It's been a few months since I've posted but long story short, last year my W had an affair with a client of hers. It ended after about 6 months which eventually led to her coming home. I accepted that blindly, being happy that she wanted to come home, and we never went to MC or dealt with any of our issues that had come to the surface through her affair. By March of this year things had turned rocky again when contact with OM resurfaced and since we've had this weird in-house separation thing going where she's sleeping in a guest room. Contact with OM stopped about two months ago after I confronted him which she was furious about but I had to do something.
At that point she basically sat me down and told me that she didn't want to be married anymore and wanted a divorce. It's not the first time she said it but its usually when she gets to the point where she had enough. Each time she basically wants me to give in and say, "Okay, let's end this" but I haven't and won't. I've told her that. It's not that I want to fight with her through any proceedings but I'm just not at the place where I want to end our marriage. This most recent time I told her that if it is really something she wants then she shouldn't wait for me to do something about it. Learn about the process, talk to a lawyer, etc. I almost get the sense that when she does say it it's to scare me and back off because when I told her to go ahead and talk to a lawyer, that's actually when things turned around for us.
Since then up until about two weeks ago, we've been getting along, she would initiate contact and making plans, rather then spending all her time downstairs I'd come home and she'd be waiting to talk to me about her day and so on. She is still sleeping downstairs but up until about a week ago I was hoping that would start to change.
Through all of this, she got a new job and made some new friends with her coworkers. That was great because I felt like her old job started a lot of our issues because of her hours and that was where she met OM. Along with that, one of her coworkers now is a bartender and she began going out when this girl was working. At first it was once here and there which was fine with me. I didn't know the girl and would have other things going on so I didn't have a problem not going. Then it started to become a more regular occurrence to where it is now a weekly, if not multiple times a week thing. It's also not just the girl she knows from work anymore, it's all the regulars from the bar she goes to hang out with, guys included.
I'm fine with her having her own friends, I really am. The problems for me come in here:
I don't know these people for the most part - I met two of them once for a half hour - so I really have nothing to go on as to who they are. She's made it clear that she wants to have separate friends which just seems odd to me. I don't need to be friends with these people, I just want to meet them.
These people are all like five years younger than her and at different points in their lives: just out of college, no full-time job yet, still living at home with parents, renting summer houses and going out to bars on the weekend to relax. It's just not the same place as we or our normal friends are: married, owning a house, some of our friends have kids or are about to have their second kid. I keep thinking she's going through some quarter-life crisis or something.
She stopped wearing her wedding rings probably about two or three months ago except for when our parents are around and this week changed her Facebook around to hide the fact that she's married (yes, it's stupid) - I'm left asking, "What's that about?" She resent the fact that I ask about it. It's almost like she's hiding the fact that she's married to anyone that doesn't know. She tells me that they all know she's married but knowing how open she is about her life with her actual friends, I doubt she walks around broadcasting it.
I don't like have to compete for time with her. It's one thing if she goes out every other week or something but when now that it seems like it's weekly, I can't get her to commit to do anything.
She's going on a trip to Las Vegas with a few of them in November. When she first brought it up to me it was just a "girls trip" so I was fine with it - especially since I just went Vegas with a few of my friends. But now it's changed into celebrating one of the girl's birthdays so her boyfriend is going and his friends. I'm obviously not invited which is fine and would be weird if I was but I'm left guessing about the whole thing and she takes offense to me questioning her.
The obviously underlying trust issue I have given her affair last year.
I know a lot of this is all over the place. I've had people tell me, "Why do you put up with this?" The only answers that I come up with are that we've been together for too long and I've put too much into our relationship just to walk away. If I was going to give up, I would have last summer when she moved out during the affair. The other thing I say is that this isn't her normal behavior. Since all this happened between us, she has taken every opportunity to skirt responsibility if she can. I do believe that there is nothing going on with anyone else (at least right now), I just don't like being marginalized. I also know that things have been a lot worse and there are people with bigger problems here on this forum. I just hate feeling like I have no control and it's almost like things are back to square one at times. I wish I could turn back the clock like two years.
