Is this cake eating? 10

[littleGTO]

NLW,
So sorry you're having to deal w your H's mlc. He's in a very nasty place. Definitely hitting bottom. Could have been the holidays. See what January holds in terms of any positive movement on his part.

Continue w what you are doing,as I think you've been amazing. Don't try to cover for him w S14, as he has already formed his opinions.

Oh, and Happy NEw Year..I truly hope it IS happy for all of us here.

[NLW]

Hi Rick,
Thanks for dropping by.

You are right; it has to be business from now on.

Not so sure he's so convinced I'd do anything to keep him. I have been going nc and this has precipitated a bit of tantrum throwing on his part.

It's the distance /pursuit cycle where tantrum is an attempt to get me attending to him again.

I will try to keep out of his angst and hold my line on settlement as per lawyer's instructions.

[NLW]

Hi turtle,

I think the holidays had a lot to do with it.
Stbx seemed to spinning out with anger and hurt. He's feeling like he's losing control of me and the kids - we don't do what he wants - so he lashes out as hard as he can to try to get us to conform to his idea of how things should be.

He is indeed hitting bottom in the sense that nothing is working out for him in this process like he thought it would. I have not rolled over and given in to his demands for settlement. The kids don't want to spend time with him, his business is failing to generate income to pay his bills, and he doesn't feel happier.

Today, he came by to collect his clothes, as arranged.

I was "happy as a clam" - thanks Busto!

It went off really well.

Interesting thing was he ended up only taking a few shoes and 2 jackets and suits (neither of which he wears regularly). He left his shirts, Tshirts, jumpers and all of his ties (which are expensive and gorgeous and, previously, his pride and joy), indeed still about 75% of his wardrobe is here.

Go figure.

S14, who was here at the time, couldn't believe the turn-around in him from the other day when he was so angry.

S14 also couldn't understand why he didn't take all of his clothes.

His explanation:
Dad was just mad at you the other day and said he was taking his clothes away to punish you and make you feel bad.

Fits the bill, pretty much.

I know people will say I should tell stbx to take the remainder of his things or even bundle them up for him and put them out, but my gut tells me now is not the time. The time will come, but it's not right now for me.

Stbx ended up staying at our house yesterday when there was no pressure or anger from me (I acted happy/disinterested and went about my work without pausing and then off into my room to read). He played video games with S14 and sat and talked for over an hour.

Even called out 'good bye' to me and hung around until I came out, when he was leaving.

This was a real change from recent times.

Interestingly, too, stbx did get a phone call that he was real cagey about after he'd been here for about a half hour. Sorta talking in 'code' in a stilted way.

I suspect it was from OW checking that he was OK during the 'trauma' of taking his clothes. He'd obviously expected things to be difficult and had communicated this to OW (or someone) who was worried enough to ring to check on him when he'd hadn't returned immediately.

So, good to know I managed a real 180 in his eyes.

I'll keep working on my goal to re-establish a friendly relationship, but also continue to show that i am indeed as happy as a clam with how things are.

Act it, and it will come.... I am really happy about how things turned out yesterday - so in this sense, acting makes reality already.

[bustorama]

Hi NLW,

The 'act as if' and 'h a a c' approaches can be so effective, often most so so when the WAS comes in itching for a fight or expecting tension. It's hard to pick a fight or read a fight in someone who seems happy (or, if you do, not to realize that you are the source of your own negative feelings). And, like you said (and hard as it may seem sometimes), your actions can lead not only your own feelings but those of others around you.

I hear concern from you about S14's feelings re: the sitch and how his dad treats him in so much of what you say and frustration of WAS about his relationship with S14 in much of what you relay he says and does. It's not your responsibility to fix that, but it is ok to communicate with each of them about your feelings and to see if they want to connect/reciprocate about it in any way. Do you share about this stuff?

