Life, One Day at a Time (22 months)

[25yearsmlc]

Yes, we passed our 19th anniversary while he was still living in our house, doing our laundry, eating our meals, and sleeping in our bed. Our 20th anniversary will be next November. In May 2011 I didn't even know we weren't happily married so that's just plain not going to be the date. December 2012 is when he moved out, we told our kids, and began to tell neighbors/parents and act like we were separated.


then you have corroboration of the date. He doesn't. Correct?


His proposal I believe assumed that I financially couldn't afford to buy the house yet (and also protected his interest in the future increased value of it). So it was that he pay the mortgage and continue owning half of the house. In his math the mortgage is approximately equal to child support plus about $300/month, so he'd pay it for five years and then we'd sell the house and split it in half. S12 will be about 18 then, so according to this plan, he contributes financially both child support and spousal, until the youngest is 18, and then cashes out and is done.

That was his "generous" way of "letting" you keep the house. But it's a good thing you can do your own math. And make sure the 12 y/o has thoroughly DOCUMENTED special needs.

On principle, I do not want to co-own a house with my X.

Coming from you, that does not sound punitive, but like a healthy boundary. And I would not want him to be my "business partner" either.


I have a letter of approval for a loan in the necessary amount to buy him out. I will be able to afford the mortgage and our other family expenses IF I have the $1700/mo child support dictated by the charts in Virginia PLUS a little bit more. Something like about $350/mo will enable me to pay the bills and scrape by, not starve but definitely not live at the level we've been living at.

Well if you are waiving the right to his pension, AND OR NOT dividing all of the retirement accounts, that ought to be doable but is it advisable?


My initial thinking is that typically I could expect support for 10 years, not 5, due to the length of our marriage. I'd like to take that second half of potential spousal support and reduce it from his equity so he can have his wish of being done in 5 years.

SOMETIMES you can get lifetime spousal support for a m as long as yours. But I guess if your L has told you what to expect and you work, then, that's that. My recall was that you'd get it for life OR until you remarried....but that info is old.

When I'm overwhelmed I procrastinate. I'm getting a lot of other stuff done, so don't think I'm spending my days hiding in bed under the covers, but you can see with this separation agreement that I'm frozen in fear. Have to block some time to formulate my response to his proposal.

Honey, the worst case scenario is BETTER THAN HIS proposal. So your fears are NOT reality based...at least have realistic fears...

his "5 year plan" (like Stalin had) is not realistic. What's YOUR Lawyer telling you? Do you trust him/her?

Perhaps you can help me with this: Is it better to come back to him with a completely fleshed out counterproposal with numbers plugged in? Or is it better to tell him to go back to the drawing board removing the assumption that we'll co-own the house, and be more realistic about the spousal support number?

I suggest you do the above, it's a counter proposal. Like ALL business negotiations, do not begin with your bottom line; ask for more than you expect to get but within reason. Letting him come back with yet another silly proposal of 3% higher numbers will delay things and irritate him, IMO.

Just Don't infuriate him w/crazy requests (though maybe he'll think anything beyond HIS plans are infuriating)

but do ask for all of what you want, and then,

be prepared to negotiate the difference.

And - at what point do I tell him the house needs to be sold, whether it be to him, to me, or to a buyer, but I prefer it be to me? What if he says no to me buying it? If he says yes, should I get the refi started now or wait till the separation agreement is agreed to and signed?

MAYBE but ask the L and maybe a realtor, if you can Let him know the house ought to be sold, though you'd be "open" to buying him out-don't show all your cards...and why NOT start the refin work now? I mean, is there an advantage to waiting -like having more certainty of numbers or what?

The fact of the matter is, our mortgage is less than a 2BR apt in our school district. I will afford it because I have no better alternatives. So it may not be jumping the gun to get the process started no matter how our separation agreement pans out. I don't know.

um, it seems you DO know. Look at your words.^^^ Go ahead.

Regarding sports and college, in an exploratory conversation with H I learned his current position is that child support to age 18 is intended to cover anything they might need, and if I want them to have more it's up to me to figure out how to pay it out of the state mandated child support.

well I believe he's incorrect. Really....Ask your Virginia lawyer... I'm confident that your son's learning problems are added costs for both parents.

As for sports, I guess some of it depends on how much your h values his r with his son. Does he really not give a damn? Doesn't he know that your son will notice NOT having money for Lacrosse?

And You MIGHT tell him he could start saving for his son's sports, by not spending on OW's toys (I'm teasing...sort of...)



Regarding college he sees the child declaring emancipation as a viable alternative, and also not going to college as a viable alternative. I like the 1/3-1/3-1/3 idea; is that written into separation agreements or negotiated when the time comes?