M: 29 W: 29 T: 12 years M: 4 years Discovered OM: 02/10/12 ILYBNILWY: 03/01/12 W Moves Out: 05/04/12 Reconciliation Starts: 09/06/12 In-house Separation (Again): 03/09/13
There's a lot about your wife in your post and changes she made during the time she came back. What about you, what did you do in that time period? In your time here before did you practice any DB techniques, if so, which ones do you feel worked for the benefit of yourself and the marriage?
Did your wife ever say why she left in the first time, what made her come back and what is making her not want to be married again now?
Do you have any changes you'd like to make to be better yourself/for yourself?
me: 30 H:30 tgthr:7 m:4 no kids 5 counseling sessions initiated by H as a LR: Oct 2012 long distance marriage b/c of work since Nov 2012 official BD: July 2013 nothing filed 1/1/14 I dropped the rope
Just to give you a little insight, last year when my wife was having her affair, there was a good 2-3 months where we tried sharing the house. It was torture for me knowing that she wanted to be with someone else. After a few pretty bad fights and when I threw a bunch of hard evidence in her face, we were talking about the next steps and what we were going to do. We laid out a few options, divorce being one of them and then I suggested a trial separation instead. She took to the idea and decided to get her own apartment closer to work and I stayed in the house. Throughout the time she was out, she tried keeping the fact that we were separated a secret - we didn't talk about it with our friends or family and it was a big facade for a while. One thing that she did say early on in the affair was that she wasn't happy. That didn't mean doing what she was doing was going to make her happy but by staying she saw that as more of the same. When she came back she said it was because she wanted to and wanted to make our marriage work but I think part of it was because she saw what it was like to be on her own and wanted things to get back to some sort of normalcy.
Now, I think she simply doesn't want to have to be responsible or answerable to someone else which isn't too far from last year. She's hanging out with a younger group of people that don't have the responsibilities that she would under normal circumstances. She wants to be able to go where she wants and hang out with who she wants. What's interesting is that we never had an issue previously about that - we both had our friends and would have no problem spending time separately with them. What is different is the lack of concern for my opinion and something I continually struggle with.
What did I change previously? I worked on getting a life when she was out of the house. I had my softball seasons, participated in 5k runs, spent time with my friends and made it a point to do things regardless of what she was doing. That's not to say I don't do that stuff now but I made more of an effort. By the time I was going to have to find new things to do with the change in weather, she moved back in.
What worked? Not pursuing her constantly. Because of the affair I was 24-7 consumed with where she was and who she was talking to. I had figured out how to read her text message and and was simply just consumed with it - despite how much of a torture it was. Once I stopped doing that stuff, even before she moved out, I started to feel a lot better and she could obviously notice that I wasn't on her all the time about what she was doing. I feel like still do decent job with that and giving her space but I know with all these new people she's hanging out with, I'm constantly putting her on the defensive.
Changes I'd like to make? I'd like to be more confident and I'd like to be able to say, "No" and not feel bad about it. I'd like to find a way that we can both be happy.
