on the edge...

[dingo]

[/b]The below was the status of my relationship approximately 6 weeks ago. I posted on a similar BB and while the advice I received was practical, the universal sentiment from the 'experts' was 'divorce immediately and don't look back.' This wasn't in my heart to follow that advice so I stopped posting. Our MC recommended Michelle's book and I found this site and decided to seek advice from you all as well as sign up for 3 sessions of coaching.

Here goes:

My wife and I are both 38 years old, have been living together for almost 7 years and married for the last two. Our relationship has gone through good times and bad and up until recently had seemed pretty normal to me. We have a lot of common interests and were always able to laugh, joke and be affectionate with each other. There were times when I was somewhat absent from the relationship (spent a couple of years addicted to a video game, focused on work, etc) and didn't always hear her requests for attention. Similar things happened in reverse as well, mostly centered around time she spent with her family and friends.

We've had a very stressful couple of years. Just after our wedding, I began a new job that I was very excited about and poured a lot of energy into. My wife and I are both engineering consultants and she understands the work hours and focus on clients' needs that our job requires - no matter what time of the day. However, I still think she resented how much i focused on work. Around the same time, my dad revealed that his cancer had returned. After 9 months of treatment, he passed away in July 2012. During this time, my wife's mother's illness became terminal and she passed away in May 2013. Lastly, there has been a lot of pressure to have a child. While I always thought we would have a family, I could not bring myself to pull the trigger and go through with it. After an argument back in March 2013, i began to understand how much it meant to her and slowly my stance changed.

My wife admitted to an affair with a co-worker approximately 2 weeks ago. She claimed that before our argument concerning having a child, she had never questioned whether she was in love with me. After that argument, she began to question love and whether we were right for each other. During this time, she began to befriend this co-worker. Innocently enough at first, she says but as she got to know him more, he began to elicit feelings in her that had eroded in our relationship (from what i read, pretty typical for affairs). During the last weeks of her mother's life, I felt like I was there for her. However, she recalls an instance where she asked if we could go away for the weekend and I said 'no, we're saving money for a vacation in the fall.' Admittedly, this is probably something I would have said but I do not recall the conversation. In her mind, she needed a break from everything with her mother and I had callously denied her that. This is apparently when the affair started (mid-May2013).

She began to be distant, spent a lot of time away from home, did most of her activities on her own and we stopped having sex (again, typical behavior/warning signs). Her claim was that she needed time and space to figure out what she wanted. Although I wasn't always successful, I did attempt to give her space. I moved into my mom's house for a couple of days and she stayed at her 'girlfriend's' house for a couple of days (i later found out that this was a lie). Eventually I caught her in a lie and she admitted to the affair. She then walked out of the house and stayed somewhere else for the night. The following evening, she moved back in and claimed she wanted things to work. We began seeing a counselor individually and as a couple. The following weekend, I caught her in another lie. She claimed that she was going to visit her father but was in fact out of town with the OM. When I called her on that, she came rushing home, claimed no more lies and that she just needed one last 'date.'

Today we are continuing to see the counselor and the sessions tend to go pretty well. We have good days and bad days. She tells me she loves me some days and other days she acts strangely when that topic comes up. She tells me of conversations with her father and his advice to her was 'your mother and I had a lot of problems in our marriage, if you love each other, you will work it out.' I ask her if we love each other, and she says yes. Some days, she will come home and ask about how we're splitting the property/finances if we get divorced or will tell me she's casually looking at apartments. Other days its 'god forbid we get a divorce.' Some days she's very affectionate, holding hands, hugging, etc. and other days she's distant and standoffish. Some days she can't get enough of me and others she doesnt want me around at all. Sex has not yet happened since the admission. I think you get the idea...

She has assured me that all contact with the OM since the last date has been strictly professional. I obviously have no way to verify this (there are just too many ways for people to secretly communicate these days) but as things are generally much more positive than they were at the height of the affair, I tend to believe her.

