Well, I have a lot new to report if y'all are interested. It isn't too pretty. After the MC sessions, months of "progress", etc. the frequency was pretty close to the same old same old. Meaning once a month or twice if I was "lucky". Many other things seemed to be back to normal in our R, meaning not so good, despite my extra efforts to prevent. I've been taking care of the kids much more, enabling her to have several nights of freedom for scrapbooking, bunko, etc. I've cleaned the house without any help from her every week for at least the last 6 or so. I've been patient.
Well, last week my patience ran out and I let her know via email how dissappointed I was becoming about how we were slipping back to old routines and particularly the no sex part. After a number of heated exchanges she said she would try harder and was sorry things had slipped.
Here comes the bad and disturbing part. We had a number of evening commitments so she never really had a chance to "try harder". Then, I can't pinpoint the exact time it happened, I went through a major change. I'm still struggling to understand it. Kind of like what Achingman described, I guess it was a wave of total despair of "knowing" and "understanding" the SSM issues but feeling completely powerless to make things better. Here is the really strange part. All of my sexual desire for my W dissappeared! It is horrible! Its just gone! I look at my W now and have no urge. I don't even want to hold her hand. I don't want her to get close to me in bed.
She actually tried to initiate sex with me and I had no interest at all. She rubbed and touched on me and there was zero physical reaction in me. Not like I was fighting the feeling, I just felt nothing. I kept thinking to myself, "it is just too late". Not too late at night but too late in the R. Like, I'd already given up on wanting to have a sex life with you.
I wonder if she experienced the hurt of rejection that I've felt so many times?! I really hope not. Now I wouldn't be surprised if she won't want to initiate again. But I'm much more worried about my own feelings - or lack of them. In the nine years we've been married I have never not been in the mood. Not once ever. Does this mean I don't love her any more? Is this the beginning of the end?
My head is so F'd up right now. I need to know if this is all my imagination, if this lack of feeling will go away and I'll be back to myself again. Its been 4 days since the night she tried to initiate and my feelings haven't changed. I know its nothing physical because I still feel the same physically when I see other atractive women. Its not like my libido is gone.
Now she's pressing ME for answers for MY lack of desire and I am clueless. I have no idea what to tell her. I have no idea what to tell myself.
FredD
The most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.
Quote: Now she's pressing ME for answers for MY lack of desire and I am clueless. I have no idea what to tell her. I have no idea what to tell myself.
tell her exactly what you feel...that you don't know why..that you have some possible ideas why...but that you don't understand it...also express that it's confusing you..and scaring you...then perhaps the two of you can work together on the issue.
That's scary. I've worried about that eventually happening to me, but I'm not to that point yet. On the rare occasion that my wife has shown some interest in me, I haven't been able to enjoy it as much as I'd like because I'm worried about how long it will be before she's interested again. It sometimes makes me feel worse because I'm reminded of how much I miss being intimate with her. After a while I'm afraid that everything I've been working towards will begin to seem pointless. And if that should happen, maybe I won't desire her any more. It's hard to say. But like you, I doubt that my libido will ever disappear entirely - and desiring other women while not desiring your wife seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
Also, all this time you've been doing what you truly believe to be the best thing for your marriage. And by opposing you, your wife sends the message that she doesn't care about you or your marriage. As much as you love her, there's got to be some resentment that builds up inside of you, possibly reaching the point where you begin to question how you could love someone that doesn't seem to care about what's best for the two of you as a couple. That might put a damper on your desire to be intimate with her.
I agree with the others who have said to tell her exactly what you're feeling - now that she's had a taste of what you've been going through, maybe she'll be more willing to work with you to make things better. Good luck.
I know it is scary for you, Fred. But I see opportunity here. You have a choice as to how your use this experience. You can use your new experience as a way to empathize better with what your wife may have been feeling. Or you can use it to punish your wife with "see what it feels like!" Which approach do you think will be better for your marriage? Does the idea of nurturing empathy for your wife make you feel good or do you feel hostile to the idea? If you're feeling hostile to the idea of nurturing empathy, what do you think about that?
I'm with LL wholeheartedly. Tell your wife you don't get what is happening and it is horrible feeling this way. Then maybe say something like, "I think maybe I understand a little better what it may be like for you. You must feel pretty bad too when you haven't wanted to have sex with me." Then pull out SSM and go to the first chapter near the end and say, "Let's be like those couples that are working together on improving our sex life." (Okay, that last part may be a little stilted and too contrived.) But my point is to encourage you to use and do whatever you can to nurture your own empathy and positive feelings for your spouse, to encourage a joint approach to solving the problem.
Your wife has indicated a willingness to work harder on this. Don't forget to let her know you appreciate that. Do what you can to create an environment which keeps that going. Empathy promotes a sense of intimacy and love and mutual care.
