Tips for the Spouse with the Higher Sex Drive

[25yearsmlc]

25, Thanks for your comments. I hope you don't think I'm like your brother. I don't believe that I malign my wife for the point of hiding my own problems, nor do I believe that I'm a "bad lover".

Oh FYI-
I agree, and never thought you were like That brother of mine. (the other brothers are much different in this regard and it's pretty obvious...)
Nor are you maligning your wife, imo.



That last part is kind of funny because how would I know unless I compared myself to how other men perform? All I can tell you is that I had many girlfriends and several long term (3+ years) relationships before I got married, and sex was never an issue in any of them. --

That whole story feeds into the "LD wife is the H's fault" philosophy. I guess it would be easy to embrace that if I had an HD wife and was on the outside looking in, but my position in this relationship has definitely given me a different perspective.

well just for the record

with that anecdote about my x sil and brother, my x sil THOUGHT SHE was LD b/c she wasn't that attracted to my brother. He was out of shape, gained a lot of weight AND wasn't a good lover so his self serving assumptions about sex
AND the way he spoke of it

made her feel that SHE had the problem...

Oddly and coincidentally, I happen to know other women who dated that brother and he wasn't great to them in bed either.

He also has no idea. But to compare his girlfriends in their 20s with his wife 20 years later was also not realistic. Most girls in their early 20s will give it a whirl several times even if it's not great --


So her so called "low sex drive" - IS a whole lot higher now with her new husband and they've been together now for over 10 years. Just interesting to me. But I think you are doing your best.

I also think the weight loss is a good idea for a ton of reasons.

My h is in great shape and I appreciate it a lot. I feel more protected and attracted to him, emotionally and sexually (though a tad pressured to do the same!!)

it's clearly a healthier way to live, and that should matter too, sex issues aside.


My MC, who I thought was very good, explained "sex drive" as being part of your sexuality. He said that an LD person cannot become HD any more than a straight person can will themselves to become gay. It's just not there, it's not a matter of dysfunction or poor performance.

He said if a person is LD, it is either a result of a treatable problem, or it is not. If you rule out medical and psychological problems, then all you have left is an innate low desire for sex, which he said is naturally occurring, like blue eyes.

Well, and or not wanting that partner for whatever reason. Weight gain, poor treatment, OR their own internal wacky issues...but Accuray, I agree that the LD partner needs to get seen by an MD just to check. I know of at least a handful of marriages that have major sex problems for health or pharmacological reasons that something CAN be adjusted for

OR just telling the partner the reason for the low libido can help so they know it's not them.

I don't happen to think that is your sitch. I think you are making great efforts, and it sounds as if you have a decent mc

although I'm not sure how solution based he/she is.

How are you these days?

IS this your main thread?


For my W's part, she said that she has always been LD, for as long as she can remember. She said that she has never had sex with anyone because it was something she wanted to do for the sake of having sex, but instead would do it because it was necessary to maintain a relationship that she valued.


that's her being loving, isn't it?

Maybe she only picks clumsy men?

good one

I guess I have a question for some of the guys that have "tried it all"

Do you believe you may some day get the sex life you want? Or have you totally given up.

If you've given up then I can understand that.

If you haven't then what's your next step?

I do not believe that I will have the sex life I want with this woman. I have not totally given up on the sex life I want.

What's my next step? As I told you, I'm going to run the MAP. I read the book, I get it, I'm working on it. He said not to expect fast results. WRT sex rank, I'm overweight, but not in terrible shape. I'm very physically active and muscular. W is overweight as well, but probably less so. I'm 6 foot 228lbs. My high was about 240, and my goal is 200 (for now). I'm doing weightwatchers, and they recommend losing 1-2 pounds per week, so getting down to 200 will take a while!

but you do work out? It's an attractive thing to have a "strong" man. Even if it's only emotionally attractive, It just is.

Once I feel I'm in crazy good shape, I'll see if it makes a difference. If it doesn't I'll reassess again.

That said, sex is not the only issue in my marriage, nor is it the most important. The Captain said on another friend that the way to survive a sexless marriage is to expect "friendship without romance". I'm coming to believe that's what W really wants, that's where she's comfortable. I am not. I would like a relationship characterized by more intimacy, and not just physical.


sounds pretty darn reasonable, fwiw, and she does love you, thank God.


I am having sex, once or twice per week, and [b]sometimes it's good. It's the intimacy that's missing.
[/b]
Accuray

explain, if it's good, is that when the itimacy is there? OR is it always more or less, lacking?