I think its important to note that we've never really had a problem getting along and other than the topic of our future, that trend continues. When we're in the car and the conversation is light, we still laugh and joke and are very interested in each others' lives. We are still able to do the activities that we enjoyed together (bike rides, hiking, backpacking, wildlife watching, etc.).

The bottom line is that I feel there is still a lot of love there and am really at a loss as to what I should be doing. I do feel like she gets overwhelmed with some of the affection and attention I have been giving her but because the lack of attention is what supposedly drove her away in the first place, I am not sure the 180 is the right move. Of course now, the situation is reversed in that I desperately want to start a family and she is on the fence. Lastly, because of the past, when she is not with me and comes home late from the gym, work, etc., i get extremely anxious and tense.

I obviously love this woman very much and somewhere inside her, I believe she still loves me very much. I am not interested in this point at saving my pride, being right or proving points. I want to save our marriage. I wanted to get some advice on my general situation from some of the experts here as well as tips on some of my questions in the previous paragraph. Thanks for taking the time to read this post. Any comments/ideas at all are greatly appreciated.

[b]
Over the past 6 weeks or so, my wife and I have been all over the map. She's committed to the marriage one day, and wanting a divorce the next. Admittedly, I have done a horrible horrible job with the chances she has given me. Making demands, snooping, forcing her to talk about the R, basically anything and everything wrong. Last Sunday she said she wants a divorce, sees no hope for us and is done trying. This came about because I snooped and found a message from the OM on her cell phone inviting her out. I confronted her and pretty much made an ass of myself - im sure you all can imagine. She continues with the stance of no more trying and this is the longest she has gone without coming back into the marriage.

We are still living together and still get along fabulously except when we talk about the relationship or I try to push for committment, affection, etc. She has done things that let me know its not completely over yet - our anniversary is in 3 weeks and she has asked me not to cancel our plans, she talks about improvements to the house, still cuddles me when we watch movies or are in bed and gives me a kiss good bye when we leave for work and a kiss good night, still calls me by her pet name for me, etc. However, I still make the classic mistake of reaching for too much when things start to improve.

Earlier in the process, at the advice of my family and posters on the other BB, I retained a lawyer and had her draw up a draft agreement. At our MC session the other day, she asked to have that agreement sent to us for review and possibly signature, to which I agreed (though its not what I want).

I have read a lot of the advice and strategies on here and my initial goals/plan is this:

1. Do not bring up any conversation about our relationship or the OM(they are really the only thing we argue about). If she initiates, keep the conversation short and do not react to ANYTHING (positive or negative) that she says.
2. Over the next two weeks, I would like her to begin wearing her engagement ring again (she took it off on Sunday) and
3. Be patient and accept the little positives and ignore the big (or at least they appear to be big) negatives.
4. I have laid down a boundary that there should be no out of work contact with the OM.

I think thats a nice slow start and welcome any comments you all have.

Lastly, while I have done some of the groundwork on getting divorced, it is not something i agree with or want. Is it ok to tell her that if she wants a divorce, she should be the one to initiate? Even if I have already agreed to have the papers sent to us?

With respect to our anniversary trip, she initially asked me to cancel it but after a talk on Monday night where I described to her some of the ways I felt that I failed her in the marriage and pledged to work on them, she asked that I not cancel it yet. Given the current state of things, is it a good idea to proceed with that trip?

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Francis Bacon

[labug]

What do you think your major issue is in the marriage?

What would you like from your W?

Can you forgive her?

[Breakdown]

Dingo, I'm sorry you find yourself here, but it sounds like it's a better fit for you than the last site.

Have you read DR yet? That's generally the starting point for everyone.

