Piecing - Round 1

[Sad_but_happy]

"And regarding the EA....I just told him that as far as I was concerned, he could end it anyway he wanted, as long as it does end. Then I let go...almost anyways....I still do get anzious every now and then, I am human after all, but am able to consciously get over it.


You are missing a word...


"And regarding the EA....I just told him that as far as I was concerned, he could end it anyway he wanted, as long as it does end NOW."


HARD LINE APPROACH!!!

[Denver_2010]

This 'hard line' vs. 'soft line' is a pretty common debate here on these boards. I don't think that either of you are completely right or completely wrong. My opinion is that it takes a combination of both. Each approach has to be used, and at the proper times, in almost every situation that I've seen or read about.

"SBH,I dont get that. Hard line aproach and respect? They dont mix."

Of course they do...

Respect: I WILL NOT TOLLERATE YOU CHEATING ON ME BY CONTINUING TO SEE OM.

Hard line approach: OR I WILL LEAVE!!!

They mix perfectly!!!

I don't think that this approach is bad, but I don't think that it is the right approach for EVERY situation. For example, it simply was not possible in my situation at the beginning. I needed to change, for me, and I needed my W to have a period of time to see that was happening. But yes, eventually, I had to shift gears. Basic Plan A/Plan B stuff.

I also prefer to call this 'having boundaries' as opposed to the hard line approach. That's really all that it is. I will also add that because each situation is different, as mine was, the consequence of violation of a boundary does not necessarily have to be 'I will divorce you'. It can simply be, 'I won't be a part of your life'. There is a difference. One provides for the opportunity for forgiveness, for healing, for individual, and dual, growth, and for the M to still be saved. While the other is the nail in the coffin.

But again, every person is different, every marriage is different, and the dynamics of every situation on this board are different. Some people reach the point of being DONE more quickly than others. There is NOTHING wrong with that at all. Like SBH said, DB is about doing what works for US, not the WAS. Sometimes it results in the marriage being saved, but more often, it results in the person being saved.

"If she didn't realize, then maybe you did not make it knows. As they said, nothing wrong in feelings.

10 Years of MC and she went thru 6 theripists cause none agreed with her. Trust me, I made in known by email, discussion, in counseling, poem, card, notes, and carrier pigion. She knew!

"SBH, I remember you and your exs W were reading the 5 LL's before ....did that not make an impact on you?"

She was incapable of providing even the most basic of needs. I'd ask for a hug. Said let's start with once a month. She couldn't. Deep intimacy issues. Again, Borderliner Personality Disorder... Whole different ball game.

I apologize SBH if I am not remembering correctly, but I don't remember you talking about your W in this way at all back when you were posting regularly. Of course, I was pretty wrapped up in my own situation at the time, and I was following multiple people at the time. It was also a while back, so my memory may just be fading.

In any case, it definitely sounds like your W has some serious work to do before she is going to find happiness in a marriage with anyone. I don't blame you for finally throwing your hands up if what you say is accurate. We cannot be happy without true, loving, companionship. And a spouse should care about the other's happiness... not be made to be the sole provider of happiness... but to care and do their best to promote that. IMO, anyway.

It sounds to me like you actually became the WAS here SBH. Maybe had your W found DR and this board, and actually educated herself on the things that we have all educated ourselves on, she could have kept you from walking away. Who knows? Unfortunately, I think this is why so many marriages end in divorce. One or both spouses don't want to take the time, do the work, to educate themselves on what it actually takes to be married.

[Denver_2010]

Denver, I've been around since the BITS days, and used to post to Bolt (wonder what happened to him) and actually, to SBH as well. I followed your sitch although I've been rather quiet. I tended to read a lot of sitches, analyze and digest in an effort to find parallel situations to mine and understand them.

I was being reactionary to what they (SBH and Starsky) said; I now realize your are strong and won't easily be swayed. However, I just was concerned because sometimes, piecing is the time when the former LBS suddenly just finds themselves in a position where all the past sins of the WAS comes back, making forgiveness a huge issue, or bringing back issues of mistrust and turning the whole thing into a tit-for-tat matter.And we have risen above that, I believe.

Thanks for understanding my concern....I know the tough love approach may work sometimes, in other sitches, I just didnt feel it would work for you.

It wouldn't work for mine, but all I could say at this point is that in my case, I did it my way, mindful of all that I have learned from many people. Starsky and SBH, I did learn a lot from you too, but not the tough love part....it did help me see into certain male perspectives.

For me, Cyrena, and 25 years mlc gave the most useful advice, and till now, I always think of what they have written.

I vaguely remember you Angel. There are so many monikers with 'Angel' in them though that I don't remember your sitch specifically. And it's been a while.

Bolt is doing well. Didn't save his M, but is in a new R and seems very happy. I still talk to him every couple of months or so.