Your h sure has self serving "Beliefs". Did HE pay for his own college? I did but it's harder to do so now.
Anyhow, I've seen college agreements in writing OR agreed to later. Also might mandate it be a state school b/c you don't want to HAVE to pay for a third of NYU...(tell your son to STUDY MORE, party less!!)

For YOU, given your son's feelings about his dad and how we don't think it'll improve SOON, maybe you ought to get something in writing now IF you can...maybe trade off for a year of support or a tiny % of pension...

did you know you can get probably some of his pension? How long has he worked at his department? Whatever years there overlap with marital time, are divisible.What about 401ks? IRAs, etc.?

If he won't agree now, don't get a bad agreement, IN WRITING...just leave it alone then and hope he cares more later. As you know from my sitch, the kids feelings don't fade so fast...

Again, I'd defer to the Virginia L on this one. But my div siblings live in your state, one sister and 2 brothers. ALL 3 paid for some of their child's college and it was 1/3-

EXCEPT 1 sil paid a bit more b/c she earned more than that particular brother. The other brother, who pays 1/3, has...wait for it...SEVEN DAUGHTERS and he's paying 1/3. One d isn't going to college to his disappointment, but her wedding costs what an Ivy degree would cost... Guess your h could be glad you don't have d's...


I'm leery of waiting until the time comes because I'll be ancient history then; he's sort of trying to get along now and may have no incentive to THEN.

Good points! And do you believe he loves your son? I think you do. So, how can you appeal to his loving father side? What positives motivate your h?

[25yearsmlc]

PS

SandyCay I'm so sorry you were told you could not get more than CS in Washington state or wherever you live. I don't know how long you were married or other factors.

But in Virginia, Adinva can get CS and alimony under certain circumstances. Length of marriage, differences in income, children, the children's own needs, are some of the factors in determing the amount of alimony.

[Mach1]

But in Virginia, Adinva can get CS and alimony under certain circumstances. Length of marriage, differences in income, children, the children's own needs, are some of the factors in determing the amount of alimony.

Yep....

Something to think about though....

If you take it all as CS...it isn't taxable,


Alimony is...


Go for BOTH, and settle down to CS only, at a slightly higher rate...???


Jus sayin...

[leopoldstotch]

Adinva,

I want you to know that child support is considered to be all the support he has to give. I learned this the hard way when during talks we just agreed to split auto insurance cost, sports, camps etc. However, as that is not written in the final docs.....he doesn't have to provide anymore than the CS obligation. Lesson learned!

With two teenagers driving you can imagine that my insurance is very high. Plus the cost of senior year and teenagers. But I go without so the can have what they need.

He has not even bought a pencil for either one of our kids. AND since S has turned 18 .....nothing.

We are currently back in court of Post secondary education expenses. He makes almost $200,000 per year so I can't imagine why he won't help!

Reading that just made me ashamed to be a man. My W and I are going through divorce mediation right now and my boys are older. I cannot imagine not paying for things for them. My oldest is 23 and I still help him out financially and I probably will for the rest of my life. I don't understand why some "men" do this to their children and I use the word men loosely because to me they aren't men at all.

[leopoldstotch]

AD are you waiving your right to his retirement and if so why? I asked my W if she would waive her rights to my retirement in exchange for me waiving my right to half the house. She said no so I'm staying in the house and when I sell it I will give her her half.

If I were you I would hand him a counter proposal with your numbers. I haven't read your posts in a long time but are you doing everything through lawyers or are you going the mediation route like my W and I are?

[sandycay]

25 ~ I get child support and spousal for 5 years. We were married 19 years.

I got a great settlement, I am not complaining. It's just frustrating that he confuses spousal support with that means I provide the kids with all the extras. AND since he is to busy and has nothing to do with them....I need them to drive, go to camps (so I can get a break) etc.

We just kind of verbally agreed I would take on the extra expense of one kid and he would take the other...this was before he went all mean.

[25yearsmlc]

I just remembered....adultery is grounds for divorce in Virginia...(see? An upside to everything! )

and sometimes, it counts even while separated...just sayin'

[adinva]

A few quick things:
the retirement account wd be split 50/50.
There is no pension (contractor not fed)
One yr sep is also grounds in VA; i was told by my L that adultery wd b meaningless to the court.
H makes about twice what i make and has a benefits pkg; i have no benefits.
I work part time; L says the court would probably base my spousal support on a fulltime extrapolation of what i earn. H resents that hes been subsidizing me in the years ive been home with the kids after school. i told L that with whats been going on the is NO way i'm going fulltime till the kids are in college; he said he wd ordinarily advise it but saw my point.

[adinva]

Started a new thread:

Life, continued