After 18 months - H is finally filing.

[keep_going]

Hi,

I have not had my own thread for months - Not much progress in my own sitch.

So here is an update. Thanks, Starsky for finding interest in my sitch.

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My marriage failed because of two people. I own my part in this 100%. I didn't appreciate my husband, took him for granted, I have a short fuse and didn't have great communication skills.

I also felt unappreciated and ignored, but didn't deal with our problems correctly. I became angry and resentful towards my H. He did express his dissatisfaction to me, I didn't listen and always looked at his part in this instead of mine.
I never saw the severity of his unhappiness, and he never expressed that he was seriously considering leaving.

I realized we had a lot of problems, but assumed all marriages go thru very tough times and that we just somehow would need to find a way to get out of it. To me, D was never an option and I thought H shared that same value.

He had very, very valid reasons for leaving and I have looked hard in the mirror and have been working on myself since he left.Yet, he is telling anyone that I abused him emotionally for 13 years of marriage and he left to save our children from my abuse, so yes, there has also been some re-writing on his part.

As soon as H left, I started working on myself. After a few months I saw improvements - he started confiding in me, sharing and we even went out on three dates. I had no boundaries in place at the time - he came and went as he wished, saw the kids and socialized with us when he wanted, etc.

I found out about OW about a month into our S, but didn't confront until it all became too much for me - about 7 months into our S. After that, I was very inconsistent - either trying to set boundaries and going dim or trying to be friendly and compete with OW.

Right after the birth of our son a year ago, I realized he had just been cake-eating when he told me he was going public with his R with OW. I immediately stopped pursuing and set boundaries - most of the time I did not initiate contact and we stopped doing things as a family. But we argued a lot due to my lack of detachment. He distanced himself again and started introducing OW to friends and relatives and asked his family not to invite me to functions anymore.

Yet, in the last six months or so, he has done a 180 on me. He wants to be friends and makes an effort to improve our communication, but always being clear that OW is here to stay. He wants me to accept her and her involvement in our children's lives (to which I have always been absolutely against until we are divorced - and that has been the source of all our arguments in the last year.


It doesn't help that from what I have learned (and I snooped A LOT at the beginning), OW is actually a nice person and my H always told her we were done and he would never come back since I was abusive to him. He has told me that OW pushes him to get along with me and if it wasn't for her, our R would be a lot worse and she wants to be a good influence in my kids lives. Cannot compete with that right now...

I don't think my H is in MLC. Yes, at first he was depressed but he seems his old self again (minus his love for me). He has re-connected with old friends and family, is working on himself to become a better person and make himself happy. He GALs constantly and he wants me to find someone to be happy with. (Sometimes when he talks, I think he has read DR himself!) He has once again become the excellent father he was before leaving and is excited about making OW part of their lives too.

So his behavior doesn't really match what others here describe about their SO's - as dealing with depression, confusion, loss of a close relative, erratic behavior, selfishness, doubts, lack of self esteem, having doubts about the R, or having a loser OP.

So why are we not D yet?
H has been trying to convince me to do a collaborative D process, be amicable and do it cheaper for the sake of our kids and to be better co-parents.

Following advice from DB coach I told him I understand he wants a D and I won't stand in his way, but won't help him either since I don't want it. Yet he has taken this as me trying to control and stall the D process.
(Just this morning he sent me another email asking me to please reconsider and agree to a collaborative divorce.)

Sorry for the long post... I tried to summarize my sitch as best as I could. I feel that my H's current behavior is unique and am just looking for the best approach at this time.

[keep_going]

I decided to include my H's latest email re. D. I guess I am looking for feedback. Do I continue not helping him with the process?

Do I agree to the collaborative (even though I DO NOT want a D)...
It's been so long and hard that I don't know what is wrong, right, good or bad anymore.