I was reading "Surviving an Affair" this morning, and it really hit home for me. After reading your sitch, I see a lot of similarities as well. Your W's response to you snooping and finding the invite? Typical. It's discussed in the book, and my own W did it quite a few times. It's a way to project guilt on you (which looks like it worked) so that you stop questioning her and she can continue doing what she wants. I'd guess there's a 95% chance her A is continuing.

So here's the tough part. Affairs typically die a natural death, but it generally takes a change in the situation for that to happen. As long as she's got both of you, things are probably not going to get better. I'm not saying do anything about it yet, but think about it.

In the meantime, get to reading, start thinking about things you want to change about yourself, things that you don't like, things that your W has complained about. Think about how you want to improve yourself as a person. That's a lot of work, and it will drain you....so balance this by GAL. Get out, meet people, do things you've always wanted to, exercise, etc.

With regards to your setting a boundary of her not seeing OM outside of professionally, how are you going to enforce that boundary? Has your W agreed to it? Generally, boundaries are for you....to protect you. They aren't meant to control other people.

Keep posting and keep reading.

[AnotherStander]

Very sorry to hear of the loss of your father and mother, that's a lot of heartache to deal with in the span of less than a year, plus BD!! My heart goes out to you!

First, read Sandi2's 37 Rules and really learn them and stick to them. You're breaking a lot of those rules right now and it's hurting your chances of a future reconciliation.

Second, the things your W is doing right now regarding reaching out to you and then pushing you away is totally normal behavior for a WAS. You have got to quit reacting to it. When she goes up and down you stick to the baseline. She's on a roller coaster, but you can choose to stay off of it.

Third, read DR, work on the one thing you can control- YOU. Make yourself into the spouse only a fool would leave. Give her LOTS of time and space.

Fourth, I would discontinue seeing the MC together. It never helps with a WAS, and often it just makes things worse. MC is great if she expresses interest in trying to work on things, but that will be way down the road.

Fifth, be patient! This is a marathon, not a sprint. It takes many months and often years to get to the point of reconciling.

Sixth, don't focus on your W's affair. OM is a symptom of your marital problems, not the cause of it. Don't snoop, don't try to contact him, don't ask your W about him, just leave it alone. You already know she's in an A, there's nothing more to be learned from it.

We began seeing a counselor individually and as a couple.

Don't go as a couple anymore, but it's OK to go individually.

The bottom line is that I feel there is still a lot of love there and am really at a loss as to what I should be doing. I do feel like she gets overwhelmed with some of the affection and attention I have been giving her but because the lack of attention is what supposedly drove her away in the first place, I am not sure the 180 is the right move.

After BD I too laid a lot of affection and attention on my W. I "fixed" every personal issue she said I had. We seemed to be getting along better than ever, and it seemed like she was really trying to make the M work. But every time our M came up in MC she always said the exact same thing- "I just don't want to try". Despite appearances, she was totally done. She was still planning her exit strategy. And she did leave. I've read similar sitches many times on these forums. Do not underestimate how "done" your W is. Stick to DB'ing. Quit pursuing her. Give her time and space.

Of course now, the situation is reversed in that I desperately want to start a family and she is on the fence.

Drop it and don't bring it up again. That's pressure, and pressure is the LAST thing she wants right now. Likewise do not ever initiate a discussion of the M or R with her.

DB'ing is all about working on yourself. Read the first few chapters and try to come up with a list of things you've done wrong in the M and figure out how to do 180's on those things. Good luck!

[dingo]

Thanks for the responses everyone. To answer some of your questions:

I think the major issue in our marriage is that I entered my relationship with my wife while i was still in love with an ex gf who continued to contact me and lightly pursue me (even though we lived thousands of miles apart). It took me a long time to get through the confusion of that situation because I loved my wife as well but could not seem to shake the ex. By the time I did come around, my wife probably felt like I took her for granted. I never thought about it or realized that the contact with my ex, even if it was only friendly small talk was keeping me from being in my relationship 100%. In a lot of ways, its not all that different from the current situation, only with some role reversal.

