Piecing - Round 1

[Sad_but_happy]

I am doing well Denver. Very well actually.

For me, the grass truly is greener where I am now. I am very happy. And the women I've met have been amazing. But admitedly, other factors are involved. My XW suffers from depression, low self esteem, and borderline personality disorder. So life for me... Has not been so easy.

I am not jaded. I believe in marriage and its wonderful benefits. And I will be married again... I'm figuring 75 years old is a reasonable age. One shouldn't get married too young...

[Starsky309]

Keep it up, Denver, and don't let other people push you off the path.

Angel, however you feel about the "tougher approach" being advocated by me and SBH and some others, I find the above insulting. No one is trying to "push Denver off his path." We are trying to provide an outside perspective, and perhaps be a "canary in a coal mine" if our own experience can help him avoid a potential pitfall.

As always, he is free to either use or reject the advice, as he sees fit.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

I realized that I had to rediscover myself and my H and sometimes, work on blind faith that things will right itself.

Most people that come here are looking for concrete steps that they can take -- a PLAN -- to give them the best shot to recover their marriages. I suspect if we advised that they have "blind faith" they wouldn't get much value out of the forum.

Angel, the fact remains that you don't know what may have happened if you had let your husband know that IF he wanted to be a part of your life, that you needed full transparency (and perhaps two or three other boundaries that you might have tried to lay out and enforce). NONE of us will ever know what may have happened if we took either the stronger or the softer approaches in our sitches.

If "a" works, it doesn't necessarily follow the "b" wouldn't have. Perhaps "b" may have ALSO worked, and gotten you there much sooner (Denver himself wonders this sometimes). Or, maybe it would have backfired horribly. That's what DBing is all about -- "doing what works."

If you think transparency is about "control," then you don't understand the basic difference between "boundaries" and "ultimatums." Boundaries are for US -- they are what WE cannot abide, if our spouses want to remain in our circle. If you CAN abide those things (or perhaps tolerate them for a certain period of time, with no corresponding erosion of your emotional health), then great -- those weren't really dealbreakers for you.

We should only try to enforce those CORE things that are essential to our own integrity, and even then, all we can tell our spouses is "Hey, you do what you feel you need to do, but THIS is what I need from a spouse."


Starsky

[Denver_2010]

Keep it up, Denver, and don't let other people push you off the path.

Angel, however you feel about the "tougher approach" being advocated by me and SBH and some others, I find the above insulting. No one is trying to "push Denver off his path." We are trying to provide an outside perspective, and perhaps be a "canary in a coal mine" if our own experience can help him avoid a potential pitfall.

As always, he is free to either use or reject the advice, as he sees fit.


Starsky

First... LOL SBH! yeah, that's the attitude that I would have had too had mine ended in D. Although I was thinking more like 80!

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FTR, I did not feel pressured by any of this talk. I actually never feel a bit of pressure to do something differently these days. I am in a much stronger place, much more comfortable with DB concepts, and very comfortable with the path that I am on. I don't think that I am susceptible at all to being swayed off that path.

HOWEVER, I do think that Angel's words have some relevancy here on these boards. Nothing to do with you Starsky, or you SBH... at least not these days

But as newcomers, I do think that we can feel pressure from those who give us advice. We come here so unsure of ourselves, what we are doing, and why we are doing it... we don't know what our lives will look like from one hour to the next. Our ability to make our own decisions is severely diminished in many cases.

I THINK that Angel telling me not to be swayed from my path was a mere expression of her concern that I might still be in that place somewhat? She has never posted on my threads before, at least not that I can think of. So I'm guessing that she is not that familiar with me or where I am emotionally these days. I'm assuming that she just meant in general Starsky.

As always, I personally appreciate the outside perspective... The canary in the coal mine (had never heard THAT one before!).

[Denver_2010]

Perhaps "b" may have ALSO worked, and gotten you there much sooner (Denver himself wonders this sometimes).

True dat! ^^

[angel61]

Denver, I've been around since the BITS days, and used to post to Bolt (wonder what happened to him) and actually, to SBH as well. I followed your sitch although I've been rather quiet. I tended to read a lot of sitches, analyze and digest in an effort to find parallel situations to mine and understand them.

