Too little too late?

[MichelleLT]

I have always been the LD partner. I am pretty content with once/twice as week as long as I get daily hugs and kisses. I definitely am a physical touch love language, but it doesn't have to be sex.

Almost 5 years ago now, my ex-husband left in the wake of me finding out he was having one PA and responding to online ads. There were problems with his alcoholism and PTSD after a deployment in Iraq with an infantry battalion. That was how I originally discovered MWD's work and this site.

A year and a half after our S, after one short-lived attempt at R before he ran back to OW, I was done. Beyond done. I was even feeling up to dating again. I dated around for a couple months, then met the man who's been my bf for the last 3 years. We each have our own houses that require us to be residents there (they can't be rented out as conditions of our mortgages), but we were spending every night together at one house or another. We also adopted a dog together about a years and a half ago.

For most of our R, he's been the HD person. Last summer, he started back in therapy. EMDR specifically. He had some bad depressions after his sessions and his therapist refused to continue EMDR til he went on ADs. He's been in Cymbalta since.

At first, he had insomnia and had low-grade nausea a lot. Then he started sleeping more. As soon as his head hit the pillow he was snoring most nights. He claims the Cymbalta doesn't affect his sex drive, maybe it doesn't, but it certainly affects his ability to orgasm. Sex had become less frequent and felt like more of a chore. I was always sore for 2 days after and if he came it would almost always be after I told him we needed to stop cuz I hurt and we would try oral or he would masturbate. Didn't really do wonder for my self-esteem, but I just kept telling myself it's the ADs, don't take it personally. All of a sudden I'm feeling like the HD partner though.

I try asking him to look at the 5 Love Languages with me, he looks at them, says they all are great ways to show love, and that's that.

I buy SSM, Passionate Marriage, and re-read Getting Through to the Man You Love. I feel like I'm trying to hit a moving target. So I refocus and think back. When we've talked previously about sex, he's always been big on lingerie. In the last 6 months I think I've spent $200 on totally impractical lacy bras and underwear, nighties, etc.

Somewhere before Christmas I was undressing for bed and had one of the new sets on. I took my time trying to get his attention. He looks over, asks if they're new, I say yes, he says the colors look very 80s and crawls into bed. *sexy vibe totally popped* Gee thanks.

When we'd be talking in the kitchen after work he usually just had a long list of complaints. His commute [censored], fixing up his yard and buying appliances for his house is really hurting his finances, his boss is a micro-manager, etc etc etc. Us was the only thing he wasn't complaining about. Being around someone who doesn't ever smile and complains every night is a total turn off, but I sucked it up and told myself he always loves it when you initiate sex, it'll be a good distraction. I tried being more flirty and touchy. He actually moved to the other side of the kitchen a few times!!!! The other times he either was totally oblivious or things went nowhere!!!!!!

I put some notes in a his work bag, he seemed to like that, but no sex resulted from it. Just a little flirting. Then when he'd get home it would be back to complain complain complain.

Before New Year's we working on a no sex streak of like 2 1/2 weeks. I was bound and determined we were not going to end 2011 that way, nor start 2012 that way. I did manage that, but that was the last time. Ironically, I was wearing nothing sexy or lacy or impractical. Go figure.

Shortly after the new year, I got another set of black/red lacy bra and undies and came out into the living room to model them for him. I was literally freezing my butt off as the house was 60 degrees, he looked up from the couch and said "that's nice" I stood there in shock. He came up with "really nice, sorry I'm distracted".

Then on January 10th, I got the ILYBNILWY. He says he doesn't feel desired by me (yes, because I'm prancing around in my bra and underwear and cold for my own benefit of course!!!!). That he feels like we've become "an old married couple" whatever the hell that means. I'm assuming it doesn't mean like my friends who are happy the kids have moved out so they can have sex anywhere in the house they want to again.

He also says we need to work on our communication. So I say, well what about couples therapy. He says that since there's no passion in our R, there's no point in couples therapy.

So I say why didn't you say anything before now? He says that he's talked to all his friends and his therapist and that he's tried talking to me before (that would be the conversations where he's told me he'd like me to buy lingerie and initiate sex more, and those were like a year previous to the ILYBNILWY) and that he doesn't think things will ever get better because he needs that gut "in love" feeling and that can't just be created.

Since then I've been mostly dark with him. He is very nice and friendly towards me when we do talk, says he misses puppy dog, but has made no move towards me whatsoever. I alternate between wanting to kill him and wanting to jump him. He acts like we can just go from being lovers for 3 years to just friends like nothing has happened!

He hasn't even come to get all his stuff from my house. He may be doing that this weekend.

I'm so confused. I can't decide if he wants me to pursue him or if he's really done!

[MichelleLT]

Oh, I should mention, a week and a half after the ILYBNILWY was his house-warming party. He still wanted me to go. I declined but said I'd drop the dog off. I dropped her off and he asked me two more times to stay.

This week, it's his friend's birthday party. Saturday night, game night at her and her hubby's house. I said, it's my neighbor's birthday too, I told John I'd drop by. Well, you'd be welcome to come to Kim's. It'll be fun. They want you to come. Ummm, I'm busy. After like 3 "no"s he finally said OK.