I guess I am not sure what I want from her other than to just have her as a partner through the rest of our lives.

I don't know if I can forgive her but its something I think about and would like the chance to see if its possible.

My game plan for the next few weeks is to just keep things light, fun and away from relationship talk. I will spend time with her when she asks and give her time and space when she asks. I will not bring up the affair, future plans or anything else that could trigger a negative reaction.

Ive been on the roller coaster for the last 3 months or so and am going to try to stay even keeled. I am going to try not to be surprised by anything she says. When she does talk, I will just listen without judging or trying to help.

I am also going to give her space when she doesnt necessarily ask for it by starting to do my own thing again. I have plans this weekend to do some things by myself.

[NLW]

Dingo,
I can sympathise with what you're going through.

I've been there. And I'm 2 years down the track. That's the sad truth about how long this can take.

And re AS's observation:
"After BD I too laid a lot of affection and attention on my W. I "fixed" every personal issue she said I had. We seemed to be getting along better than ever, and it seemed like she was really trying to make the M work. But every time our M came up in MC she always said the exact same thing- "I just don't want to try". Despite appearances, she was totally done. She was still planning her exit strategy. And she did leave. I've read similar sitches many times on these forums. Do not underestimate how "done" your W is. Stick to DB'ing. Quit pursuing her. Give her time and space."

My experience was the EXACT same. Please do not underestimate how done she is.

This is so sad and hard to hear, i know, but it will help you cope with the amount of time that is going to be involved in this process.

Please do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself, first and foremost.

[Cadet]

Although the advice here is to NOT file for divorce it is to
LET GO.

In fact most of us are divorced when the bomb drops, we just dont know it yet.

The thing it we are going to have to create a new marriage the old one is dead.

I usually can some up what you need to do with one word.

DETACH.

Start treating her "as if" you are divorced.
Whats that going to look like?

I see that you have posted again and are waiting for that post to show up.

Please keep posting on this thread.

[dingo]

So here is the latest. My wife and I had a great week. We went out to dinner on Wednesday night and had a great time. Kept the talk light and kept the physical pressure (holding hands, etc.) to a bare minimum.

Then on Thursday she went to yoga after work and I went and met a friend for coffee. This friend happens to be female (more on that later) but we are strictly friends. I got home later than she did and she was sitting on the couch watching TV. I gave her a kiss goodnight, went upstairs to read for a bit and then went to sleep.

Friday night I had an office party to go to and she was supposed to make an appearance and then go to a friend's for a jewelry party. At the last minute she decided to skip her friend's party and stayed with me at our office party all night. We actually had an amazing time. The party was at Dave and Busters and we played some of the arcade games and laughed and I felt like we really connected again in a way that we haven't in a long time. On the way home she commented that she was so happy that she made me laugh a bunch of times and that I really do think she's funny (its kind of an inside joke with us that I don't think she's funny).

Throughout the week she was pretty affectionate physically - cuddling at night, hugging and kissing, etc. Nothing more substantial than that though.

While we were at out office party, a co-worker that also likes to hike asked us if we were going hiking over the weekend. My wife and I had agreed to do our own thing on Saturday. She made plans to go to a concert with some friends and I had made plans to hike with some friends, including the friend I had met for coffee earlier in the week. When I mentioned to my co-worker that I had made plans to hike, my wife asked a ton of questions (hiking is one activity that she and I have always done together) about where I was going and who I was going with. Apparently I didnt answer these to her satisfaction so she snooped my phone later that night and found text messages from the friend.

To make a long story short, Saturday passed and we had little contact. She asked me to send her some pictures from my hike and then texted me back a few times. She was originally supposed to come home that night but texted me later in the night to say she was staying at a friend's house but would be home for church in the morning. When she didnt show up for church in the morning, I started to suspect that all was not as it seemed. Nevertheless, I went to church on my own and tried to put it out of my mind.

