My Story So Far. Is this even worth saving?

[timbits]

Well, I feel like I've been on a roller coaster the last few months. I knew something was wrong about 6 months ago. H became friends with OW professionally (they are both writers) and they were spending a lot of time together. I was uncomfortable with this, but figured that I could trust H.

The in October, I woke up and got ready to go to work. I left my own laptop upstairs in the bedroom and decided to check my email on his laptop, which was downstairs where I was. Honestly, I wasn't snooping. I went to gmail and his account was there and an email from her was opened. In it, they were discussing a past relationship that he had with another woman. We have been together since I've been 16. We broke up for about 3 weeks at one point and apparently he dated another woman once. I knew he wrote a short story about having to say goodbye to another woman who was moving away, but he said it wasn't inspired about anything in particular. I believed him. In this email with OW, she was saying how sad she was for him (roll eyes here...) that he missed out on his one true love. At this point, I lost it. I went upstairs and got really upset with him. This is not something that is appropriate to discuss with another woman, especially when you haven't even discussed it with your own W. He agreed, apologized and said that it was all a misunderstanding.


We did have a bit of an issue when I insisted that I meet OW before he spends time with her (they were mostly emailing only at this point). It ended up being a big argument because he felt I didn't trust him, blah blah blah. But, bottom line was that he agreed to allow me to meet her.

I ended up meeting her in November briefly. We both attended the Christmas Parade in our city and she was there with her husband and kids. She seemed nice. We only spoke for a few minutes.

Things started to get worse. H was pulling away from me. Every night he would email her for hours, with his headphones on. He wouldn't talk to me, wouldn't touch me. Another bit of backstory, I have problems with being intimate. I was molested growing up and, while I'm much better than I was after a few years of IC, I still have issues with it. I know this is hard for H, but he never initiated it. I work a lot of hours, travelling a bit and am exhausted when I get home. H is out of work, has been for 4 years, and I resent it a little.

He wouldn't even touch me when we got into bed. I felt like he was disgusted by me. H started working out and changed his diet in September of last year. He's lost over 100 pounds and looks really good. Well, I tend to eat more when stressed and have gained weight. I also have health issues. One of my lasting issues from the abuse I suffered was that I don't take care of myself.

Basically, he started to have panic attacks. He does have anxiety, but never really had problems with panic attacks. I couldn't figure it out. I was travelling, about 4 hours away from home. He decided to drive out to meet me. I knew something was really wrong at this point. He's never joined me before, had no interest in coming. I knew something was wrong.

He dropped a bombshell on me. OW's H found an email he wrote and she cut off contact with H. I was like, "What else happened?" He promised me that nothing else happened. He swore nothing else happened. He said that he was worried that he ruined OW's marriage (nevermind about ours) and that she and her 3 kids would be on the street. I got him to calm down (screwed up, but whatever), told him that she had to fix her own M and we had to fix ours. I told him I knew he was having an EA and that I felt like he was getting ready to leave me for about 6 months at this point. He was shocked, said he'd never leave me and that his EA was over with her.

I believed him. He was still having panic attacks. I got the feeling he was more upset about losing his little girlfriend than he was with almost destroying his marriage. I told him I wanted to go to MC. He agreed and I made an appointment through my Employee Assistance Program. While waiting for the appointment, we ended up going out to a movie with friends, like we always do on Thursday evenings (the local university rents out a theater and plays art/foreign films that we wouldn't normally get). We met up with a mutual friend and watched the movie. We had taken seperate vehicles as I was commuting about 45 minutes away (this is my last trip as I've been promoted) for 2 weeks and we met there. After the movie, we drove friend home in my vehicle and then parked in the lot next to the other vehicle. I said I didn't understand what was going on, why he was so panicky? He finally admitted to me that he and OW had still been emailling each other and that they both decided that after everything cooled down, they would just be friends. How touching.

