Good friend of mine has decided to divorce his W. He began to date a girl whom he works with. She is also M'd and has decided to leave her H, who happens to work FOR my friend (and obviously in the same company as his W).
Friend and girl both moved out of their homes shortly after they started dating each other.
So I invited my friend to join a 'couples' fantasy football league.
When my W found out that I had invited my friend and his new gf to join, she was upset.
She sent me this email:
"I really don't feel comfortable having them over. It seems a little soon to be acting like they're a "couple" considering they've only been cheating on their spouses up until what...a week or so ago when they both finally had the courage to move out? I'm sure you think it's fine and are in support of their behavior, but I'm not. So if you already invited them, fine. But I'm not going to be a part of their charades and if some crazy ex shows up at my house, ..."
This upset me because obviously I do NOT support what my friend is doing because he is still M'd.
It also upset me bc W pointed out that they were cheating ONLY up and until they moved out of their homes. This is apparently the line that she has drawn for her moral compass as to what is and what isn't cheating.
As I've stated many, many times, I am wishy washy about whether it's an A if there is a physical S, it still pissed me off.
I responded to my W with the following email:
"Friend knows that I don't support it whether or not they've moved out. However, he is my friend, so I felt that I needed to include him...".
I think that W got the point that her email had hit a chord with me because she quickly called me after getting the email. I did not act upset with her. We didn't talk about the emails or the subject matter in the telephone conversation. I think that she just wanted to make sure that we were still 'cool' and not arguing.
Anyway, my moral dilemma is really about my friend. I don't support him dating even though he is physically S'd. I've told him this in the past, prior to him actually dating the girl. However, things have gotten SO bad between he and his W that I honestly don't see any way that they could reconcile. And that is coming from someone who has read about hundreds of such situations here on this board. I've known his W for over 12 years and she really is an awful person. So, I kind of do support him in divorcing her. I hate to say that, but I do.
The dating thing, while wrong, is helping him have the strength to actually leave and divorce his W.
Lately, all I've told him is that he should file for D quickly.
Lastly, I need to say that I tried really, really hard to use the principles here on DB to help him fix his M. I did this for most of 2011 when they were beginning to have their problems.
So my obvious dilemma is that I have to support a very good friend while he is doing the same thing that my W did.
Opinions?
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
WOW! A lot to digest and intake for opinion...Let me think about this one a bit while I go for a run. This one is touchy because all of our Moral compasses are set differently.
I agree that we all have different moral compasses. That is why you need to act in a way that is consistent with YOURS. Anything else will only make you feel uncomfortable (at a minumum) or even guilty.
Whatever you decide to do based on your moral beliefs you can then have a conversation with W and explain your actions if you feel the need. I think that given everything you guys have gone through, she will understand if you differ on what is "right."
At the end of the day, you are the one who has to look in the mirror every day and like the man that is looking back at you.
Just my .02...
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
So you and your W are both in the league? You are running it and it's going to be at your place for certain things (i.e. draft)?
If that's the case, I think I would have discussed with W before inviting him, just because of the potential conflict. If it's going to make your W uncomfortable (or anyone else that attends), probably better to not have them there.
I think you can still invite him and be his friend, though you disagree with his behavior, but that whole situation makes me uncomfortable and I'm not sure I would have included him.
"I've known his W for over 12 years and she really is an awful person."
At the end of the day (as in all our sitches) it doesn't matter what your relationship is with the W. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors and only get one side of the issue.
"The dating thing, while wrong, is helping him have the strength to actually leave and divorce his W."
Typical exit A. If there's one thing it's NOT giving him is 'strength'.
Personally, like all the other sitches here. If you're not D'd, then it's an A. All the excuses that WAS's give to justify an A (I never loved you, You "never" respected me, I didn't love you in my mind, etc.) are all cop outs.
If you were that unhappy, just leave. Don't wait till you have someone and then you leave your spouse alone.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
As you say its a couples league. And they are in an active affair. Maybe in a few years when things settle invite him again. And only after they become friends of the marriage.
Just explain it to him male to male.
Leave the women out of it. Do not support the affair in any way. And this is supporting it.