Here is H's email:


Hi,

Following up on my last email about the divorce process, I wanted to let you know that I saw my L today. He is going to be getting in touch with your L to talk about next steps.
(PERSONAL NOTE: I have not hired my L and my H knows it, so I don't know what his L plans to do here).

After talking about things with my L, I wanted to again plead with you to consider the collaborative process. Since we've already sold most assets and we're pretty much 90% of the way on a custody agreement, there aren't many issues left to discuss. If you don't want to sit down in a room with me and discuss the rest, perhaps we can come up with a different solution, but....

and here's my wish....

I really want to do this in an amicable manner. As I told you I think our best bet for a solid long-term agreement that we can both live with is through the collaborative process. On top of that, the cost is significantly less. And at a time when we are considering all the options for the kids school and giving the kids a better life, I just want to keep our costs down as much as possible. There's a good possibility that we can get this done quickly and with very little argument. I truly believe that. You recently told me that you didn't think we had the same priorities. I want you to know that my priorities are quite simple.... make sure the kids have a safe, happy and adventurous childhood, secure their future with a solid education, and provide a solid financial footing for whatever their goals will be as adults. I don't think these are too different from your priorities. If we keep this in mind, we will come to the correct decisions together.

H

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[MrBond]

IMHO you should respond like this...

I will pass this along to my L and will have him get back to you.

Short and keep him guessing. He's just trying to make it easy on himself. Do whatever you can to protect yourself. If there is anything that you did not discuss, like the 90% custody agreement, then call him on it. Document all of this.

[keep_going]

MrBond -

Thanks for checking in. I am definitely documenting everything - I appreciate the advice, though.

I have not replied to H yet. I really have not retained a L (just consulted the one H is referring to when we first discussed collaborative).
My thought has been that I would retain the L when H filed, so I am not really sure what his L is going to do or how I should respond, if at all. He knows where I stand because we last discussed this less than a month ago.

Yet I find myself checking my motives after his email. I want to make sure that my decision comes from an honest place based on what I think is best for me and my children and not out of anger or wanting to further control.

I am not worried about H getting upset, but the truth is that there would be a very significant cost difference if we could do this collaboratively - about half the cost... So I cannot help but wonder if in the end I would be doing a disservice to my kids by spending that money IF we could indeed find a way to resolve it collaboratively.

Everything my H has proposed financially up to now is NOT fair (in CA there are set formulas to follow and he was offering a lot less). I told H from day 1 that I don't want more or less, but simply whatever the formula dictates in our sitch.

In addition, I have asked for no overnights with OW and kids and not bringing OW to kids' activities until D is final and H said he cannot accept that.

We also have disagreements about custody...

So in my heart I have felt all along that we are just not going to be able to collaborate since we are so far apart on such critical issues and I don't want to help him with this D process in any way either. Those are my main motives for not wanting to do this collaboratively, but if anyone sees anything else, please - I'd love to hear it. I want to be kept honest and not vindictive and I trust that people here would point it out if I was.

Thanks in advance

[zig]

keep going - i am glad you have come back on the boards to get support and advice. there are lots of good wise people here that can help you through this part of your process.

have you discussed with your DB coach about ow and the kids and your boundaries on that and h not agreeing? what is the coach's advice on that?

also did i understand correctly that you are going to retain the same L as your h?

have you asked h why he is not following the set formulas in your state, and if so what was his answer?

also do you know whether if he doesn't follow the set formulas whether the court would accept those conditions? are they just suggestions, or are they mandatory?

but most importantly, during these difficult times for you, what are you doing for yourself so that you can keep yourself grounded and in a good place? i'd love to hear more about that

zig

[keep_going]

keep going - i am glad you have come back on the boards to get support and advice. there are lots of good wise people here that can help you through this part of your process.

Thanks, Zig. I was away from the boards for a few months - it just was too much. (I think some people go thru this after a while). But I am glad to be back - I missed the support. :-)

have you discussed with your DB coach about ow and the kids and your boundaries on that and h not agreeing? what is the coach's advice on that?