[ssmguy]

ironic, b/c every woman I know who has a h with ED, began by first blaming herself or assuming he wanted someone else more. Only repeated assurances and physical/medical explanations sufficed to reassure the wives. Anecdotal, but true.

Ah, good point. I kind of lost perspective there because my wife wouldn't mind if I had ED, as it would take the pressure off of her.

I'm a bit shocked you cannot imagine that scenario when I cannot imagine it not happening, at least for awhile.

Yeah, well that's because my situation is kind of shocking to other people I guess. I've lost perspective.

Well I guess I do see feeling close and intimate as being more socially redeeming or "better" than directly grabbing sex organs, but as a woman I'm sure you will say I'm biased and maybe I am.

Funny how this argument doesn't come up in a new relationship where the couple is excited about each other. Everything is seen as playful, funny, and exciting. It comes up only after a while when the excitement and newness subsides, and the couple doesn't understand how to keep things going, and they feel they've "fallen out of love" to some degree. Then what each person saw as romantic or humorous in the other person gets to be annoying. Then warm thoughts like, "he loves my body and makes me feel good about myself" becomes "he's just disgusting and grabbing". And the woman's need for romance gets to be seen as needy and sexually witholding.

I have to admit that, as a man, it always bugs me a bit that when you first meet a woman, sex is given freely. But then when you're married for a while, there's no sex unless you've fulfilled a long list of conditions. And even then maybe it's not enough. Small wonder some men go a little crazy when they meet the cute young thing at the office who's willing to give them sex without them having to do anything.

Where did I hear it.... women want to change their men, while men want their women to stay just like they were when they first met them.

[Cyrena]

Mmmm, there's nothing quite as comforting as wrapping oneself up in the "victim" cloak, to ensure that all the problems in one's marriage or sexual relationship fall squarely on the shoulders of one's partner, allowing a person to remain as naive and sexually immature as when he or she was a teen....

Many people learn to move their marriages and relationships beyond this initial impasse that every young couple runs into. It takes work, personal growth and a willingness to overcome one's blind spots to truly love oneself and another ... but is definitely possible and worth it.

[25yearsmlc]

ironic, b/c every woman I know who has a h with ED, began by first blaming herself or assuming he wanted someone else more. Only repeated assurances and physical/medical explanations sufficed to reassure the wives. Anecdotal, but true.

Ah, good point. I kind of lost perspective there because my wife wouldn't mind if I had ED, as it would take the pressure off of her.


Truly SSM, I do think you have lost your perspective. In the circles in which I roam, it is just very unusual in our age group to eliminate sex.

I know maybe 2 couples and both of the men have serious medical issues for their low libido or ED. But even they manage to please their partner, or at least try. I know wives with low libido who won't make love in the a.m. when their hormones are at their lowest, but they too, WILL make love b/c they like feeling close even if there's no ultimate sexual satisfaction. I've told you this before but you still want to apply the "all or nothing" rules to women.

So yes, IMO, you've got a very unusual perspective. Is that why you come here? To check it?

I'm a bit shocked you cannot imagine that scenario when I cannot imagine it not happening, at least for awhile.

Yeah, well that's because my situation is kind of shocking to other people I guess. I've lost perspective.


True.

Well I guess I do see feeling close and intimate as being more socially redeeming or "better" than directly grabbing sex organs, but as a woman I'm sure you will say I'm biased and maybe I am.

Funny how this argument doesn't come up in a new relationship where the couple is excited about each other. Everything is seen as playful, funny, and exciting.

Wow, I think that's JUST NOT TRUE or accurate. Several of my siblings and friends dated after the age of 40 and after being married to others. Most of them have high sex drives. None of them would suggest that grabbing the crotch of the other is a turn on, or that it's a turn on "because it's new".

I think your comment that "Everything is seen as playful, funny and exciting" is maybe just your fantasy of how others are.

As a sexually active young woman, even then, NOT EVERYTHING was okay. There are such things as turn offs, period. And it's not just the "Puritans" who have them.

Every woman I have ever discussed sex with, has mentioned something she did NOT care for at all. It varies b/c we're individuals, and sweeping generalizations don't apply well.

But I believe Every couple has to get to know each other to learn what feels good, what leads you to what, and what NOT to do.

NOT all moves are smooth, smart, sensitive or welcome. Shouldn't count as a flaw if the person is turned off by a move--

but I think I already know your answer will be that YOUR wife is turned off by all things...I have heard you.

I am simply trying to steer you away from the generalizations you make when you imagine things can be summed up w/ "when you are young it's ALL good and when you age you get picky."

Neither are true.That's certainly not my experience personally or what I know of from other women.

