Actually, 25, I did tell her that part of the reason why I was giving up my days was just that - trying to make amends for the many holiday seasons that she missed with her family while we were together. She responded that she was grateful...but also said (re: holidays with my family) that she "allowed" it. Wasn't really sure how to take that.
Having kept arms length away from XW during these 10 days away has been interesting. I have only proactively texted her twice - both times just asking "how are you doing". She has texted many pictures and, to my surprise, twice texted me first asking me how I was doing and how my break was going. I kept my responses short. Keep in mind she NEVER texts me just asking how I am doing. Maybe that's what happens when I keep to myself more? I dunno. Regardless, it was a nice touch.
Last night she texted me to tell me that she and S would be getting back early Saturday morning and asked if I would like her drop him off with me as she was returning home (technically, it's HER weekend). I live quite a ways past the airport and totally out of the way of her place. I figured after an early wake-up for S, a few hours of air travel and one stop in Denver, he would be wiped out and cranky. I told her to just take him back to her place and let him rest - we could play it by ear later. I figured she would be pretty tired, too.
Several hours later I texted her saying that it was thoughtful of her to offer to do that - I said thank you.
The last 10 days have been really helpful in getting me to work on not over-communicating and maybe giving her a chance to miss me some. I am also still thinking back on the "give her back to me" message from Christmas eve service.
Having kept arms length away from XW during these 10 days away has been interesting. I have only proactively texted her twice - both times just asking "how are you doing". She has texted many pictures and, to my surprise, twice texted me first asking me how I was doing and how my break was going....Maybe that's what happens when I keep to myself more?
This is what many of us have meant by saying that you are getting in your own away. If you get on with your own life and pull away and separate from her, she will move towards you if it is what she wants.
As a point of reference, I went about 11 months without ever initiating ANY communication to my WAS (i.e., any contact we had was in response to her initiating something). And for about 3 of those months after I said I was done, I stopped even responding to her non-emergency communication (not in an angry way, in a "this is what I need to do to help me move on" way.)
Leave her alone and HAPPILY move on. Let her fix herself (with His help, if you think that way).
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Having now been engaged in this DB process (even after the actual "D") I am beginning to understand that there is no one single approach that uniformly works in all situations. Rather, I have found that a combination of things that have been shared with me and others here seems to be ideal. In other words, the "swiss army knife" approach. Allow me to explain.
I am about 16 months past the bomb date and now starting to seriously entertain and live "life from a distance" as it pertains to my now XW. Why now? To behonest, I believe if I would have started that 16 months ago, due to the specifics of my situation, it would have worked against me...a lot. By that I mean my XW would have thought that no change would have occured and that the man that she left was STILL that man that she left.
LIS made a good point a few weeks back on my thread - I think my ex really needed to see change, growth and improvement before I did a significant pull-back. I think that has happened/is happening. I think she is in a better position to (pardon the egotistical nature of this statement) see what she would be missing or losing out on if I really just quit...if SHE really quit. To date, I have never really left or stopped overtly trying. She knows where I am, who I am, what I want, etc - my work on that end is pretty much done.
This time away with her out-of-state has been a good jump-start to me trying to back further off. I hope I can keep the momentum going.
Everyone that I have encountered on this board that has somehow made it back with their SO has had a period of "contented non-contact". Seems like that is just part of the deal and my time is fast approaching - if not here already.
To behonest, I believe if I would have started that 16 months ago, due to the specifics of my situation, it would have worked against me...a lot. By that I mean my XW would have thought that no change would have occured and that the man that she left was STILL that man that she left.
LIS made a good point a few weeks back on my thread - I think my ex really needed to see change, growth and improvement before I did a significant pull-back. I think that has happened/is happening. I think she is in a better position to (pardon the egotistical nature of this statement) see what she would be missing or losing out on if I really just quit...if SHE really quit.
There are two separate important issues in what we're talking about.
One is I am distinguishing between INITIATING vs. RECEIVING contact. Not INITIATING contact with the WAS is not at all the same as not giving the WAS an opportunity to see that you are changing. I think many LBS confuse this (I did too at the outset) because of (1) the fear that the WAS may drift away if you don't maintain contact, or (2) the feeling that you need to "do something", "show them you're changing", "amend for past errors", "make up for past neglect", etc.
Neither are true. It doesn't go well to chase a squirrel to feed it or run after a cat to show it that you know how to pet it. The dance goes alot smoother if you go about your own business and wait for the squirrel to come to you when it's hungry or the cat to approach you because it's in the mood to be petted.
I wrote that I did not INITIATE contact with her for 11 months, NOT that I was not RECEPTIVE to contact from her for 11 months or that I did not change for 11 months. In my opinion, the "minimal INITIATION of contact" is key because it means EVERY TIME the couple have an interaction, it is in the context of the WAS WANTING to contact the LBS. The WAS is in an emotional mindset in which they are receptive/drawn to the LBS and less angry/resentful/numb to the LBS. That alone tends to make the interaction go better and also makes it a better context for the WAS to experience how you have changed. It's like stacking the deck in your favor.