On the way home from church, a friend of mine who had also been at the concert called and told me that he saw my wife with another guy (who of course is the OM). My assumption was that they planned to go to the show together or met there and she ended up at his place that night.

When she got home, she seemed happy to see me, gave me a kiss and a hug and asked if I wanted to go to a local sports bar to watch some football. I asked her what happened with church and she really didnt have a good answer/acted guilty and initiated a talk about our relationship. I told her that we can't have a good talk about our situation while she lies to me and that she can't keep doing what she's doing without hurting me. She mentioned that she knew I went hiking with another woman because she had read my texts. When I explained to her that it was just a friend and others had gone along, she got pretty quiet and said that we definitely won't be able to recover from this. I just said that we can if we stop lying and start being good to each other.

So we went out to the bar, watched some football and had a pretty good time. I tried to keep things light again even when she made some jabs at me. Eventually we made it home and started talking about things again. Earlier in the week I had asked her to make me a list of the things that she thought needed to change for her to come back into the relationship. At the same time I made a list of the things that I thought I needed to work on but did not tell her that I would be doing that. As we were talking about things, I brought out my list and showed it to her. She then showed me her list and most of the things on there were the same. She seemed appreciative that I had thought of most of the same things on my own.

I then mentioned that in order for me to show her that I can change some of those things, she had to give me time to show her. I also said that when she asks for space and then goes and spends the night with the OM, its pretty discouraging, particularly after we've had a good week. She then admitted that the week was good and that if we could continue to have those, she might be willing to give things a chance. I said that I was willing to not talk about our relationship, not talk about the affair and try to have all our interactions be positive ones but that the affair was making it difficult for me. She said that she knows she has to end the affair to give us a chance but she's having a hard time doing it. However, she knows the current situation can't continue and doesnt want to have any regrets. She specifically mentioned our friendship, familiarity and all of our inside jokes, looks, etc as something she never wanted to lose.

Ended the conversation by agreeing to give her time and resolved to try to keep things positive between us.

[sandi2]

Welcome aboard. Hope you'll post often, and it will help with more responses.

I do feel like she gets overwhelmed with some of the affection and attention I have been giving her but because the lack of attention is what supposedly drove her away in the first place, I am not sure the 180 is the right move.

LBH newcomers are perplexed when they are advised not to smother the WAW with attention and affection b/c of it being a reason she gave him. However, all that attention & affection she wanted from you in the past....doesn't apply in today's stitch. A big mistake a LBH makes is trying to do all the things he should have done before the breakdown in the R. You will find that it doesn't seem to work now.

She has been involved with another man. Being a co-worker is tough. How often does she have to see him at work?

It is very difficult for a woman to pull away from an A when her emotional needs were being met by OM. It is more addicting than your video games were! She will have to go through grieving the A and withdrawing from the addiction. If she sees this OM every day at work, it will be extremely difficult.....especially if he is pursuing her.

She really needs some type of accountability to help her get through it. Has any sort of plan been set up to help both of you shield the M from another A? Is she seeing the MC separately? Is the MC a solution based therapist? Were you seeing the MC before you knew about the A?

Lastly, while I have done some of the groundwork on getting divorced, it is not something i agree with or want. Is it ok to tell her that if she wants a divorce, she should be the one to initiate? Even if I have already agreed to have the papers sent to us?

Just don't bring the subject up. If she wants the D, she'll press you about it.

Her emotions are a battlefield right now. She doesn't know what she wants b/c her feelings are so confused. But don't argue or tell her what she is or not feeling....b/c they are her feelings. You never argue with a woman about her feelings, ok?

She has changed. She is not the girl you married. You will not understand her and will look for the woman you use to know.

Your MR is dead. You can start a new R one, but it takes time to mend and adjust.....but your M can be saved.

It will get worse before it gets better. Always be prepared for the unexpected.


P.S. Do not try to have a baby right now. That would be a very bad mistake!