"S14, I know that last year must have seemed crazy and I know that you sometimes feel estranged from and angry with your dad. And then there's days like yesterday where you guys hang out and actually connect. I can only imagine how hard that instability is on you -- feeling that you can't count on him to be there." And see if he wants to talk about it. Or perhaps if he even has ideas on what might promote more stability in their relationship.

or to stbx

"Stbx, I know that last year has been tough on your R with S14. I can imagine that you sometimes feel estranged from him, especially when he doesn't agree to spend time with you. That has got to be hard; I know it would make me hurt. And it was great to see you guys connect yesterday, I bet that felt good. It is important to me also that you guys have a good R, because he needs you as his dad in his life, no doubt." and maybe open the door to talking about him having a REGULAR/SCHEDULED (not haphazard, on his convenience) day/night, etc. Or if he has ideas on what might promote more stability and connection in their relationship.

Happy New Year, NLW!! I see great things for you this year.

[NLW]

Thanks busto,

I had an opportunity to talk with S14 yesterday.

Stbx called and asked to speak to him. Wanted to take him out to go to dog park.

S14 had to explain that it was 41 degrees C today and not a good idea. Stbx then suggested his only other option: visit grandparents.

S14 didn't want to go with him.
D16 is visiting friends and S14 doesn't like to be out with his dad without her being there too.

Stbx took S14's refusal badly - not angry with him, just crushed.

I'll keep working on talking to both of them.

I've put the idea of a scheduled day for them to see stbx, but they were very resistant. At their age, and with constant contact with friends, they do everything at the last minute and don't want to be locked into stuff with parents.

Also, they resent the idea of being 'made' to go with stbx. They are hyper-sensitive about being 'told' to do ANYTHING.

[bustorama]

Oh, NLW, I bet it hurts and is frustrating to see them do this dance with each other isn't it. I was fortunate in that I didn't have the adolescent aspect of things (independence, sometimes oppositionality, etc.) in the context of our child sharing. So, I don't have good advice to offer. Hopefully, others do?

Is it possible your mediator might be able to suggest some sort of counselor to speak to the kids about wanting to balance their independence and spontaneity with also having a relationship with dad?

Or, perhaps they could also go ahead with plans with friends even during time with dad (in other words, if "Dad's time" doesn't mean that they HAVE TO actually be spending that time with dad and constrained away from their friends, maybe they wouldn't find it objectionable? It would just mean for those hours Dad would be like you -- sometimes they hang out with you during your 7 days of the week, sometimes they do their own thing. That would depend on Dad being gracious about his time, of course.

[littleGTO]

Hi, NLW,
Changed my name from turtlegirl to littleGTP (H was spying on all my posts!).

Maybe you could have S14 suggest something he would like to do w his dad, rather his dad forcing last minute plans on your S. That way it might be something they both could anticipate.

[2chiquitos]

Good idea littleGTO or turtlegirl.

[BklynMom]

Busto your script a couple posts back was awesome. Reading those something really clicked for me as to my next steps.

I am actually over wanting my h back but we do need to communicate regarding the kids and your scripts were the language that I need to be reading.

It is pretty obvious that the lbs need to do the heavy lifting. However our sitchs end up d or not we need make sure our kids are okay and that means having a strong relationship with the WAS.

[bustorama]

Love the idea turtle/lilGTO. It is spot on because it totally validates S14's feelings about it, and he might actually enjoy coming up with ideas to do together or when to hang out.

NLW, maybe you could even talk to S14 about taking a risk and assertively sharing how he feels with WAS. "Dad, I really do want us to hang out, I miss it. But it just doesn't work for me (or hurts me or makes me angry, whatever he feels) for you to show up at random times and to order me around like my feelings don't matter or I don't have life and for you to tell me I need to do A or do B. And then for you to get mad at me when I get upset about or if it's not a good time for me or I don't want to do either of the things. How about if we do it X way" (whatever he thinks would work for him and then the two of them could talk about it).

Brooklyn, yeah totally. I think the biggest thing we can give our kids through these sitches is a model of how to communicate/connect with each other and live, not only despite, but ESPECIALLY when, our most important relationships become hard or unmanageable.