I lost it at this point and kicked him out for the evening. I just couldn't believe he'd do this. I didn't have anyone to discuss this with, so I broke down and called my sister and told her what was going on. I didn't want to tell any of my family, but I trust my S to keep it private. She went through a similar situation with her H (he had an EA with a coworker) and she talked me through it.

I felt awful. I couldn't sleep. I was crying so hard that I looked AWFUL when I went to work the next day. I called H and told him to come home. I had actually planned on emailling the OW and telling her I knew about it. H gave her the phone number to my parents' home (we were housesitting at the time) and I didn't want her to call there again. We ended up having our MC session, I told him I didn't want him to talk to her again EVER and he agreed. The first MC session went well. We acknowledged that I had a right to be angry and discussed our intentions. He admitted that he was "confused" about what he felt with her and that something more than friendship developed between them.

Then, three days later, I was in bed at my parents' home, still house/cat sitting, when the phone rings at 10pm. This woke me up as it was late and I grabbed the phone and saw her number on the caller ID. I picked up, H said he had it. I hung up, flew out of bed and went into the livingroom where H was telling her "ok, ok, fine" and he hung up. Again, I lost it. I told him that I didn't want her calling again. I told him that I wanted to put a block on our emails so that hers went into the trash without being read. I grabbed his laptop and was about to add the filter when a voice in the back of my head told me to check the trash.

There was another email going back and forth between them. She told him that she missed him, that they would still be friends and writing partners and then he wrote back he was happy about it. Then she wrote back saying she never wanted to speak to him again, never contact her, he was evil (?? really? she participated in the EA, too) and that she had to fix her own marriage. Again, I lost it. I told him that he betrayed me. That I couldn't trust him at all. That I didn't know if I wanted to remain married to someone I couldn't trust. He slept on the couch that night. I ended up writing a calm but firm email to OW that she is NEVER to call that number again, it was disrespectful to me, and that if she really wanted to fix her marriage, as well as not destroy mine, then to never contact either of us again. I decided to not send it that night. The MC advised that it was my choice if I wanted to send an email and that if I did, to write it one day, but wait until I cooled off to see if I still wanted to send it.

This is loooonnnng, and I'm exhausted. I'll have to write the rest in another post.
Thank you for reading so far (that is if you are still reading....)

[CallieIsSpooky]

I'm new here, and don't know anything about the Divorce Busting program yet. But I wanted to offer hugs. I'm really sorry your husband is so dishonest with you about his EA. I do remember reading somewhere that giving up an EA is really hard on people, and that it often takes time and patience for the split to happen. So I suppose that is where you have to decide if you can be that patient. I don't know what I would do if it were me. It's not my husband's style to develop feelings for anyone, let alone me. He did have a couple of ONS, but it was within the first months of our dating and I didn't find out about them until about two years later & we were married, so it seemed kind of moot. (Good old email! When will people learn to not write anything down?) I had trust issues for awhile, but it's years later now & I don't even think about it anymore. It's even possible he's had a few recently. He disappears a lot, lost weight etc. But my situation is entirely different. For some reason I really don't care. I guess I'm no help to you sweetie, but I hope that you work things out if that is what you wish! Is that what you want?

I once went to counseling with a boyfriend who cheated. The counselor told us that I should write out all my resentments in a long, detailed letter, leaving nothing out. Then read it to him. He was to respond until I was satisfied with his response. Then I was to throw the letter away, and never bring up the past again. I thought it was good advice, but we ended up breaking up for different reasons. The cheating was only part of it.

[timbits]

OK, Part 2:
Anyway, I sent OW the email to never call that number again and I also then sat down and wrote H a letter. I told him that I needed 4 things that were the absolute minimum to stay married.
1. No contact with OW ever. For anything. Ignore emails, phonecalls, if you see her in person not even a nod hello.
2. He do everything the MC recommends, including getting IC for himself. I'm getting back to my own IC to deal with my own issues.
3. He get a job within 30 days. I can't handle the stress of being the only worker in the house. And he has too much free time on his hands to obsess about OW. It's time he started helping me support the household.
4. That we move from our current place (his parent's basemente apt for cheap rent) by the end of November at the latest. I'm not spending another Christmas there.
I told him that there were other things I wanted, but these were the minimum and if he couldn't do that, the least he could do would be to tell me now so I could pick up the pieces and move on.