M: 29 W: 29 T: 12 years M: 4 years Discovered OM: 02/10/12 ILYBNILWY: 03/01/12 W Moves Out: 05/04/12 Reconciliation Starts: 09/06/12 In-house Separation (Again): 03/09/13
Hi Hurt. What you describe is like a MLC but as you said she's too young. This brought back stuff for me that I'd somehow managed to block from my mind. My H started going out with friends that were younger than him. I never met them either and it annoyed me not knowing who they were. He said that some of them had wives as well. One Sunday, he stayed out all night! It was one of his friends birthdays and they ended up in a night club. My H got drunk even though he was supposed to be driving. He ended up sleeping in his car all night. I was worried sick as you can imagine! Anyway in the morning I rang him and the phone was switched off. I waited a few hours then I rang the police. I was just going to be connected when H rang. I am furious just thinking about it and being reminded about it! You've been together for quite a few years and if my calculation is correct, then that means you started going out when you were 17. Do you think she settled down too soon and is living her younger life now? What about you? did you settle down too soon as well or were you both still acting like 17 year olds? Just a thought Have you read DB and DR? In DB it talks about uncommon sense which I found great and would love to apply it to my sitch. When she goes out, tell her to have a lovely time and comment on how nice she looks. Tell her you won't be waiting up for her and you'll see her in the morning. In the morning I would have a cooked breakfast, she'll either want some as well or throw up if she's hungover. Either way it's in your favour. Act as if you're not bothered what she does, but show her you still care. Does that make sense? When she's in a semi conscious state (I'm assuming she gets drunk!) then ask her if she enjoyed herself and if she feels better. Give her lots of space as well. Go out if you need to and go for a long walk or meet up with friends, etc. I wouldn't question her about her friends anymore, just let her go out with them and be happy for her. The last thing she wants is that you don't trust her. My H left me 12 years ago for an OW. When he came back home 8 months later, I found it hard to trust him again and it put a strain on our marriage. We didn't talk about it or go to MC, he didn't want to talk about it but I did. If you don't trust her, try not to show it. Just be happy for her and get on with your GALing that you had started before. I'm only saying these things because she is still living with you and there's still a chance that you could change things around. Start doing 180s, be pleasant towards her, listen to what she has to say and don't interrupt. If she says anything that she finds irritating about you, just acknowledge it. Reread Sandi's rules and follow them. I hope I've helped. If you're already doing this stuff then great Keep up with the good work
H47 me48 T22 M21 S20 - Got high functioning autism 3/2000 H admits to OW and moves out to live with her 11/2000 H moves back home 2/4/13 H moves out H tells me he wants D 6/13, but now he can't afford to!
You're post is really helpful bc it honestly reminded me of a bunch of techniques that I need to get back to using from DB and DR. Specifically, acting as if what she does isn't affecting me. I hate the idea of just taking what she dishes because it obviously goes against everything I want to do but I know from experience it works and if anything it makes for pleasant interactions. And if I'm able to build off those interactions then we can start piecing things.
I 100% believe that part of this is her trying to get back some of those younger years that we spent together rather then seeing what else is out there. For me that was never an issue bc I was always happy where we were.
When she came home last fall we didn't talk about her affair either beyond the fact that it was over. She was uncomfortable talking about what she did wrong and I honestly didn't want to rehash everything that happened.
My ultimate hope is that this is just a phase and that just as quickly as things turned south that they can hopefully turn around just as quick. I also realize that is a little bit of a pipe dream given what's happened in the last 18 months so I try to go with no expectations, knowing having those only sets mess up for heartache.
M: 29 W: 29 T: 12 years M: 4 years Discovered OM: 02/10/12 ILYBNILWY: 03/01/12 W Moves Out: 05/04/12 Reconciliation Starts: 09/06/12 In-house Separation (Again): 03/09/13
Hi Hurt, glad I was able to give you some advice I hope it goes well for you One thing I'd say that if she does want a R, then you need to take it slowly this time. That's what I intend to do if I ever get a chance at R I feel that both of us need to address the affairs and talk to an MC about our sitches. It's the only way I feel that we can really trust our spouses again. You mentioned about turning it round quickly, but you need to take things slowly. You'll have to have a lot of patience and lots of little babysteps in order for this to work. Reread Sandi's rules, sorry I'm repeating myself now but I feel it's important to do that go out and GAL. Find a hobby that you can engage in or some other activity that doesn't involve your spouse. This will make you feel better You can have a little bit of hope, I always keep hold of a bit of hope In the long run you may get hurt again but you'll come out of this a lot stronger if you follow the system on here. Keep posting regularly, we're here to help and encourage you You will get some tough talk on here as well, but take what you want and ditch the rest Good luck
H47 me48 T22 M21 S20 - Got high functioning autism 3/2000 H admits to OW and moves out to live with her 11/2000 H moves back home 2/4/13 H moves out H tells me he wants D 6/13, but now he can't afford to!
