Another WAW

[25yearsmlc]

I wonder...

what if you showed her some (or all) of this note?

In any case, I agree w/your assessment. When you are in a r w/a woman who isn't seeing you thru the eyes of an embittered eternal victim, you may find real joy in a r.

I very much doubt You will find more pain.

(((( ))))

[anclost]

Will time and distance help her with forgiveness and trust? When we are divorced will that make any difference. She has made it clear that this relationship needs to end. But maybe there is a chance for us in the future she has said. What weight do I give those comments? And if she hasn't forgiven me for the last 16 years why would it change now?

I did ask her last night if she would ever be able to forgive me, she said she wasn't sure. If she did I would know for sure.

Again, thank you for the feedback. We still haven't even discussed the D or finances, I can only imagine how that is going to go.

Lost in Alsaka

[anclost]

Will time and distance help her with forgiveness and trust? When we are divorced will that make any difference. She has made it clear that this relationship needs to end. But maybe there is a chance for us in the future she has said. What weight do I give those comments? And if she hasn't forgiven me for the last 16 years why would it change now?

I did ask her last night if she would ever be able to forgive me, she said she wasn't sure. If she did I would know for sure.

Again, thank you for the feedback. We still haven't even discussed the D or finances, I can only imagine how that is going to go.

Lost in Alsaka

[anclost]

Anc

read Sandi's post to you again. Maybe ask your w if she ever intends to let go of any of your mistakes....you have put up with too much and there ought to be a statute of limitationa on your "sins" and oh btw, SHE"s not kind to you.

What if your W never gets passed what happened when you were drunk? She's held this over you all these years and continues to bring it up. But it's not just that one mistake, it's every thing you try to do and she cuts you down or discourages you from having any hope of better times. Can you live like that? If you knew she would never forgive you and if she never changed from the way she is right now, would you stay in the M?

I can't say much about the Move except you need to assert yourself at work and get out of Alaska.

And stand up to your w. Don't tolerate the crap treatment b/c it's not attractive to be around a doormat

AND

it's confirming that you deserve it. You don't. No one deserves it this long.

see if you can find "Navy"s thread about being in the trenches. He's stuck in a situation where his w blames him for things he didn't even do...and it's a drag .

what do you think your sons think of the relationship they see between you two?

They have sensed the friction between us for some time.

they are watching more than you realize and may be glad to be at school instead...is that what you want them to think of m?

Good point. I want them to see a good relationship but that hasn't been for some time. But I would like it to be between their mother and father.

imagine life without her, but with you being happy...

what does that look like? Can you describe it in some detail HERE?

This is where I struggle. I have a hard time imagining a life without her, I suppose it is because we have been together for 22 years. I never had a serious relationship before her. I have no context for a relationship with someone other than her.

Not sure if I will ever heal, and will be very apprehensive to get involved with someone else. I have a very hard time picturing a future right now. I have no idea what to do with my time. I have been so engrossed in this sitch for the last year, I haven't really thought about my own goals and aspirations.

I have a great job that I enjoy, it keeps me fairly busy. I am constantly getting more and more responsibility at work. Financially, once the boys are done with college I will be fairly well off.

I think the thing I would like to do is go back to school. Maybe take a few years and get my master degree and then see if my W would be interested in a new relationship.

Provided she isn't involved with someone else.

Okay...so,

can you create any of that in your life, now?

[FaithnAK]

Sometimes I wonder if I can ever forgive myself for doing what I did. I have let her beat me over the head with it because I have felt so guilty about it. But at some point we need to move past it.

Step one - forgive yourself. Learn from the mistake and take steps to assure that you never make that/those mistakes again. Period.

Step two - Remove the word WE from that statement. She is an adult and ultimately she needs to come to her own own decision to forgive you. She might or might not. However, until you forgive yourself and radiate that attitude, she will/could continue to use it as a button.

[2thepoint]

Sandi2, that is exactly the question I keep asking myself. she clearly has never forgiven me for what happened all those years ago. At some point I started to resent the fact that we could never get past it, and it has affected our relationship greatly. The spontaneity and fun that was part of our relationship disappeared once all that was revealed.

