do you need to talk about." Your W was flummoxed by the sudden and very personal text that was just TOO FAST, TOO MUCH for her. In other words, you've crossed the 'invisible' line into her personal space.

If you would take my sitch for example, Ms. Wonka and I exchanged very light, humorous, fluffy texts for a long, long time before we had our first phone call. It took a while to chip at her defenses until we got to the point we were somewhat comfortable. With that wall out of the way, it just made sense to talk on the phone. HOWEVER, I emphasize this VERY seriously, I showed respect to Ms. Wonka by requesting permission to talk with her on the phone.

Do you see what I'm driving at here, HWA?

W is just taking the personal side out of everything and has since BD. I don't know what else I can do or try

This is very typical of WAS to put up the Berlin Wall between us as a self-protection mechanism. Please remember this...nothing to do with you, but their internal thought process in response to pain. So you're going to have to need to start from square one and treat her as a stranger that you've never met. How would you approach a new stranger that you'd like to be friends with? Think about this long and carefully. Exactly.

My comment on "not giving up, no matter what you do or have done" was mostly based on the affair that she doesn't want anyone to know about. It was in a way, letting her know that the guilt (mindreading) doesn't need to mean she can no longer come back.

Be very careful as this is a guilt-inducing comment to your W. Drop it. This type of comment serves no comment except to make them feel bad and push you further away. Who likes to be scolded? No one.

So back to the first text I sent, what could I do differently?

As a part of rebuilding a friendship with W, what needs to happen first is stop with pressure and expecting W to talk to you. You'll need to adjust your expectations to follow her pace accordingly and being respectful to W's pace. To this end, I would start with what you two have in common. One is your sons...anything else? For me and Ms. Wonka, we talked about NFL, our beloved dog and cat who have passed on, and other light, fluffy stuff that bring up positive memories.

Make sense?

[TryingToDo180]

I agree with Wonka You said about your W peeking out and seeming like her old self again according to your son. You forgot about the squirrel, lol.
It takes time to get to a proper friend stage. You'll need to get the paperwork out of the way first or if you don't want to do that then tell her and just not go ahead.
Once you've got the paperwork out of the way, then is the time to strike up a friendship. She will not see you then as anything other than a friend, does that make sense?
I'm not sure, but maybe send her another text saying that you're sorry for the last text you sent and you will no longer stand for your M if that's what she wants. You could also say that you would like to remain friends though for the sake of the boys and so there is no animosity between you when you do meet up.
Just my 2 cents worth

[hotwheelsaust]

Thank you Wonka, that made complete sense. So these are the points I will focus on:

* I get the coffee request was more like a start to a date rather than a get together.
* Friendly text first: similar to the "Happy New Year" one last week. But then was ruined by asking what to do for an engagement present.
* The Berlin Wall is not my fault, but her response to pain.
* Treat her like a stranger I have never met.....mmmmm. That will take a lot of thinking.
* What I texted was a guilt-inducing comment (it was like a last stand in a way) and to stop those texts.
* Talk about things in common: sons, teaching, .....it feels like a struggle after so long to even think about what we had in common.

Yes Wonka it all makes sense. Thanks again.

[Wonka]

TTD,

I disagree with the suggestion that HWA send W another text apologizing for the previous text. Just makes it look feeble and messy. Let it go.

What's important going forward are consistent actions.

[Wonka]

HWA,

You need to mirror W in your texts. I did with Ms. Wonka and her texts. When she wished me a HNY, I did likewise and left it at that. Haven't heard back from her since and that's okay with me. Next one will be Ms. Wonka wishing me HBD very soon.

[hotwheelsaust]

TTD180, your message come through while writing a reply to Wonka.

Yes as much as I don't want to do the paperwork, commonsense tells me it is important for both of us to have this done. I meet with solicitor next week for my part of this.
I don't know about the return text, I agree with Wonka on that one, it would look and sound very weird. Same goes with regards to staying friends for the boys, again she doesn't want to even talk about them. Remember no talking/texting about sons 21st or his engagement. Even when I texted with the Happy New Year message, her reply was ask son what he wants.


Wonka. You say mirror the wife in texts. So if I don't get any texts at all, my mirror is to not send any to her? If a text is sent with regards to the legal side of things, just send a legal reply back?
This is where I struggle, when she doesn't initiate anything. Is my only option to just wait it out?