That afternoon, he drove out to the office (45 minutes away) with flowers and a card. He said in the card that he made a huge mistake and that he felt like our marriage was becoming a friendship only. He felt that because of the lack of intimacy, he needed to have that need met elsewhere. I left the office (it was closing time, anyway) and we drove in seperate vehicles. When we got home, we took one vehicle and went to the parking lot of our favourite restaurant. And we talked. We really talked.

He told me the truth. That he did have feelings for OW, that they had kissed on several occasions and, while they didn't have sex (she had 3 kids and they made it difficult), if the opportunity arose, they would have done so. He said that he felt like he couldn't tell me the truth. True, I had gotten upset before, but I am fairly rational and calm. I was more angry that he LIED to me than by what he did. I told him that I was happy he told me the truth. He agreed that he can't have the two of us in his life and that he chose me. He wanted to be with me. That we both needed to work on issues, but he had a lot of his own and he acknowledged that he was most of the problem. He agreed that he has problems communicating with me and lying to me because he's afraid of my reaction.

Honestly, both he and I feel like he had a mlc (he's not even 30 yet, but he said that he's afraid he's getting older and missed out on a lot). I feel like I love him and want to save the marriage, but this feels like he spit in my face. And that if he wants me to be comfortable with being intimate, I need to TRUST him. I don't trust him right now. I don't know if I can get there.

So what I've done so far is continue my MC sessions and I've started using the 37 rules for the 180. I used to call him a lot when I was at work. I've stopped doing that. He now calls me. I am also starting to watch my diet and go to the gym again. I'm also focusing on doing things I want to do. I want to go to a movie and H isn't in the mood? I'll go by myself. If I want to go to the gym and H is too tired? I'll go by myself.

I think he feels everything is blown over and is fine, but honestly, I'm still hurting. I feel really angry with him over it. I love him more than anything, but I can't help but feel like he takes me for granted. Well, being a martyr is not fun. So I'm not going to allow it any more. I'm going to take care of myself and improve myself and GAL. If he isn't willing to put me first in his life, I'll just have to do it for myself.

[Rick1963]

Welcome timbits. Sorry you find yourself here. Post often and shorter if you can so we can get to know you. You will be moderated at first so your post will take some time to show at 1st so don't lose hope. We are reading. Tell us you ages, children's ages, how long M. I will post Sandis 37 rules below. It is also important to get the divorce remedy and read it. Try to calm down and don't confront him anymore or you will push him away. Take care



1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.

21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.

33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes

[timbits]

Thanks so much for the response.
No kids. I'm 29, he's 29. We've been married for almost 3 years, but together for 13. We were highschool sweethearts. I'm working on the 37. I'm trying really hard, but I'm just so confused at this point. I mean, as much as I feel that I have needs he doesn't fulfill for me, I would NEVER EVER go outside of the marriage to satisfy those needs. I think I'm still in shock about a lot of it. Like, I knew it was happening, but I didn't want to know, kwim?

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board.

Believe none of what he says and 1/2 of what he does.

Learn about detachment.
You can have no EXPECTATIONS
Get the DR book and read it.
Get out and GAL.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your H is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

[timbits]

I know that I posted the rest of the story here on Friday, but it's still not up. WE don't have any kids, we're both 29. We've been together since we were 16, married for almost 3 years.

I've been trying to do the 180 and I think it's going alright. We're not seperated and going to MC, but it's still hard. It's like sometimes he thinks everything's fine, other times he's depressed. And I can't really help him through this. I mean, I feel like my world is falling apart. I'm angry and hurt, but I desperately want this to work.

Then, other times, I don't really know if I want it to work. I feel like I've done EVERYTHING in this relationship and I'm just tired of it.

I'm really confused. I don't know what I want to do.