Yeah... Unfortunately my boundaries re. OW and kids are really not enforceable. H can and is doing as he wishes on this, despite my continued and firm opposition to it. He just doesn't see anything wrong re. exposure or even his affair, since "we are not married anymore; we are separated."
Coach, Therapist and even the L I consulted told me that I can ask nicely, but ultimately cannot force the issue so best thing to do is accept it.

I don't let H talk about OW, or call or text in front of me or kids. I don't bring her up or ask about her and neither does he. That is all I can do. I try not to think about what they do with my kids when H has them.
(Unfortunately when I backslide and we argue, this is the main issue that always surfaces - he blames my anger about this on jealousy and I help validate his POV as he ends defending her.)

also did i understand correctly that you are going to retain the same L as your h?

We would each have our own. In the collaborative process the four of us would then sit down and negotiate everything together. Cost would be less, since we would resolve issues in person and with less back and forth.

have you asked h why he is not following the set formulas in your state, and if so what was his answer?

He says that since I have always worked (and at times earned more than him) we should split kids' expenses 50/50 and that I should support myself, since I am capable of it. Yet in CA, alimony is granted in marriages longer than 10 yrs., which would be our case, based on those formulas / guidelines that he doesn't want to follow.

also do you know whether if he doesn't follow the set formulas whether the court would accept those conditions? are they just suggestions, or are they mandatory?

If we end up going to court, a judge would most likely follow the formulas, that is why any decent L in CA would recommend settling out of court following those guidelines - same outcome and less costly in the long run.

but most importantly, during these difficult times for you, what are you doing for yourself so that you can keep yourself grounded and in a good place? i'd love to hear more about that

zig

I actually do pretty well with GAL. Now that I am not working, my kids keep me super busy and I am focusing on making the most of my time with them, since I know I will have to go back to work in a few years. So I am truly bonding with them and doing fun activities together.
They also help me practice being more patient, understanding, compassionate and emotionally involved (180s for me).
When kids are with H, I focus on things I had stopped doing - socialize with friends, work out, read, stay in touch with friends and family in my native country and working on my changes.
I make sure to look and dress nicely all the time and I look the best I've ever had (If I may say so myself ;-). And people notice and I get lots of compliments from friends and family.

After a year and a half, I have come a long way emotionally and personally - I am not the wreck I was when the bomb was dropped. And while I still have a lot of weaknesses and defects to continue improving on, I am on the right track. Slower than most here, but at least on the right track.

Thanks again for checking in!

[25yearsmlc]

KeepGoing

I MISSED YOU!

You are among the most impressive cases of personal honesty and self awareness around.

You really OWN a lot of your situation but did not give up on it either. I so admire that. What grace and dignity you've shown!

Most LBSers change their "commitment to work on themselves" approach the minute they hear of OPs.

Suddenly the LBSer only recalls that the "marriage was pretty good UNTIL EVIL OW", and it's sometimes just a lie.

But many tell themselves that, and the "affair" becomes their sole focus. YOU did not do that, and you still don't and

I applaud that candor and constant self monitoring. You kept the focus on your own personal work. Amazing.

With that in mind, I do have a slightly different opinion on the legal matter or maybe it's the same as you have.

I like/prefer the state formula, Here's why and I swear it's why. (no revenge motive and not even stalling as a motive, truly, b/c I want you to move on too, if that's what this "time" is)

While yes you did earn a good income b/c you worked the WHOLE MARRIAGE WHILE HAVING 3 KIDS IN 4 YEARS, ( )

you realize now how obviously bad that choice was and you don't wish to repeat it any sooner than necessary. It was far too demanding on you, and the kids AND the marriage AND you, paid a price for that mistake.


I'm a little annoyed that 1) he doesn't see the mistake/damage of the chaos, as being what caused the bulk of the problems you felt, (yes I know, you expressed your feelings poorly. We know. We get it.