Maybe your wife will be able to use the experience to empathize more with you. I hope she does. You don't have any control over what she chooses to do with it, however, so don't dwell on her choices. Keep your eyes on what choices you're making.
Also, as someone who has experienced a loss of desire, don't stress over it. Treat it as a temporary thing. Remind yourself that sometimes you need to just go ahead and the desire will kick in. Don't dwell on your initial lack of response...it will make it worse. Replace thoughts about your lack of response with memories of times when it was great.
Man, it seems like everybody’s getting slapped around this week. I think the advice you’ve gotten from Sooner, MPT, LostLove is right on. I especially agree with MPT (Muppet?) to use the opportunity. Think of it this way: you’re back on top of the world, you’re libido is not controlling your every move now. I know this is overly simplistic. It must suck big time to lose your interest after trying so hard to reestablish intimacy with your lady. I suspect you hit freak-out mode from wanting it so bad; I know it is exhausting to be continually running on a treadmill after your honey and she just keeps out of range. I agree that it will probably subside if you want it to. Let her work for it a bit.
Definitely be completely open with her and discuss it. That’s the trouble in my situation now is that I can’t discuss anything. You have been giving a rare opportunity, a gift, use it wisely.
I know that the building resentment, sadness and pain do cut into my libido (not to the point you hit). You are probably, like me, oddly afraid to have sex with her in case it is just an anomaly, a singular rare event, a teaser and that it is almost not worth it unless it is the beginning of a trend towards healthier intimacy.
Try not to get overly worked up and worried about it yet. Consider ravishing her with pure animal passion, letting go of all the relationship lovey-dovey for a tasty romp. Michelle’s just do it policy might apply here.
I read some of your thread over in Infidelity/Jealousy and in my opinion you should not worry too much about the sudden lack of interest in your part. I think you've had a hard time dealing with not just SSM but also issues about A and OG. It is probably just the face of resentment and maybe perhaps even 'revenge' showing itself. However, do discuss with your W about your confusion or she may be wondering why you're rejecting her now that she is trying. Don't go through this confusion alone. Discuss it with W and make it something you both go through together to strengthen your M. Hope this helps some. LH
Well, thanks for all the thoughts and ideas. My W doesn't want to discuss anything though. She doesn't want to read anything. She doesn't want to change anything. And, she doesn't want to be or do anything that might be construed as proactive, to our R or anything else for that matter.
The "feeling" of not having any feelings is not as strong as it was last week. Does that make any sense? LH, you are right that there is more than just the SSM going on. But I think it is sinking in that no significant changes to our R will happen. And the despair of knowing I will be sexually frustrated and emotionally unhappy for as long as I remain married to W has me questioning my lot in life.
Here's a few exerpts from recent emails from my W:
-I hear what you are saying. If you are so unhappy with our marriage then why don't you just get out? Why live life in a miserable relationship?
-Do you really think finding another woman to have sex with is the answer? If so then you have my full on blessing to go for it! I don't know what else to do. I guess if you would rather me just spread my legs open everyday then I will.
-You are doing the things I want. You seem to listen to me when I tell you things. You have been fabulous when it comes to the kids.
You can probably see from these exchanges some of the things going on. The last one relates to all the changes I have made to make her more happy. But she isn't going to change anything she does. Hence the one about "if you are so unhappy the why don't you just get out". Basically that's her cop out so she doesn't have to try to improve anything. Her philosophy is that things are the way they are and efforts to change them are somehow bad and unnecessary. Yet she enjoys the fruits of my efforts.
And, obviously the middle one relates to me telling her that I am tempted to have an affair since she doesn't care about my feelings (hurt from lack of intimacy). I really don't even think she would be very upset if I did have an affair. I just don't know.
We were in New Orleans over the weekend and I let my eyes wander all over the place. That is something I have never done in front of my W before. I made no attempt to not be obvious. She never said a word. Even her mother noticed and it freaked her out. She noticed how distant we were too and starting telling me how happy she was that I was part of their family, how I was such a good father, how she was proud that we were working so hard to stay together, etc. There was so much alcohol involved that I really doubt her mother remembers much.
I'm sorry this has turned into a ramble. I don't even know what point I'm trying to make with this post. I'm still confused.
FredD
The most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother.
Your wife’s attitude is even more like my wife’s than I had thought. Those email excerpts from her that you put on the last message were so close to the things that my wife has said that it was if I had written your post. Quotes like these ones (including your conclusions) really hit home:
“’My W doesn't want to discuss anything though. She doesn't want to read anything. She doesn't want to change anything. And, she doesn't want to be or do anything that might be construed as proactive, to our R or anything else for that matter.
’if you are so unhappy the why don't you just get out’. Basically that's her cop out so she doesn't have to try to improve anything. Her philosophy is that things are the way they are and efforts to change them are somehow bad and unnecessary. Yet she enjoys the fruits of my efforts.”
