What should I do? Which technique to use?

[jzoom]

Hello,

I am once divorced and found "The Divorce Remedy" too late but I have read it and tried to keep in mind all that it teaches...though emotions do cause problems with staying on track.

I am 30 with no children and back in May 2012 I got into a serious relationship with a 28 year old mother of 3 who is twice divorced.

As usual, things were great at first, plenty of chemistry and we both couldn't wait to see the other. Sex came naturally and we both enjoyed it very much. Due to some circumstances outside of our control we ended up rushing to live together and by the end of June her and the kids and her sister were living in my house.

She lost her unemployment and her and her sister were (and still are unable) to find suitable employment. Let the stress begin as finances and domestic life get in the way.

Going into July we were still doing ok but things were more stressful because of the finances and me learning to be around children. We take a trip to the beach at the end of July and things don't go well b/c a storm rolled in and cost got out of hand.

Rolling into Aug the stress and tension keeps building. Sex starts to dry up and that argument begins. She feels that all I'm after is sex and not a real relationship.

End of Aug I take a trip by myself to visit my parents. When I get back we are doing so-so, we have a good day the day after I return but some of the same issues start creeping up again.

When I attempt to "Act As If" she says that I am just pretending that nothing happened, that things don't just get fixed overnight. I ask to spend time with her on weekends and she just keeps telling me I'm miserable and she'd rather go out by herself with her friends......which she does frequently and I get angry about it.

These are the patterns which keep repeating..."more of the same" on both our parts. I keep trying to break the pattern but it only seems to last a couple of days at most. She keeps saying that all we do is fight and now I feel like all she does is push me and prod me and try to pick a fight.

I try being independent one weekend and going out alone. I don't really want to tell her what I'm up to b/c I'm trying to create mystery. She accuses me of cheating.

Over this past weekend I thought she was cheating on me b/c of stuff I find on Facebook and I confronted her about it while she was at a wedding where the guy was at. She tells me that she isn't, that it is just a running joke with her friends. People start talking and she hears that I've kicked her out which I didn't. She comes home very late after drinking and is very aggressive when we talk about what is going on.

A couple of days later the guy comes to me and tells me that it was all a ruse to get his ex-girlfriend to leave him alone. They didn't tell me b/c they didn't want me getting upset. She tells me that she needs a boyfriend that trusts her and I'm snooping on her.

I decide that I am becoming the kind of person I don't want to be and I do my best to cast out doubt. I figure, at least if she is cheating on me and the relationship ends I'll still feel good about the kind of person I am...though I can't cast out all doubt. We kind of put the matter to rest.

Monday morning we start arguing about her sister. I finally lose control and yell at her until she cries. She's hurt and upset that I yelled at her and it's even worse b/c it isn't something she did.

She has shut down now, she is very distant. She attempts to be polite to me but that's it. If I do anything even slightly wrong it turns into a fight. Sometimes I lose it and get a nasty tone, though I'm do all I can not to yell again.

I tried "Act As If" because I wasn't sure what else to do. I wanted to show her that I still love her, that I just want to be happy with her and when I'm around her. She hasn't been feeling well and doesn't really want to be touched by anybody, but I've still attempted light, loving, non-sexual touch at times. Sometimes she gets distant and sometimes she accepts it without comment, but she doesn't touch back. When leaving for work or going to bed I've kissed her on the cheek and tell her I love her...she just doesn't respond. Sometimes she'll say, "I never said you don't love me."

She had previously told me it is important, no matter how upset or how much fighting, to always say "I love you." So yesterday I ask her why she doesn't say it and I ask if she still loves me. She evades the question throughout the day. Last night there is a spat about the dog/kids. Once the lights are out I ask her when we are going to talk about what I asked.

She asks me how she is supposed to feel? She just doesn't know right now. After some back and forth she asks, "have I ever once told you I don't love you?" I say, "no." Pretty much, I take this as "I love you but I'm not in love with you."

So right, taking that I should go to "Last Resort Technique" but overnight I cuddle up to her and she doesn't stop me. The reason I do this is b/c I realize she's hurting and I need to do loving thins, push love buttons, charm her heart, just try to console her without judgement and try to lift her self esteem back up b/c she feels I'm always putting her down. This morning I help with getting the kids to school b/c she still doesn't feel well. I lay back down with her for a nap before work and cuddle up to her...once again she doesn't stop me.

After I'm up for work I check Facebook and stuff I posted on her wall is gone but other peoples remain. I ask her and she starts fighting with me b/c "it's just Facebook" and wondering why it's so important. I tell her that she had always said not to hide a relationship and I'm posting positive stuff. She says our relationship isn't back to that place and I tell her I'm trying to get it there.

I tell her I don't see how me being distant will help, that I'm doing loving things. She says that she is distant and I tell her very distant. She says she has a right to be and that this is how the relationship will be until she gets over certain things. She's telling me that I was all over her (cuddling up) like everything is ok.

I go get ready for work and she comes downstairs. It was raining and I need to take the motorcycle to work while she takes the car and she has a class tonight that will run later than what I am working. She says, "do you need taken to work?"