[Accuray]

Michelle,

First of all my heart goes out to you, that is a painful story. I wish my W would take that kind of interest in trying to improve things! IMO, sex is a red herring in this situation and you have the equivalent of a walkaway spouse. You may want to post your sitch on the newcomers board instead as I feel you need more general DB help than just SSM.

WRT your BF, the "in love" feeling that he's referring to is a chemical reaction in the brain that lasts from several months to several years. It's predictable and normal that it will end. At that point a different kind of longer term love takes over which is more of a choice and takes work. That work requires incentive.

In your BF's case, he has either found OM, naively expected "in love" to last forever and is now confused, or something fundamental is broken in your relationship and his needs aren't being met.

What he is telling you is "script" and you should mainly ignore it. If you haven't yet, read "The Divorce Remedy". In my experience on this board, when you get ILYBINILWY, there is OW involved and your BF is confused. May not be anything beyond a temptation at this point, but something to be aware of. Men rarely jump without somewhere to land.

Read DR and try Newcomers.

Good luck!

Accuray

[MichelleLT]

I guess I wasn't specific enough above, but because of my XH and discovering this site I have read DR, DB, and Getting Through to the Man You Love years ago.

I unfortunately have plenty of experience with the "script".

I agree that BF naively expected that "in love" feeling to last forever without any work.

I have seen no evidence of OW, and I am not easily fooled in that regard. It took me 3 days to figure out XH was having a PA. It is possible there is some temptation out there, but there was no change in our communication patterns (we would frequently talk during the day) and he was not hiding his phone or computer from me.

At this point my main thread is in Surviving the Big D and I have no intention of opening one in Newcomers as that is the last thing I am lol.

[mishka422]

I so wish I had an idea for you, but you know I'm clueless!!! All I can do is throw you my support in whatever you do! You know I'm always here as a shoulder!

[MichelleLT]

I think this forum is even deader than Surviving the Big D lol.

[MichelleLT]

Okay......since no one seems to have anything insightful to add, guess I'll provide some more background.

BF and I share a ton of interests and activities. Our one and only issue has been discussions/arguments over sex and sensuality. He has always been the one to raise the issue. We've probably had 4 or 5 of these conversations over the years. Last one was probably 8-10 months ago. It's always been a struggle for me to figure out what he wants from these conversations. The common complaint was that I should wear more lingerie and initiate sex more often. That doesn't always go well though as we apparently have different definitions of sensuality and initiating sex. Problem is I've never been able to get to the bottom of what he expects from me. At any rate, I would try and focus on the things I could get from him and things would seem good for a while. It seems like the pattern was that my increased effort was appreciated, made him feel desirable, and so he would initiate sex more and we would feel really connected for a while. But then it seems he feels like we would fall back into the same patterns.

[Accuray]

Hi Michelle,

You mentioned that your BF is taking AD's. Is it possible that the AD's have killed his sex drive and he's embarrassed about that? Is it possible that rather than admitting he feels like "less of a man" he's blaming you for not being able to turn him on because that's easier than confronting himself?

Has he talked to his doctor about his reduced sex drive?

If he's blaming you for his lack of sex drive because that's the easiest way for him to deal with it, then there may not be anything you can do.

If you don't feel that's the case, then all you can do is have another conversation about what he wants and keep clarifying until you understand. The key here is you can't let him talk about how he wants to feel, because you can't deliver that. You have to ask, "when you feel that way, what am I doing or saying specifically?"

Obviously he's not going to want to lay out a precise script for you and then have you do exactly that, so you'll need to improvise a bit based on what he's told you. Also ask about timing, how you might be able to tell he's in the mood, etc.

You referenced that you've tried lingerie a few times and he's given you blah responses. When you get into this conversation, ask him why that was without making it an accusation. You tried to do what he asked for but it didn't work, what part did you miss or misunderstand?

Wish I could be more helpful, it's a tough one!

Accuray

[MichelleLT]

I rather doubt he would blame it on me intentionally, but it's entirely possible that the ADs are affecting him and he assumes it must be me/us that is the problem. As he is a cash patient (no insurance because of pre-existing conditions) he rarely makes follow-up appointments. So no, he hasn't talked to his doctor about much of anything. I did suggest he should consider it has something to do with his ADs in an e-mail a week or so ago, he never replied to the e-mail.

I'd tried lingerie a few other times over the years. Much more positive responses in the past. The last 6 months have been very hit or miss. Sometimes, like before Halloween, the pirate boots I ordered for a costume were quite a hit. Other times, nothing. It seems very random to me, I've not been able to put a pattern to it.

Yeah, specifics would definitely be helpful. Not sure he'd even be open to a conversation, but that would be helpful. Guess I just have to figure out how much I might push him away by trying to raise such a conversation.

He still talks to me quite a bit. The longest we've gone without talking since the ILYBNILWY is 2 days. And I've been pretty dark with him, so he's initiated 95% of it. He's totally friendly, nice, wants to vent about work and such, asks how I'm doing, asks about the dog. Hell, when he came to get some stuff from my house he hooked up an old set of his speakers for my living room! It's totally different from XH (of course, with OW involved that one was a lot nastier, and I'm not missing the venom in this case) or any other break-up I've had.

[MichelleLT]

Hah. Speak of the devil. Just got a text from BF asking what time my neighbor's birthday party is tomorrow night.