Time for LBH to move home? WAW can do the walking.

[Truegritter]

So now what?

I hear a lot of what you think she will do or what you think she wants

Your sucess is bounded by these predictions.

[AlwaysTrying]

So now what?

I don't know. I sense there is some opportunity here. I feel something going on that wasn't happening during our months of stalemate.

She's talking to me more - she is exposing more of herself and the feelings behind her actions. She is upset that I'm back in the house, but there is more communication. I'm really unsure of what exactly to do, but I think that focusing on my own needs and what I think *I* need to do may having positive effects.

My wife could have been apart for 2 years, but without getting in some contact prompting her to open up about her anger, I would have never known what the problem was.

Her instinct is to run away from her problems and never deal with them. Maybe pushing her out of her comfort zone was a good thing.

I always suspected it might be.

If I have made some gains by doing something against her wishes, the difficult part will be keeping the momentum and not building resentment.

I was surprised how often she has actually sought out contact with me over the last two days.

I'm going to try not to blow this.

[AlwaysTrying]

So, I think I need to address "I don't think I'll ever forgive you. I don't have to.", and in a more general way address the idea that she waits around in a sort of half-hope that her feelings will change without engaging me in some way.

And I guess that is sort-of against LRT. The other thing I want most is for her to push back or put the divorce on hold. I accept now that even if we decide to try to work things out again, maybe she needs to move out and find her own place, even if that means kids now have two bedrooms and all the other bad stuff about divorce that I wanted to avoid.

I told her earlier this week that I want another chance for our marriage/separation to work out. We tried it my way and it didn't work out, so let's try her way. I said you can't blame me for trying to take an approach that would be a lot less disruptive for everyone.

I want to ask her if she'll come to counseling next Friday to talk about her feelings about what she told me Monday in counseling. We have divorce court the same day, so I don't know how realistic that is.


I feel like I'm in a strange place because I'm pretty sure it's more important than ever for me to LRT, but I feel like some communication is happening and I need to let it happen.

Trying to remember:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
and
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

I feel comfortable now that my world won't end if I have to go to court Friday without my lawyer and I can't pay the mortgage and my wife moves out and takes half the furniture and my favorite cooking knives.

Right now, she is coming to me, she is opening up a little, even if it is just to express anger, but then she is actually being pretty nice to me in general. I think I'm in a good place emotionally to really hang back for a while and not let her actions affect my mood.

I think what I can say to her at some point this weekend is something like "Whether or not we are going to get divorced, I would like to improve our relationship." and encourage her to join me at a future counseling session.

[sandi2]

How are you doing?

[AlwaysTrying]

Hi, sandi. Thanks for asking. I'm OK.

I've been happier living at home than living in the apartment. I've been seeing so much more of the kids and it feels great. Many of my interactions with my wife are still negative, but for the most part they are not.

We don't ignore each other at the breakfast table, for instance. She made me a cake for my birthday, and it was delicious. I turned 35 yesterday.

The day before that was our first court date. The lawyers spoke to each other in a conference room with a referee while W and I made small talk. The kids will be getting their own lawyer assigned (law guardian). W wants to move out to her own apartment, but won't go until custody is settled.

That means that I have a few months (I think) to change our relationship for the better while she is still in the house.

She has been coming to counseling. Week before last, we talked about her feelings about my allowing Dead back into our lives. "I don't think I'll ever forgive you. I don't have to."

Friday, she came to another session, even though it was only a few hours after our court appearance. We talked about it a little more. I tried to make it clear that I was sorry (that I let him back in, that I had made her feel the way she did.) and that I really wish I had understood her better during that time. My perception of that time was shaped by hearing Dead's account of events, and not hearing hers and assuming things were different than she remembered them. I told her that I need her to express her feelings more directly more of the time.

I have a lot of regret over this.

Our session was really more conventional therapy and not really solution-based. If MWD were there herself, I'm not sure she could come up with behaviors I can change that demonstrate that I would never repeat this kind of mistake. I don't know. I like my therapist. I think it was a good session and I'm pretty sure W will come to the next one again. I think I can keep the next one a little more solution-oriented.

My laywer told me that her lawyer told her that W is miserable in the marriage and in the home, that I'm moody, and that no one in the home is allowed to have their own identity.

That sounds like behavior that can be changed in a very short term. W said that those were not her words, and that she's never articulated it like that, but that she agrees with it. I'm not sure why her lawyer would describe things that way if W didn't describe it to him like that first.

I'm skeptical of the label "moody". My W left the C session a little early to pick up the kids, so it was just me and the C who has actually been my IC for a little over a year now. I told her I felt like I didn't feel like I was in a struggle with my W as much as I am in a struggle against Shadow AlwaysTrying - the ghost of the guy I was. Shadow AT is moody, not me. C said that she has seen huge changes in me over the last year and she is encouraged that W will come to see them as well.

Next counseling session, I'm going to ask W to articulate what might be meant by no one being allowed to have their own identity. That is going to boil down to a set of behaviors from my past and it should be easy to find ways to show her that I'm conscious of the issues (if she can define them and point them out) and changing the behavior.


I'm thinking about doing something to make amends for the way I hurt my W. I supported someone who violated her, and was a little too eager to accept his version of events. I feel like a hypocrite for reflexively cutting him out of my life for good for even thinking of crossing that line with my daughter, when I was willing to forgive him for what he did to the honest-to-goodness Love of My Life, when she still described it as rape.