I, in an admittedly huffy tone, say, "nope, I'll ride." She says, "I try and do something nice and..." I say, "I appreciate the offer but how will I get home?"

She says, "I forgot, I'm allowed to forget sometimes. You could've said, 'thanks hun but remember your class' it's the way you talk to me. This is what I mean (sarcastically says love)" She heads upstairs but then calls to me and nicely tells me I can get ready.

I go up and with the bathroom door open strip down for my shower and dry off the same way, just curious if she would look/say anything about seeing me nude but doesn't look right at me or say anything.

I finish getting ready downstairs while she gets ready upstairs. Before leaving I go to her and nicely tell her to have a nice day and hope her class goes well. She tells me to have a nice day. That's it, I'm not pushing her on anything throughout the day through text or phone calls.

Here's where I'm lost, "Last Resort Technique" says to stop saying "I love you", to stop the chase, to basically stop trying to win your partner over. When I do that, yeah, she's polite but it all seems superficial. I had one point I had even said to her that I'm tired of living like roommates (over a month without sex and basically no intimacy in that time period either).

What really throws me is that when I cuddled up to her overnight and this morning she didn't stop me. She hasn't stop quick, light, non-sexual touch. She hasn't stopped me from kissing her on the cheek. She doesn't freak out when I say "I love you". It seems like in one way she wants me to "Act As If", to keep doing all those things...then it seems like at the same time she wants me to just stop.

I know it's just dating, I know it may end, hell I might end it if this keeps up much longer. For now though, I want to do all I can to make it work. What thoughts and suggestions does everybody have?

Thanks to everybody who responds.

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board.

You need to let her go.

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.

Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power

[AnotherStander]

Ugh. It's frustrating to read this, because you say you've read DR but then you do everything the opposite of the book. Why are you trying the LRT? You haven't even done any 180s that I can see. You just keep up the same harmful behavior that got you in this spot in the first place. You've been verbally abusing her, she keeps telling you to stop but you keep doing it and blaming it on her for starting it. Your situation is not going to improve unless you make changes to YOU. It sounds like it's not too late, but you've got to read DR again and this time follow the techniques.

And if you think parading around naked and/ or cuddling in bed is going to fix things you totally misunderstand how women are wired. They don't want sex when they're angry, they want compassion and understanding. Read the 5 Love Languages, learn your wife's primary language and start filling her tank up. You sound like you've nearly given up and you haven't even started yet, so get DR and 5LL and start with a beginner's mind (Step Number One)!

[jzoom]

Thanks AnotherStander, I need brutal honesty here. I realized that I was doing things wrong and thought back to when I had read DR and the one technique that stood out for some reason was LRT, so that's why I chose it. I was wondering if I was jumping the gun, going to an extreme.

It seems you're saying that my situation isn't that dire to do LRT so I will go back and re-read 180's and the rest of the book.

I brought DR to work with me today to read on my breaks and I've wanted to read 5LL but don't have it. I've read a couple other books that say stuff like filling up a "self esteem bank account" by paying compliments and other small gestures that make your partner feel good.

Last night I decided not to say "I love you" and I'm staying away from it right now since I either get silence or "I know." I ask her if she needs help with things and I'm making sure to do small, nice things around the house. Within the realm of DB is it ok to pay compliments like telling her she looks nice today? Or is that too much like chasing and focusing on the physical?

[AnotherStander]

Thanks AnotherStander, I need brutal honesty here.

And here you'll find it, we call is 2x4s (like a 2x4 upside the head, LOL!)

I realized that I was doing things wrong and thought back to when I had read DR and the one technique that stood out for some reason was LRT, so that's why I chose it. I was wondering if I was jumping the gun, going to an extreme.

Yeah, I think it's too soon. 180's are basically taking stock of your M and what you contributed to making things go wrong (none of us is perfect, we all did things that contributed) and then doing the opposite of those things. If you never helped around the house, then it's time to start helping. If you distanced from your wife, then it's time to move closer. Things like that. Obviously moving closer to your wife is the opposite of LRT, that's why I was saying not to do that just yet. First you need to show your W the husband you CAN and WILL be from now on, even if it doesn't change her mind right away at least you've shown it to her before you have to go with the LRT. Because she needs to see that you've changed and she needs to see it long enough to believe the changes are permanent (months) before she'll consider a turnaround.

I brought DR to work with me today to read on my breaks and I've wanted to read 5LL but don't have it.

It's available really cheap as an ebook, I went that route and just used the Kindle software on my PC to read it.

Last night I decided not to say "I love you" and I'm staying away from it right now since I either get silence or "I know."

Good, because if she's not saying it back then every time you say it it just reminds her ya'll are not on the same page. She knows you love her, so there's no need to keep saying it for now.

I ask her if she needs help with things and I'm making sure to do small, nice things around the house. Within the realm of DB is it ok to pay compliments like telling her she looks nice today? Or is that too much like chasing and focusing on the physical?

It's OK within reason, what I do is pay compliments to W like a friend might. So no sexually suggestive compliments, just things like "you look very nice in that blouse, I don't remember seeing that before, is it new?" That sort of thing. If you didn't do that before, then it's a nice 180.