Flowers always make people better, happier, and more helpful; they are sunshine, food and medicine for the soul. unconditional love is awesome!
MWD says that there is rarely no hope for a marriage and that the ones that you think are surely failing are often the ones that get worked out. So you really don't know if they can or will make it together. It's not for you to judge. IMO, it's unseemly to invite them especially after all you did and the struggles you went through to save your own M. I agree with Bond and Chatterbug. Just my opinion.
Thanks for all of the replies! I had a feeling that his one create a lively conversation.
Originally Posted By: Breakdown
So you and your W are both in the league? You are running it and it's going to be at your place for certain things (i.e. draft)?
If that's the case, I think I would have discussed with W before inviting him, just because of the potential conflict. If it's going to make your W uncomfortable (or anyone else that attends), probably better to not have them there.
I think you can still invite him and be his friend, though you disagree with his behavior, but that whole situation makes me uncomfortable and I'm not sure I would have included him.
Yes, they would be invited to come over to the house for the draft. Although it can be done online.
Yes. I should have ran it by my W first. Just didn't think about it as I invite this guy to everything and always have. I've been friends with him since we were in 6th grade.
Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I've known his W for over 12 years and she really is an awful person."
At the end of the day (as in all our sitches) it doesn't matter what your relationship is with the W. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors and only get one side of the issue.
"The dating thing, while wrong, is helping him have the strength to actually leave and divorce his W."
Typical exit A. If there's one thing it's NOT giving him is 'strength'.
Personally, like all the other sitches here. If you're not D'd, then it's an A. All the excuses that WAS's give to justify an A (I never loved you, You "never" respected me, I didn't love you in my mind, etc.) are all cop outs.
If you were that unhappy, just leave. Don't wait till you have someone and then you leave your spouse alone.
Figured this would be your opinion Bond.
No, I know that it doesn't matter what I think of his W. And I also know that I only get one side of the story. I am quick to point this out to our other buddies when friend's situation comes up. My opinion is based only on my interactions with his W.
Your opinion on what is an A is valid and well documented. Although I will point out that other people have different opinions. Even on this board.
Chatterbug... I think that you made a good point that inviting him and his 'gf' is actually supporting the R, which I don't agree with however you define it.
I do think that a person should get D'd before entering into any kind of new romantic R.
Originally Posted By: unbidden
MWD says that there is rarely no hope for a marriage and that the ones that you think are surely failing are often the ones that get worked out. So you really don't know if they can or will make it together. It's not for you to judge. IMO, it's unseemly to invite them especially after all you did and the struggles you went through to save your own M. I agree with Bond and Chatterbug. Just my opinion.
It isn't for me to judge. You are right. And I also think that, for the most part, you are right about MWD's position. However, my experience here and with the BITS has taught me that it is not 100%. There are marriages that simply do not work and are better off dissolving. I do NOT think that this is nearly 50% of M's which is about what our D rate is. I think that people are too quick to pull the D trigger and are usually unwilling to put in the work that we do here to TRY and reconcile a failing M.
But sometimes, it doesn't matter how much work you or the WAW puts into it. That is reality no matter how unpopular that opinion might be.
This is where I believe my friend's M is. Admittedly, that is only based upon the side of the story that I have heard and my own observations.
And trust me, I am VERY careful about what I tell my friend. Again, I tried very, very hard to pull him through and to help him fix this thing. I did that despite my own feelings for his W.
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Anyway, I just wanted to get others' perspectives on this. Thought it would be interesting.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
I am going to have to follow along with MrBond on this one! But that is just my belief on what WAS's use for excuses etc. to justify their actions. I am by no means perfect, but using another person to find the strength to leave someone seems kind of "Fishy" for a reason to bow out of a M.
But then again, these are all just our opinions on how we would react to a situation like this. You at the end of the day, have to find what makes you comfortable in dealing with; along with what keeps your own relationship inline with your W. You put a lot of hard work into keeping your own R alive, but that doesn't mean you can't remain friends with the guy.
Chatterbug... I think that you made a good point that inviting him and his 'gf' is actually supporting the R, which I don't agree with however you define it.