But you were in a Sherpa lifestyle that's crazy hard, to be fair.

b/c your life style and expectation of having 3 kids in four years

WHILE working long hours

at a stressful job and

being "HAPPILY MARRIED" was...INSANE...

I know, b/c I got sucked into that for awhile too.

So get the money it'll take to stay at home as long as you can, and get some alimony.

Why be punished for the slave like years you busted your butt

AND had his kids? If you never worked you get more money and so he's essentially penalizing you for working during all that time.

I know it sounds angry but I promise you it's not. At least not mostly.

It's FOR the kids so they are not constantly adjusting to your work schedule or his or OWs - And so they have ONE parent consistently around and so they don't have the chaos of before.

keep it simple for now.

Hire a L and see if a collaborative approach can work

WITH YOU going for the typical formula w/you getting alimony so you can have more time with the kids.

(Remind me to ask what your job is too, b/c I can't find one that pays well and doesn't require heinous hours)

But to me, this is NOT about stalling or controlling.

That's you getting what your kids deserve without breaking the bank to do it, and without appearing controlling. it really is what is best for the kids at this time, imo.

Have you felt ANY interest in dating? Just curious as to how you'll approach a r with someone new.


((( )))

[bustingout]

Hi KG,

I was looking for your thread after reading your post on the infideility thread. I am glad you are back. Yes I can imagine a break is sometimes needed, but the support is indeed a lifeline.

I feel very connected to you and your sitch for some reason.

I am no expert or vet or anything, but you say that H left over a year ago? Would that be shortly after the birth of your S? I don't know...younsaid that you didn't think he was going through any doubt, confusion, selfishness, etc...yet IMHO, leaving shortly after the birth of a child seems selfish and confused. Maybe the reality of what was happening in his M, being a family, father, financial responsibility, etc....scared him?....

Because when I read your sitch I got the feeling that you have put a lot of blame on yourself. And that is not fair.

He says because of OW your R with him is better? BS. Your R with him is better because of you. Because of all the hard work you are doing for your family.

Imagine what kind of woman OW would be in his eyes if she did not encourage him to be friendly and amicable with you and the kids. Come on. ( sorry that hit a raw spot for me because my H's OW also said 'oh you should give your M another chance..I would never want to be the cause of your split...blah blah, and also how she support him to give 100percent to his children....)

It seems if you don't want the D then you should not help facilitate it. But again, better to get answers from those with more experience.

I am with you KG and am glad you are back. You are stronger than you think, a wonderful woman and mother.

Take care, busting (((( )))

[Rick1963]

Glad to see you back KG. You have made many changes and grown alot. Very proud of you. Keep it up

[adinva]

Hi KG. I'm wrestling with some of the same issues you are. I have told my H I don't agree but accept his decision. I had told him I wasn't going to help with it, and I didn't help initially, just waited, and he wasn't getting much done fast.

I've looked into contested divorce (ie handled in court), mediation, collaboration, and now feel cooperative divorce makes the most sense for us. We have no friction on child issues and that's big. The money we save goes right back in our pockets. Although I don't want the divorce, contesting it won't make any difference since he has grounds, having been separated from me for over a year.

If you disagree about money and kids, and you're not being unrealistic about what the courts would agree to, and you're willing to spend a lot of money to get more than H is offering, then you might need to go the court route. If you do collaborative divorce and aren't able to reach agreement, that money is down the drain and you go to court anyway. You should get legal advice about your options and what is the best choice in your situation.

Think hard about whether the things you're fighting on are best for the kids. Perhaps it might be worthwhile to take your sticking points and discuss them with H and a third party to "referee" such as your MC if you have one. See how close you can get to agreement before you start paying lawyers to reach agreement.

Wish I could help you more KG but I definitely feel for you. This is so hard.

I think every day that there's a chance my sitch will turn around, even though there is no evidence to suggest it. If it is going to happen, you need to protect your kids and yourself by getting counsel and good advice.