She's putting you in a situation where you cannot feel confident and self assured because you really don't know what she's going to do or what she's up to. She is emotionally separated from you judging by her behavior and seems to be investing nothing in your marriage. Since you don't have kids, another physical separation may be in order.
You can't entice her back by being nice, and it will be hard to give her the space she needs with how you're feeling and being treated. You're In a prolonged one down position and that will fail to draw her attention to you.
I recommend living separately and creating some boundaries to protect yourself. I would set a high bar of what you need to see from her before considering reconciliation. She's checked out -- the shortest path back together is to check out also
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Hey Hurt. I'm sorry you find yourself here, but keep posting.
This is a tough situation, and to me, a few things sound pretty straightforward:
1) You sound like you want the M to work and are willing to do just about anything to make that happen.
2) Your W is cake eating big time. If you think she's not checking out the other fish in the pond, you are wrong buddy.
3) The underlying issues of the first affair were never addressed (both sides).
How long ago did you read DB/DR? It might be time for another read. I'd also consider "Love Must be Tough" and "Five Love Languages." You might also consider "The Married Man's Sex Primer."
What are the issues as far as you know? What have you been working on? What do you argue about? What about your role in the M do you not like? What did your W like about you when you first met? What happened to that guy?
These are important questions, and the answers even more so. So far, I'd guess your W hasn't seen the changes she's looking for, so she's still shopping around to see if the grass is greener someplace else. You have to start by working on you, and that includes GAL.
If you look back at #1 above, that's a good quality...one lacking in most people these days. However, the bad thing about it is that it makes you look weak, and that makes you unattractive. You have to be strong and stand up for what you believe in.....being the whipping boy will not win her back.
This last bit, I don't say lightly. I was much the same, and fought to keep it together for years. It was only after I finally stood my ground and said "no, I won't accept that in my marriage" that things actually changed.
Thanks everyone, the responses are encouraging and despite me consistently doing the same things that don't help the situation I do appreciate the insight.
I can't necessarily say the same for the results of this weekend as it started off with her going out Friday night instead of dinner plans we had. Our plans were never really set but with her recent uptick in doing anything to go out with these people, it leads me to believe she's doing just as Breakdown had said and is seeing what else is out there. After that, Saturday afternoon I sat her down and was straight-forward about my feelings.
I know that isn't attractive to her at all but at the same time I had to say something. I told her that I think the amount that she is going out is excessive and I'm starting to not only get concerned for our relationship but her as well, at that point she had been operating on about 5 hours sleep for 2 days. She can't keep burning the candle at both ends. I told her I can't compete for time with these new friends of hers - it's obvious at this point she will do just about anything to go out with them so something needs to change. When she brought up divorce and moving in with her mother, because that's the inevitable bomb when I address anything that bothers me these days, I told her at this point I don't think it would be a bad idea if she stayed with her mom for the time-being. The current situation isn't doing anything for us but making me frustrated and hurt again and putting her on the defensive all the time. I don't want to be fighting this battle daily. At this point she refuses to make a change in the living situation as long as we are married and is "paying to live there". The conversation escalated from there to the point where we basically didn't talk for the rest of the day - we had a party that night and we might as well have gone separately - but there was some thawing of the ice by the end of the night.
One of the things she asked me before we left for the party was why do I want to be around her? She either is dramatizing my opinion of her or interpreting everything I'm saying to be that I think she's this horrible person - her words. The response I gave her in the moment was that there were a million ways I could answer that but they all point to her being the person I want to be with. Afterwards, I thought about it and wrote them out and left it for her in the morning while I went to softball. I'm starting to think she believes I'm just being stubborn and isn't moving on for whatever reason, at least with this she could tangibly see why I'm still here putting up a fight even if it shows me as being weak.