I was being reactionary to what they (SBH and Starsky) said; I now realize your are strong and won't easily be swayed. However, I just was concerned because sometimes, piecing is the time when the former LBS suddenly just finds themselves in a position where all the past sins of the WAS comes back, making forgiveness a huge issue, or bringing back issues of mistrust and turning the whole thing into a tit-for-tat matter.And we have risen above that, I believe.

Thanks for understanding my concern....I know the tough love approach may work sometimes, in other sitches, I just didnt feel it would work for you.

It wouldn't work for mine, but all I could say at this point is that in my case, I did it my way, mindful of all that I have learned from many people. Starsky and SBH, I did learn a lot from you too, but not the tough love part....it did help me see into certain male perspectives.

For me, Cyrena, and 25 years mlc gave the most useful advice, and till now, I always think of what they have written.

[Sad_but_happy]

We all have advice to offer. DB'ing is like parenting. There is no book... Actually, there is... Lol

But the essence of DB is do whats best for your sitch and for your health, happiness and wellbeing.

My approach worked for me. Within a few weeks actually. I detached almost right away. Gave boundaries (not ultimatums). And she came back. I mean let's be honest... How could she not? Lol.

The problem was that she didn't realize what I needed in the moment. At any moment really. She didn't know the depths of my sadness. And over time, that sadness turned to resentment. And so it was doomed to fail.

My hard line approach speaks to respect. Not anger or hurt or sadness. Respect!!!

It's not a matter of no one will cheating on me. We all know we have no control over that.

It's a matter of not allowing myself to be disrespected by allowing someone to cheat on me... Ever...


Hey Starsky... I live in Illinois too... Moved here 6 years ago from Boston.


Peace all...

[angel61]

SBH,I dont get that. Hard line aproach and respect? They dont mix.

If she didn't realize, then maybe you did not make it knows. As they said, nothing wrong in feelings.

But one things is that: nobody has an obligation to make someone else happy. That is too much.

If my H would say that the only way he would be happy is if I made him so, I would lose some of my respect for him. Thats too much of a burden for me. If being myself made him sad, then I cant live with that.

Actually thats what happened to us before. He had tried to make me happy in his way, but I never saw it, and demanded something different. He felt he could never make me happy, and he withdrew, and later got into an EA.

Now we have completely changed .... i dont ask for him tospeak my LL, and neither does he expect me to speak his LL, but we recognize each others LL and acknowledge that its our way of showing love to each other. I am physical, he loves to serve....and I appreciate his way, he appreciates mine.

And regarding the EA....I just told him that as far as I was concerned, he could end it anyway he wanted, as long as it does end. Then I let go...almost anyways....I still do get anzious every now and then, I am human after all, but am able to consciously get over it.


SBH, I remember you and your exs W were reading the 5 LL's before ....did that not make an impact on you?

[Sad_but_happy]

"SBH,I dont get that. Hard line aproach and respect? They dont mix."

Of course they do...

Respect: I WILL NOT TOLLERATE YOU CHEATING ON ME BY CONTINUING TO SEE OM.

Hard line approach: OR I WILL LEAVE!!!

They mix perfectly!!!




"If she didn't realize, then maybe you did not make it knows. As they said, nothing wrong in feelings.

10 Years of MC and she went thru 6 theripists cause none agreed with her. Trust me, I made in known by email, discussion, in counseling, poem, card, notes, and carrier pigion. She knew!




"But one things is that: nobody has an obligation to make someone else happy. That is too much."

No one even remotely stated this. Not even sure where you got this. I agree.




"SBH, I remember you and your exs W were reading the 5 LL's before ....did that not make an impact on you?"

She was incapable of providing even the most basic of needs. I'd ask for a hug. Said let's start with once a month. She couldn't. Deep intimacy issues. Again, Borderliner Personality Disorder... Whole different ball game.

[Sad_but_happy]

"Now we have completely changed .... i dont ask for him tospeak my LL, and neither does he expect me to speak his LL, but we recognize each others LL and acknowledge that its our way of showing love to each other. I am physical, he loves to serve....and I appreciate his way, he appreciates mine."


THIS makes no sense Angel. You are supposed to show love the way your partner needs it. Otherwise they don't feel loved. That is the very essence of a LL.

What you are doing paving the way for loneliness. It's the reason you drifted away in the first place. You showed him love based on your LL. He showed you love based on his LL.


If this is what you are saying, you will be back here in less then 5 years.