Just keep in mind that the 180's will not result in immediate changes in your wife. She'll think they're a trick to get her back. The important thing in 180's is consistency. You must make them permanent and see them as changes you need to make for you, so that whether your W returns or not you're going to be a better person regardless.

Good luck!

[jzoom]

I haven't had a chance yet to start re-reading but will soon. I'm going to look for the Kindle 5LL as well.

I do help around the house, there was a time when she said I wasn't but I've helped ever since...to the point where I start feeling like she doesn't help around the house.

I haven't distanced myself from her, she feels that I'm all over her. That I want her all over me 24/7.

I did compliment her all the time. I would tell her she looks nice today even when she would reply with, "no I don't" I'd just tell her that she did. I would tell her that she is beautiful. I backed off on it once she started getting distant but will through it in every once in awhile.

[jzoom]

We talked earlier and for the most part I listened. I listened to all the things she had to say about what I've done wrong in our relationship. She interrupted me when I did try to speak and I just let her, I would just stop talking and let her go. I acknowledged the things she had to say and agreed with many of her complaints; I was taking responsibility for the things I've done wrong. I wasn't asking her for another chance, I wasn't asking her what I could do to make things right, I just listened and on a couple of things explained because she seemed to want a real answer. If she cut me off or changed the subject I let her. One time I could hear my voice rising and my tone changing and quickly stopped, looked down, took a deep breath, and started over in a softer tone and stayed calm.

I believe that my actions softened her a little. Her tone got less hostile as we went. Her body language changed by her uncrossing her arms and she stopped glaring at me. At one point, as she was telling me how I hurt her she looked like she was going to cry.

I tried explaining that while my behavior has been very bad, that I've been lashing out and acting childish, it's been because I'm hurt and scared myself. I told her that I'm scared that I've lost her already and that if I haven't that it's right on the edge.

She finally said it though, that she is not in love with me. She cares about me but her heart isn't in the same place it was a couple of months ago. She doesn't know if there is enough "care" left to get us back to where we were. I stayed quite and nodded my understanding.

I was devastated but ultimately not surprised. She wouldn't come out and say that I've lost her. After she said she wasn't in love with me she said started saying that she "doesn't know right now" and just needs a break. I said, "it sounds like you're confused because you said you don't love me and then said you don't know".

I sat thinking for a little bit without speaking or looking at her. I realized that if I have any hope at all I would have to begin LRT. I told her that I didn't want to keep her at the house, that if she could still go stay with her dad that she should. I told her that if she doesn't want to be here she doesn't want to be here and I understand that. She asked if she could use the car and I said yes. She started telling me that she would be back tomorrow night with the kids and I waved it off, told her to take her time. She insisted that she will be back tomorrow night and doesn't want the kids to know what's going on because we don't know what's going on. I agreed and then she asked if she could take a shower without me following her and I agreed. While upstairs taking the shower she asked me to get her a couple of things and I begrudgingly did.

I quickly got myself ready to go out for a little while, I wanted to leave before she did. I yelled up the stairs, "goodnight" and she asked why I was yelling. As I headed to the door I said that I thought she was still up in the room. I could see her feet on the stairs and she asked where I was going. I answered (and it probably wasn't the best tone of voice because it was stern on the verge of angry), "I'm leaving" and quickly went out the door and shut it before she could see me.

That's it, that was the night. I went and had a cup of coffee and read. I'm probably going to cry myself to sleep tonight. I'm ashamed of how I've treated her and I told her that I'm ashamed of myself. My plan is to go full out LRT tomorrow. I'll take care of myself during the day and when they get home tomorrow night I'm going to do all I can to be upbeat. I'm shooting for the "awakening". I'm going to focus on being her friend and getting back to being friends with the kids. I won't begrudgingly do favors for her if she asks, I'll do them with enthusiasm as a good friend would. I won't be asking her any questions about her day or her whereabouts. I had already re-read the techniques in DR and I'm going to re-read LRT again tomorrow.

She doesn't have anywhere to move right now. She said that she just needs a break. She said she doesn't know what she wants right now. So I'm taking the gift of time to make changes and I'm going to work on doing 180's to the things she told me hurt her in our relationship.

[jzoom]

Forgot something I think is important.

I think I really caught her off guard by telling her she should stay at her dads if she could. After I told her that I just hung my head. She said, "I care about you, you know that?" When I looked up her eyes where wide, pleading, looking like she might cry. All I could do was shrug and give a little nod as I looked down. She said, "are you ok?" Again, I looked up and there was concern in her eyes and all I could do was shrug.

[jzoom]

Ugh, the trouble with stress and a long day on little sleep, forgot another important tidbit.

Before her shower she said she wants to talk more about our relationship, she just didn't have anymore energy for it tonight.

[jzoom]

Since we are still living in the same house and I'm going to do LRT, do I keep doing nice things around the house? Do I keep doing her and kids laundry? Do I clean up messes? Do the dishes? Offer to get drink/food from the kitchen if I'm headed that way?

I don't want to come off as pursuing/chasing but at the same time I worry if I don't do any of those things then I will come off as cold and angry and just push her out the door even faster.