I should never have put pressure on her to mend things with him. I feel ashamed. She pointed out in our last session how this came to pass. When I broke down with my first bout of major depression after our son was born, I was out of work and needed a job - Dead came along at just that moment with work I needed. W said she sold out. She didn't want me being around Dead, but she knew we needed the money so she compromised. She and I both feel pretty lousy about that.

Well, I may never really be able to make it up to her. So I was thinking I might find a way to pay it forward instead. I want to see if there is some way I can donate time to support women who have been abused in some sort of way.

I have no idea what it is that I can do. Maybe volunteer to help with a fund drive or something. I'm not sure even what organization to go to for this.

[AlwaysTrying]

A very bloggy post. I'm trying to process through our latest arguments:

We fought a little bit last night. W was having a hard time putting the kids to bed. They were unruly and there was some yelling and, after D3 slapped her in the eye, a lot of anger. I was catching up on some work downstairs. Kids wouldn't cooperate, so story time was cancelled. W told the kids get into bed or else, basically, and was standing outside their door fuming. I quietly came upstairs to lend my support.

W started lashing out because she assumed that I would have to be writing recording this bad parenting moment to convince the court that she was an unfit parent. W said my lawyer is lying to me if she says the court will likely grant 50/50 custody without my going out of my way to discredit my W as a parent.

W was really hostile. We had planned to clean up the house together after she put the kids to bed, but it didn't seem like it was a good idea to be around each other. When she came downstairs, I told her I was going out for a walk. I ended up going to the corner store and buying her favorite candy bar and some iced tea. I put them on the dining room table when I got home as a peace offering and went upstairs to clean my room instead.

After 20 minutes or so, I came back downstairs and started to help cleaning up. She warmed up and she sat down on the couch so we could talk.
At first we were talking about D16's permit. I want her to be allowed to get one, but W doesn't think she's ready.

Things morphed into R talk. We talked about a lot of things, and some of it gave me hope that things can improve. But she also said that she is angry and getting angrier all the time because I want to fight her over the kids. I deflected, but not really expertly. She would say things like, "Why are you putting the kids through this. Think about what is best for them." All I had to do was look at her and she knew I felt the exact same way about her.

When she wants to hurt me, she'll come up with some version of "and that's how I know I don't want to be with you". It's usually something I did or said. It's almost as if she wants to punish me for something I've done in the past and deny that I can be any different now. In this case, she said that when she filed, I responded by saying please give me one week to show you that I have changed. She said that made it obvious to her that I had no clue and leaving me was the only thing that made sense.

I told her that when I said that, I was bargaining. I was shocked and looking for a way to save the marriage. I told her I knew that it would take longer than a week to make the changes that were important to her and to prove that they were not just temparary, but I believed then and still do now that I can demonstrate understanding and change every week if she is willing to be part of the process.

She acknowledged that there has been a lot of change but there is still a long way to go. I told her that she doesn't really know me any more and things may be more different than she realizes. I also told her that I'm really glad she is coming to counseling because many of the changes she is waiting for that have not happened yet are because she isn't communicating to me about them.

I felt a lot of positive exchange happened in the conversation, but she got agitated at some point and said something like it is pointless to talk to me. Oh, I remember. I said something about her anger. I don't even remember what. She took it to be invalidating - that I was saying that she needed to just let go of her anger so we could move on. Then she said that no one should ever have to live with me and stormed off to her room.

I thought about our conversation for about 20 minutes and then called her on her cell phone. I told her that acknowledging her anger doesn't mean that I don't think her feeligns are real and that I never want her to push her feelings down or pretend they don't exist again. I wish I had written this down yesterday when it was fresh in my mind.

She appologized for saying no one should have to live with me. She said that she didn't think the kids shouldn't live with me, only that she thought that she shouldn't have to live with me.

I don't think I'll get her back to C until 6/22. She hasn't given me the gift of time. I've stolen it. I want to make the best use of it I can. Our next court date is 7/11, I believe, but the law guardian will be talking to us and to the kids sooner than that.

[AlwaysTrying]

Rules I probably broke:
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

I did by her a favorite treat as a peace-making gesture. It wasn't to make brownie points, but to show that I do care about her.

I didn't exactly violate rule 1, but when she sat down to talk with me, I did make an effort to have some constructive conversation. I didn't plead or beg or chase, but I did acknowledge that I am trying to improve our relationship. And I did try to explain some of my past behavior, describe some of the things I've been through over the last year or so, assert that I really have been committed to real change, and express my uncertainty about how much headway I can make in her perception of me without some input on her part.

I don't think I pushed, but I did try to make some points and I could have done well to get her to open up more by talking a little less.

I did good on this one, though:

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

Several times she tried to bait me Sunday. I never bit.


I think I really need to work on this more:
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

We end up talking a lot about what I might have done differently or how I have to change. I'm going to keep rule 31 top of mind over the next week and see how things can be different by talking about her.

[AlwaysTrying]

My d16's birthday is today. We gave her gifts yesterday, though.

D16 asked W a few weeks ago if she could have the ring I gave W when we started dating after W dies. W wrapped it up and gave it to her as a birthday present, which bummed us both out. D16 cried when she opened it. In front of all of our guests.

It pretty much ruined my evening.

[MrBond]

How did your W react after that happened?

[AlwaysTrying]

W responded in typical WAW fashion, I think. detached. Like she had no idea this would upset either of us.

I'm still muddling through this. Living in the house, W and I are seeing a little more of each other and there is sometimes conflict - intense conflict, but there is also movement.

I think we may be occasionally making steps in the right direction. I don't know. She's coming to counseling Friday.