I told my wife that I was very happy with our relationship except for the intimacy area and the fact that frustrations there were negatively affecting other areas. I said I hated pressuring her and that it was an important area of a relationship for me. Although She seemed to at least look thoughtful at that moment (not angry or dismissive is GREAT). No changes but I’m sure she can’t help but think about what I keep bringing up and struggling to comprehend how the hell I could still be so in love and attracted to her after being together for so many years.
Like you, the despair of realizing that you might have to stay in such a painful situation is often unbearable. If there were any signs that the tide could possibly turn in our favor someday I think that most of us could hang on and weather through the stormy times. It’s the not knowing if they will ever make the effort to come back to us. They’ve already been having an affair with someone else: themselves. By keeping their love to themselves they have essentially been cheating on us. I’m not saying that we have the right to an affair with another woman now but they certainly aren’t making it easy for us to avoid it. Obviously, all of us that are suffering from a low libido spouse have had the temptation of an affair cross our minds.
We keep getting pushed to get out and go for it with another woman; I’m wondering if they would be the ones to leave if we took the liberty of free expression (a sort of offensive, instead of always being defensive), telling them more often how we feel, accepting the consequences of sleeping in the doghouse or whatever. They seem to always be the ones to say “leave if you’re so unhappy!”; that doesn’t mean that we have to leave. I have little interest in leaving, what I want is my lover to be my wife. I don’t think my wife would actually take the step to walk out unless we started fighting all the time or something. Maybe if they were a little more unsatisfied with the relationship they would also be interested in improving things. I don’t really know, I’m grasping at straws now, looking for possibilities in strange places. Some things that WhyNotCheat posted in my Jekyl & Hyde thread made me start thinking more aggressively about crazy ideas, ways to be more confident and let her stew until she’s ready to deal with life.
Letting your eyes wander might be another way to get her attention (or it just might piss her off, but hey, she doesn’t want you eyeing her up, does she?) I personally believe that enjoying the scenery is all right, frolicking through it in the buff is another problem. I say go ahead and let her mom freak out. Maybe she will say something to her daughter to get her to snap out of it. They obviously won’t take any advice from us, maybe if enough other people, especially those they respect or look up to, said something our wives might consider it a bit more heavily.
Here’s an untested crazy idea (my wife hasn’t given me the option of trying this): Why not have an affair with her for just sex? If your wife offers to just “take it” then maybe “just give it to her” might not be such a bad idea. I’d say,”I’d like to have tender lovemaking with you rather than have you just let me screw you but I’m so desperate for sexual contact with you that I’ll accept whatever you’re willing to give me.” There are days when I am so desperate for sex that I would pay her for it. I know it is counter intuitive and definitely not the loving intimacy that we need but it might take some of the pressure off so that you could actually function in society. Like Michelle’s “just do it” philosophy, she might eventually warm up and enjoy it (use plenty of lube in case it takes a while for her to soften her hardened heart and body). It might also add some shock factor because she knows you want more than just sex and is betting that you won’t accept such a crude offer. I say take her up on it, accept and act on it in that moment if possible or set a time. Do it calmly, like you’re setting up a business meeting. She’ll be stunned. She’ll either have to retract the offer (compromising her own words) or follow through. The other possibility is that it will make her really pissed and she’ll storm out (don’t hate me if this happens, I’m just throwing out the idea that the insane might be the sanest thing to do). No matter what I’ll bet it will get her thinking. Anyway, if things are really shitty and desperate, why not try it?
Above all we need to see real effort towards real changes in behavior and attitudes. Even if the stars aligned for one evening and we got some mind-blowing sex (this would be very good) it doesn’t mean that there has been a change of heart or attitude, although it sure couldn’t hurt to begin that way. There needs to be a change of perspective, an opening of understanding, a direction towards working together in improving sex. Any improvement (even sex for sex) is an improvement and I think likely will lead to other changes.
Fred D, We all ramble on and vent when we're here, so don't worry about it. Just remember that for every negative action there is a negative reaction and your actions have not been very positive lately. If you are serious about rebuilding your M than you must work harder, I am afraid.
I don't think your W is so closed up to changes. She did stop the EA and come back to you. Once started, it is not so easy to put a stop to it but she did make an effort so that says a lot of how she must feel about you and your M. Now isn't that being proactive about your R? You had better go all out to prove to her that she made the right decision or you might just drive her right back to OG. I know that will be hard on you but it will be worth it. An A need not wreck a M. It can make it stronger if handled the right way. To have a harmonious, loving and warm home does wonders for one's health and well being. Besides you are way better than OG. OG does not have the history that you have with W. He does not have the special bond that you have with W in your mutual love for your child/children.
Good luck to you. I hope your sitch improves for the better if you start seeing it in a more positive light. LH