Sometimes I wonder if I can ever forgive myself for doing what I did. I have let her beat me over the head with it because I have felt so guilty about it. But at some point we need to move past it.

To answer your question, no, I don't want this anymore. I can not be in a relationship with her if she will never forgive me for the cheating. As my first DB coach said you have served your time. She either needs to let it go or she needs to go.

I guess this is a long time coming. Looking back I can see that I was a little distanced from her because I knew she still resented me for my mistakes. Of course maybe if I had tried harder to help her get over it or read "after the affair" and discussed it with her that might have helped.

I'll give another example. 2008, before we moved to ANC, I'm flying out to CA to do some training on a flight crew since we don't have a simulator yet. One of the crew texts me that they are there and will meet me the next evening to brief the training. This text is received about 11:00p.m. EST while my W ad I are in bed. The text was from a female crew member, who I've never met, and my W asks who it is and I show her the text. She was furious. She called this female crew member right then and just screamed at her, asked my she was texting me. Ws she married, did she know how inappropriate this was etc. Just completely chewed this girls rear end. i was dumbfounded. Again, I had never met this crew before. I was going out to give them a check ride. They just wanted to know were to meet me. Scheduling had given them my cell phone number. All this was unsolicited by me and i had no control over it.

What I didn't know until recently, my W told me that when this happened she called he friend in Dallas, the one she will be staying with, and told her that some strange woman was texting me. She couldn't tolerate it, and he was considering leaving me then. Again I didn't know this until a few months ago. I knew she was upset over the text but I had no idea she was talking to her friend about leaving me.

I have zero female friends. The only interaction I have with women is work related and it has been that way for 16 years. Yet she always assumes that I'm messing around on her. She does the bills and the banking account. There isn't a penny that i spend she doesn't know about. She pays the phone bills and knows exactly who I talk to. She accuses me sometimes if she doesn't recognize a number and has even called numbers before. They always check out. She even called my boss once to verify I was were I said i was. There was a time in 2005 at my previous company were the captain I was flying with wanted to take me to dinner because I helped him get his check ride done after he returned to flying status from prostrate surgery. I initially hesitated but then agreed. i told my W but she didn't believe me and thought I went out with flight attendants. So naturally she called the captain to verify my story. There have been too many of those.

I have avoided anything that could possibly look improper. After awhile, I started to get resentful. Didn't really understand why she wouldn't forgive me or trust me. And of course my resentment would show through and that would just make it worse.

Was I the greatest husband, no. But I always wanted to make it work and be her husband. If she isn't ever going to forgive me, maybe she should have left me years ago.

In some respects, I think maybe the D or separation is needed. I haven't lived in years to be honest. I am not the same person around her as I am around everyone else. I'm defensive, guarded, hurt, lonely etc around her. I'm fun, witty, happy and carefree around everyone else. You can see how I don't ever do anything with anyone because it is likely to be interpreted as me cheating on her. Heck we are supposedly divorcing in 2 months yet she still is concerned that either I'm cheating on her now or I will have a girlfriend right away and be married to her within a year. BTW, "the only reason anyone will be interested in you is because you're a pilot and paid well" is her quote to me.

Yet I am ILW her. Why? I have no reference point for how a relationship should be anymore. How do you work through all this baggage? What if she called it off nd said she didn't want the D? It would require a lot of effort on both our parts to make it work right? MC and Retroville would be musts in my opinion.

Yet I'm not sure she will ever get to the point to put the work in because she feels I'm worth it. She has stated many times that "she deserves better than me". I know they say these things at this point as a WAW. But maybe she really feels that way. She has compared me to other men who are married and said point blank "why can't you be more like XXX". A few years ago I had had it and said "fine why don't you go marry XXX". Of course i apologized for saying that but she got under my skin and got the best of me.

I'm completely at a loss a this point to be honest. My DB coach thinks I'm making some progress but I'm not so sure.