When they contact you, it's a golden opportunity to 180, shine (but not to overdue it -- always reciprocate in kind), behave your changes, or amend for your past mistakes if that is what they are seeking. Then get on with your separate, busy, interesting life again. Until they chase again, etc.
There really is no need for the LBS to initiate contact of ANY kind. It is usually counter-productive because of the dynamics of pursuit/flee in relationships. The WAS will initiate contact with the LBS at some point (certainly not initially with the frequency that the more attached LBS is comfortable with). If the WAS does not initiate much contact, then I think it is extremely unlikely that any course of action could have saved the relationship (the WAS was too detached by that time).
In other words, my view is that your WAS/xW best experiences the new Crimson in the context of times when SHE initiates contact with YOU. And she is more likely to initiate contact with you (and be in a receptive/connecting mindset) if you have not been initiating contact with her. At its most basic, she is most likely to re-attach, when she is initiating the attachment behavior.
You said your sitch was unique, but I have read hundreds (thousands?) of surprised LBS remark about being called, texted, sent pictures, hugged, pursued, etc. when they stopped initiating any contact with their WAS. It happens as early as D-Day or as late as years down the road in almost every sitch. I think it is almost a universal -- our social human nature of attachment/detachment (pursue/chase).
The second important piece is the idea of change before pullback. There are two parts to the change idea, really. One is that you actually ARE changing (and not in order to get her back). You can't shortcut this and need to do this work for real. I agree this is ESSENTIAL to be attractive and also for success in the piecing phase and it can take many months (or longer). You have admirably done this work for quite some time and continue to.
The second premise is that the WAS must experience/observe the change as a prerequisite to later reconciliation. The idea that there needs to be some good memory to miss, that the WAS needs to believe things will be different, that the WAS can trust you, etc. I used to think this as well and also used it to explain my protracted receptive behavior in the first 8 months of my own sitch. From reading sitches on here and elsewhere and the resolution of my own sitch, I now think the importance of this part is somewhat over-rated or, more, specifically, that it usually gets drawn out longer than needed or healthy.
Another website (marriage builders) refers to the showing/amending phase as Plan A. When Plan A (almost invariably) doesn't result in reconciliation, most people detach and some form of moving on/turning away from the R/less contact happens. Marriage Builders describes this step as Plan B (it's essentially the "last-resort technique" in DB). Marriage Builders recommends that the Plan A phase be A FEW WEEKS for women LBS and NO MORE than 5 or 6 months for male LBS.
As you have observed (below), almost all reconciliations actually come after Plan B/move on is put into effect (or if they don't reconcile, then the LBS begins to emerge happily into their new life). I firmly believe that the reconciliation is driven by the basic human drive to attach/re-attach/reconnect after loss and that it can happen IN SPITE of remaining low trust, uncertainty about the partner/future relationship, past hurts, etc. Those are issues that need to be resolved in the piecing phase, but I do not think that the initial reconciliation requires they already be resolved. I think that is where many put the cart before the horse.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
Everyone that I have encountered on this board that has somehow made it back with their SO has had a period of "contented non-contact". Seems like that is just part of the deal
I think it is the most important part of the deal. If you read carefully, most of the reconciling WAS still had doubts, uncertainties, trust issues, hurts when they came back to piece and try again. Plan A did not resolve them (or bring the WAS back).
In my view, Plan A is mainly for the LBS to change and secondly for the WAS to gain a QUICK REMINDER of the good that the LBS used to be and a GLIMPSE/TASTE of how a healthier R might be in the future. And then accepting that the spouse has not reconciled, the LBS should very soon thereafter detach.
Not doing so draws out the situation unnecessarily. Worse, continuing the time apart with marginally/partially connected lives (split up/separated/divorced) runs the real risk of further diminishing the buried attachment that still binds the couple and making separate seem normal/right/familiar/comfortable). In my opinion, detaching from your WAS sooner (than later) can help attachment dynamics (and Him?) play their role before the WAS's remaining attachment to the LBS wanes over time and further split experience.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Wow Busto. Thank you for articulating all of that the way you did. It really helped me see things a lot more clearly.
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
It is that issue of being Mr. Fix it by constantly trying to do things to fix the relationship by doing changes that you believe she will find positive vs. personal growth through positive changes that grow your self esteem.
Busto you said it well.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
Crimson - Busto hasn't just given you little pearls of wisdom, I'd say you are getting the whole flippin oyster! The trick is, now that you have the oyster, what are you going to do with it?
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
It is that issue of being Mr. Fix it by constantly trying to do things to fix the relationship by doing changes that you believe she will find positive vs. personal growth through positive changes that grow your self esteem.
Busto you said it well.
and so did you, chatter.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
BTW Crimson, re the holidays all spent with your family. When your xw said she "allowed it', I think she meant that SHE was taking some of the responsibility for that happening. Not just blaming it all on you... which sounds good & fair, to me.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