[timbits]

OK, so to finish the story from the first post, I sent her the email to never call my parents' home again, copied H on it and also sent him another email that morning. I basically said that if he wanted to be with me, he had to make a decision and that there were things I needed to stay in this marriage. I told him that I needed him to get a job (he's been unemployed for over 5 years) within the month, we needed to move out of our current apartment in his parents' home by November, we had to attend MC and he could NEVER speak with OW again.

He agreed to these. I was working in an office about 45 minutes away and he showed up with roses and a card, apologizing and saying he made a huge mistake, that he would do what I wanted and he tried to explain what happened. I have been abused as a child and have difficulty with intimacy (and trust, which has been damaged as a result of this. He said that because we hadn't been intimate in so long, he felt unloved and that he enjoyed the attention that OW gave him.

Mostly, I was angry that he lied to me. So I told him that he had to be honest with me. He agreed, and finally told me the whole story. He told me that he and OW had kissed and made out, but never had sex. This is, in my opinion, a PA regardless of the fact that they didn't consumate it. He told me that it probably would have gone to that point if they hadn't been found out by OW's H. Again, I feel betrayed, but I was relieved to finally know the truth. H's mother is a bit histrionic and he has always had to keep things from her to prevent her from getting hysterical (seriously, she's a narcissist and abusive). He was always afraid to tell me the truth. I told him that I was happy he was being honest with me, that although it hurt me, I needed to know the truth.

We attended MC again that week and, while I feel better, I keep having good and bad days. H is still having problems with his anxiety and depression and I find I am vacillating between pity and anger. I feel bad that he's in pain, but at the same time, he caused a lot of it himself. I feel like he is missing his affair, that he's lonely and that makes me angry. He agreed to do whatever it takes, but I feel like I deserve better than this, KWIM? Yes, I have my own issues, but I would NEVER EVER go outside the marriage for this. Sometimes I feel like leaving. Other times I'm desperate for his affection.

I still feel a disconnect. I feel like he's pushing me away because he's afraid to leave me first, like he wants me to do it. I feel like I love him more than anything, but if we're both so unhappy, then why are we doing this? I'm certainly not happy right now and I know he isn't either. I don't know what to do.

We have another MC session on Thursday. I'm trying to do the 180 and some days are better than others. I just don't know what to do. I'm starting up some hobbies again (I make jewellery and have a metal smithing course coming up) and going to the gym and trying to take care of myself. I have a tendency to let my self care slide, a coping mechanism I developed from my childhood abuse. Sometimes I just feel so alone, which shouldn't happen in a marriage.

[ben11]

Timbits,

Sorry for the place you are in. I'm not really here to give you advice as I'm in a similar situation as you and am working through it as well. From what I've read, yes, the marriage is worth saving. Your H seems at least somewhat sorry and willing to work on the M so that's a positive.

Read the Divorce Remedy, work on yourself, and try to stay busy and positive. Post frequently until you are off moderation. Hopefully some people with better advice will be by to help you along.

I hope things turn around for you soon, but just be prepared to have your patience tested. I'm in month 5 of separation, and about a year into my situation so I can definitely emphasize. Good luck!

[mimivac]

Timbits, as I have learned from this experience so far, the best thing you can do right now is to work on yourself. I know you are both angry at him and desperate for his affection. Totally normal. Sometimes my desperation would become so unbareable that I would break one of the DB principles, and it ALWAYS ended up being bad for me. But as I become more and more self-focused, I find it easier not to confront H. That's not what we need right now. We need a peaceful environment in which we can re-discover ourselves and work on becoming better, happier human beings. Things with the m will move along at their own pace.

It sounds like you've had some hard knocks in life. I've also discovered that I sometimes don't take good care of myself because deep down I feel I don't deserve my own love. As I've been working to see myself as inherently valuable and worthy of love, I have been feeling less and less desperate about my S. One book that has helped me in this regard is "When You Think You're Not Enough: The Four Life-Changing Steps to Loving Yourself."

Good luck and keep posting.

Mimi