So no Sandi2, I can't live like that.

Lost in Alaska

I wonder...

what if you showed her some (or all) of this note?...

...I very much doubt You will find more pain.

(((( ))))

Anclost - If I interpret 25's post ^^^ the why I think she intended, I would echo her point about what if you showed your W really how you have been feeling for these so many years.

Of course you'd have to personalize your post above a bit, but when I read what you wrote (and I had to read it a couple of times over a couple of days for it to sink in with me)) I think it spells out very concisely just how you have been feeling.

So your W can play it like everything is your fault until the cows some home, but the reality is you have lived for years in a messed up M full of distrust and pain. Maybe your W needs to feel what you have been feeling. And a letter that spells everything out the way you did would have that affect IMO.

Think about it.

Oh, and stop apologizing, it clearly is doing you no good. Get over it. Forgive yourself and lay down that load, never to pick it up again.

[sandi2]

Would like to hear how you're doing.

[anclost]

Thanks Sandi2 for asking. Have been busy with work and our sons. Had to go back to KY for a few meetings and then went up to IN to see our two sons. I picked up my oldest from college and then we drove up to see my youngest compete in regionals for horse jumping. Alas, he didn't place but he sure rode well.

My W has her ticket to Dallas on Apr 26th. She is now planning on shipping her car to WA, then driving it to Dallas. Initially she had planned on having her acquaintance from San Antonio drive the car back for her, but she decided she didn't want him to because of the length of the drive.

It just means to me that she is resolute in her decision and there isn't any turning back. There has also been more drama from her. I had bought a couple of shirts and one pair of pants for work and they were delivered last weekend while I was in IN. She really was upset that I had bought the clothes. The texts came all night long about how I didn't show her attention, affection etc. "Now I'm riding off into the sunset with my new clothed and body" and that I never loved her. Said she shredded the clothes. She didn't actually, which I knew she hadn't. It is her standard way of dealing with me, just like 11 years ago when she said she threw her wedding ring into the field, I had filed the insurance claim, then found out she really didn't do that. The texts were all character assaination just like the ones from Xmas eve.

Another odd case is when she came home from work and I was out picking up dinner. She immediately called me to find out where I was. She basically accused me of being deceitful(I hadn't been gone from the house for more than 30 minutes). She then proceeded to check the cell phone records, saw I had talked to someone for about 2 hours on the phone. She called the number, she finds out it was my friend from work who lives in IN, whom she knows since he has gone out to dinner with us when he comes through ANC. He is a coworker of mine. She hung up when he answered the phone. Before I arrived back at the house he called me and said that my wife had called his phone and hung up. He had no idea why she called.

My W also got angry that I was going back to see the boys. Constantly says things like "Oh, now you're going to be the perfect Dad". Very interested in what I say the the boys, do I discuss her etc. Told me I better not say anything negative about her. She also didn't want my oldest son to go with me to see our other son. ??? I can't understand her reaction to this. You would think it would be a positive thing.

And of course the day after I got back from IN, it was her birthday. So I had the boys sign a card for her, gave her a card from me and some flowers. When she went to work that day I prepared some dinner for the evening to include baking her birthday cake. When she got home she ate dinner with me, loved the halibut and the fact that I made her a cake. I also bought 49 tulips(her favorite), and put them around the house in 5 different vases. It took her awhile to figure out the significance of the tulips but giggled when she realized how many there were (49th birthday).

But no good deed goes unpunished. She said she wished I had done that 5 years ago, we wouldn't be here right now. Next night we watched a movie together, it was a little sad and clearly affected her. When she went to bed she started to cry, said her life was an empty shell and she hated her life and how I ruined her life.

It never fails to always come back to how our failed relationship is all my fault. When I try to discuss how I've felt, she brushes it off because I never brought it up before.

Note: While writing this post, my W has texted me twice from work. I didn't reply, so within 5 minutes she called the home phone to see if I was home.