Like I said in an above post, I think that it takes a combination of a 'hard line' and 'soft' approach. I got so much good advice during the hard days of my sitch. I credit vets on both sides of the debate, Starsky, J3B, Truegritter, 25MLC, Mach, Cat, 2stepboogie, and many others than I am failing to mention at the moment. Point is, there is great information to get from so many different perspectives, so many similar experiences. That's what makes this board so wonderful.

I'm happy to hear that you are in piecing Angel! It doesn't matter how you got there. What matters is that you are there and that both you and your H are committed to, and working at, your M. Not many of us from our group made it that far. But most are now finding happiness either way. THAT is what this board is all about!

[Sad_but_happy]

"I don't think that this approach is bad, but I don't think that it is the right approach for EVERY situation. For example, it simply was not possible in my situation at the beginning. I needed to change, for me, and I needed my W to have a period of time to see that was happening. But yes, eventually, I had to shift gears. Basic Plan A/Plan B stuff."


Couldn't agree more...



"I apologize SBH if I am not remembering correctly, but I don't remember you talking about your W in this way at all back when you were posting regularly. Of course, I was pretty wrapped up in my own situation at the time, and I was following multiple people at the time. It was also a while back, so my memory may just be fading."


I really never spoke of this Denver. Mostly because her illness drove me away. And it was my neglect of her that caused her to look elsewhere. I definitely accept blame too.



"It sounds to me like you actually became the WAS here SBH. Maybe had your W found DR and this board, and actually educated herself on the things that we have all educated ourselves on, she could have kept you from walking away. Who knows? Unfortunately, I think this is why so many marriages end in divorce. One or both spouses don't want to take the time, do the work, to educate themselves on what it actually takes to be married."


Great observation. Very true. All of it!!!

[figgeroni]

Denver...
Co-parenting is one of the toughest things EVER

I want Cori to co-parent with me but I don't want him to too

like

I want him to help dscipline but NOBODY yells at my babies

it's like a no win situation

I have had to learn to give up a lot of control....very hard for me

there are lots of resources out there for the defiant child

one really great class is called Love and Logic...they have some really great stuff. Sometimes it gets a little lovey for this mom but it truly does work (watched it happened with my own eyes)

[Denver_2010]

Denver...
Co-parenting is one of the toughest things EVER

I want Cori to co-parent with me but I don't want him to too

like

I want him to help dscipline but NOBODY yells at my babies

it's like a no win situation

I have had to learn to give up a lot of control....very hard for me

there are lots of resources out there for the defiant child

one really great class is called Love and Logic...they have some really great stuff. Sometimes it gets a little lovey for this mom but it truly does work (watched it happened with my own eyes)

HA! You sound like my W. She wants me to co-parent... but then doesn't.

You're right, co-parenting is one of the most difficult things that I've tried to do. I think that it is especially difficult doing it as a step parent. My W wants me to be involved with SS... his school, his discipline, the fun stuff... but won't consider the tougher approach that I believe is appropriate at times. The bottom line is that he is her son, not mine. At times, it feels like it isn't fair and causes me to feel like throwing my hands up and giving up on the idea.... let her deal with it.

I have definitely heard of Love and Logic. I believe that my mother in law suggested to my W for SS. I think that's where she gets the touchy feely approach to discipline ... I just grew up differently. Sometimes it is hard to accept that my way isn't the only way.

Thanks for the advice Fig.

Denver

[angel61]

Glad to hear that Bolt is happy again. I wonder how his kids are doing. He was one of the more intense ones.

YOu're very open minded, Denver. For me, thats the way to go. There are many paths for us to follow, and one of the nice things about this forums, and the internet, is that it opens up the way for us to learn about them all.

Yes, not too many of us made it here.

Glad you're here too!

[Denver_2010]

His children are doing really well from what I understand Angel. Yes... Bolt is very intense! Good guy.

[figgeroni]

oh love and logic is not all touchy feeling

it's about natural consequences

like

instead of yelling at Nick (my son) for constantly forgetting his homework, i tell him the natural consequence for forgetting his homework is an F and an F means grounding for a week and grounding for a week means GROUNDING....

I lay it out for him...we go over it...I remind him once and then I let him do what he does

I just follow through with the consequences (which is the tough part for me...the keeping to the follow through because I want to just give in...it's easier to give in)

but

it works....

after a couple of times of strick follow through (and when he whines about losing his privelidges I remind him without shaming the steps of the follow through...very nonchalantly) then he understands and there are no more fights about it

he understand that coming home late means GROUNDING

he weighs his consequence and makes a decision

less fighting at the house for sure

he still makes decisions I don't like but...they are HIS to make...it's that giving up of control

sometimes, he has told me, the grounding is worth the extra half an hour he needed to work things out with his girlfriend or he has decided to come home instead of finishing something because he knows that he will be grounded...no questions so he just comes home instead of trying to weedle out of it

[Denver_2010]

I might be thinking of something different then. I will google love and logic and check it out. Thanks Fig!