Sunday was supposed to be a day for us to hang out just us, with her not planning on going out or anything. The plan in the afternoon was for us to go out shopping (she wanted me to pick out my birthday gift from a couple weeks back) and then we were going to dinner which had been pushed off from Friday. When I got home from softball she was still a little stand-offish from Saturday but our friend had just had their baby so she was excited about it. Right away she told me she planned on going out later that afternoon but she wanted to go visit the baby and we could still go shopping together unless that was a problem. At that point I wasn't going to change her mind and I just said that she knew how I felt about it already but she was going to do what she wanted. She just said she needed space but still wanted to spend part of the day together. After we were done and went and did some stuff around town and stuff around the house. When she came home she did apologize for pushing off dinner again but after Saturday she needed to get away for a little.
That was obviously a long-winded story but I think it shows a few things: A) She's definitely checked out to a certain extent, I agree. B) I think she's struggling with what she thinks my motivation is. C) If I don't change something, things aren't going to get any better. I know things take time but I need to really start thinking about what I need to do here.
To answer Breakdown's questions:
-- I read DB about a year ago with re-reading some select chapters back in March. DR I read in March. -- From what I understand, the issue is that she's unhappy with where she is in life. I get the impression she feels like she missed something in her younger years and is trying to have those experiences now. She has said that she wants separate friends and for me to not have to know every little detail about everything. -- Up until now, the only thing I've been working on has been keeping it together. When things were going well for the month or so I was kind of just going with the flow and we were getting along really well. As her going out has increased I've gotten more uncomfortable with it and I've started pursuing her big time. I need to do better with that and do more. -- We basically argue about her going out and the underlying issue of her basically walking away from our relationship. She doesn't say too much about what she wants from me, but more what she personally wants - the majority of which do not involve me. When I discovered her affair last year she said that I was too complacent and that she was tired of doing the same thing all the time. I tried to make changes to accommodate for that at the time but it was "too little too late" according to her. -- I don't like that I come second to her desire to go out all the time. I feel if I was invited here and there it would solve a lot of that specific problem. At this point, I feel like she's hiding the fact that she's married to some of these people. I want to be more of a priority. -- We've known each other since we were in grade school and started dating right before college. I think we clicked because we had common interests and had similar friends. We used to go out here and there when we were younger but for a while there it seemed like we were growing out of that with our friends as we all got married. We started talking about having kids early last year and I think the seriousness of that freaked her out. I've stayed pretty consistent with my priorities, so if anything I think part of the problem is that I haven't changed my priorities with hers maybe.
One of the things that Breakdown deduced is 100% accurate and that is I would do just about anything to make the marriage work. I just haven't been able to find the right thing yet I suppose.
M: 29 W: 29 T: 12 years M: 4 years Discovered OM: 02/10/12 ILYBNILWY: 03/01/12 W Moves Out: 05/04/12 Reconciliation Starts: 09/06/12 In-house Separation (Again): 03/09/13
I tried to make changes to accommodate for that at the time but it was "too little too late" according to her. This is what my H said as well when I tried to change. I didn't know what our issues were as he never told me, but I worked on the issues that I thought they were. I think you're right when you said you should be working on not pursuing her. Just let her go and do her own thing and tell her to have a nice time. If she arranges to do anything with you, then have a back up plan in case she changes her mind again. I know it's frustrating at the mo Don't arrange anything with her, let her make all the arrangements. What's that saying again? Believe half of what she says and none of what she does or something like that. I would also reread Sandi's rules and try to apply them to your sitch. Hope things get better for you
H47 me48 T22 M21 S20 - Got high functioning autism 3/2000 H admits to OW and moves out to live with her 11/2000 H moves back home 2/4/13 H moves out H tells me he wants D 6/13, but now he can't afford to!
Don't arrange anything with her, let her make all the arrangements. What's that saying again? Believe half of what she says and none of what she does or something like that.