I discussed all this with my counselor. She was pretty alarmed by my W claiming to have cut up the clothes. She feels that my W has some extreme paranoid issues. And that they have been exacerbated over the past few years. All this stems from her issues as a child and the failure of her parents to address the issue with her brother.

I told my coach that in some ways I am looking forward to my W leaving. I can't keep this up forever. Nothing is changing and maybe the separation will be a catalyst for some movement in our relationship. Of course my W always reminds me that we have no relationship.

Then yesterday. I was cleaning the house and found a torn up piece of paper with my W's writing on the back. It couldn't quite make out all that it said, it was a description of a dream she had, how it woke her up and what the dream was about. It really made no sense. But at the end she had written "I love you". It was torn in small pieces and in the bathroom trash can. To me it looked as if she had written it recently. I asked her about it and she said it was old and she was looking for something else and came across it, tore it up and threw it away.

Am i being naive? Is it possible for my wife to be so jealous and paranoid about me and what I'm doing, how I look and who will replace her all while having a relationship with someone else. Is it possible she is in love with someone else? She made it clear that she isn't looking for anyone and she doesn't cheat. Does any of this matter anyway?

Since she asked for the divorce back in Sept, I've followed the DB guide and haven't looked for any signs of my W having an affair. She spends a lot of time with me when she isn't working. It hasn't crossed my mind, but in reality it shouldn't matter right. But she has hammered me so hard and so long about my cheating years ago, I'm not sure how I would feel if I found out she was ILW someone else. With our relationship, how could I get past that. It would almost seem to be easier for me to walk away. Am I reading this incorrectly?

I'm tired. I'm exhausted thinking about my W. I just want some relief one way or the other.

What is your take on the move to TX. My counselor things my W will be back. She said the interesting thing about people who perceive they don't get enough attention, when they walk away they come to realize that they no longer have a way to get attention or manipulate the other. My fear has always been that once she goes to TX, she will move without me. Should I have that fear, I know I can't control it.

Coach also said my W has a strong reaction to any success I have. Learning to cook, working out, being a good father, helping others and especially any success work related. She does not want me to be successful. Anything that paints me in a good light she quickly tears down.

25, 2TP, J3B, FinAK and Sandi2, your comments have helped greatly. Especially about forgiving myself and setting down the load never to be picked up again. I was really starting to detach and even question if a relationship was possible with my W. Unless she is willing to make some significant changes I don't see a path forward. Of course i realized I had to change months ago and have been working on that ever since.

Finding the paper with ILY on it has set me back a bit. Again, I don't know what it really means but it has me doubting myself again.

Thanks

Lost in Alaska

[sandi2]

Finding the paper with ILY on it has set me back a bit. Again, I don't know what it really means but it has me doubting myself again.

Why on earth? It was written by a irrational woman who had a weird dream. You don't even know who the ILY was intended. Forget it.

I personally agree with your counselor. I have thought from the beginning that your W has serious problems. At this point in the R, I feel you need to make a decision as to whether or not her problems are going to pull you under until you sink.

Why do you have so much fear of her moving to Dallas? I don't get it. Don't you realize that once she gets there and sees she doesn't have anyone to dish her bad behavior that she's going to try to drag you down again? You seem to be the only one she controls, so she will still try to do that as long as she can pick up a cell phone.

What did you say to your W when she did these outlandish things? Do you continue to just be passive and let her say and do whatever she feels toward you? How can she respect a man who will let a woman treat him so shabbily and do nothing? At what point do you start applying 180's? Maybe you have in some smaller areas, but it seems that you are not addressing the big things....like how she treats you. It just seems to me that you are doing the same as you did years ago when she began to beat you down. Has that been working for you?

Sorry, I think you are a nice man, but I get so frustrated with you. Maybe I just want you to throw her across your lap and give her a good spanking! (Bet that would be a 180!)

[2thepoint]

[quote]Sorry, I think you are a nice man, but I get so frustrated with you. Maybe I just want you to throw her across your lap and give her a good spanking! (Bet that would be a 180!)

True that^^^^!!