I recently did a rare thing and attended a bachelorette party for a younger woman I worked with. The crowd was younger by one and 2 decades w/a few women older than me. So we watched a porn flick and a lot of it was hilarious, if you count the "dialogue"...

But what I was most struck by was how turned OFF these 25 y/o women were, AND the older women, by some of the things the men SAID or how they seemed rough with the women. No real foreplay, and a lot of negative name calling which we ASSUME turns men on, b/c why else is it there? Sure not for the women..

The party of women felt like the man in the films didn't like the woman, or held her in contempt of some sort, and he sure did NOT care if he hurt her and this was "mainstream" porn (Not S & M). Not one woman said it was a turn on and this was NOT an inhibited crowd. However,

The women were much more turned on by well built male dancers who are playful, flirtatious like they enjoy women, and who take their time.

OH and many women at the reception (over 30) mentioned the handsome older men who can lead on the dance floor...as being sexy.

Have you ever considered taking ball room dancing w/your wife? I cannot over stress the value of it.

THAT was the "savior" of some marriages at the party. I can see why...call Arthur Murray.

No strings attached b/c At least you'll both get exercise and do something together

and it is romantic and bonding. It MIGHT lead to sex-- but at least you'd know there was intimacy. That's an improvement, correct? If you tell me you "tried that already" "BUT IT DID NOT LEAD TO SEX" than you are only reading parts of what I post. Sex can't be the only goal and you said you missed intimacy. Only sexual intimacy?

Even if there's no sex soon, dancing together is sensual and intimate. It gets a lot of women in the mood for romance. FYI, my first 10 dates with my h were dancing dates and our marriage, even when rocky, was always passionate.

Dancing helps that a lot.


It comes up only after a while when the excitement and newness subsides,---- And the woman's need for romance gets to be seen as needy and sexually witholding.

I assume you are speaking for yourself.^^^ I mean, your wife did not say SHE wants romance, did she? So who are you referring to? Why is the need for romance "needy"? maybe this is semantics but I was so struck by your "grab the crotch" scneario I am hoping that was an off the top of your head idea...

I think women AND MEN in healthy marriages, want decent relations before 9pm (bedtime) and being criticized, nagged or ignored all day is, generally, a turn off.


I have to admit that, as a man, it always bugs me a bit that when you first meet a woman, sex is given freely. But then when you're married for a while, there's no sex unless you've fulfilled a long list of conditions.


who gave you sex "freely"?

Other than the proverbial "slut", (and I submit they crave something emotional)

what woman didn't want to feel valued, desired and or cherished so she could become intimate with you? Can you think of 2?

I agree that you have that unrealistic perspective, and maybe that makes you resent what you think others had. Not that accurate really.

Most of us who ML, had real relationships before we had sex. If that is a "cost" to you, so be it. We invested in the relationship AND in getting to know the other person and their bodies.

I was not a virgin when I married but I never slept with a man I didn't feel loved by. Not even once. I nearly always had a very good experience.

With a few exceptions for one night stands in college, I estimate 80% of my female friends are in the same boat.


And even then maybe it's not enough. Small wonder some men go a little crazy when they meet the cute young thing at the office who's willing to give them sex without them having to do anything.

"even then it's not enough"....(Speak for yourself and OWN THAT)

"cute young thing at the office who's willing to give sex without the man having to do anything."


Seriously? You believe that happens with real women? At ANY age? I don't. SSM, you might be watching too many TV shows on cable, or going to strip clubs that fuel this delusion. Is it "Mad Men" in which the mistresses DO expect a ring, btw. Any "cute young thing" that SEEMS to give sex "freely" - is NOT.

(Btw-you left out reasons such as money and power or fame or professional advancement, which SOME men can provide a "cute young thing", without the man being good in the sack.[/b]

But that's not really "freely given", is it?

And those women usually trade in the "does nothing" lover, for a real one later on.

OR are you reading Penthouse letters to the editor for the fantasies of men who think such a thing exists as GREAT SEX with the man "having to do nothing."??

Gosh, that sure sounds appealing to me and the other women reading this...

Maybe You are so frustrated that now it's what you think you want, but no woman I know does. Having sex with man who "does nothing" pretty much yields nothing for the recipient, or should I say "non recipient."

Sounds like you want a harem of sex slaves. So, inherit a billiion dollars and get one... OR

Read more books about good love making, or don't read them if they make you feel worse.

But this wildly inaccurate fantasy world you think is out there, in which cute girls hand it out to any man "FREELY" isn't real.


Then you fast forward to the over 40 narried crowd, all of whom (females that is) you suggest are sexless manipulators and withholders

who have attached "Climb Mt Everest!"- like conditions before they'll make love, [b]and you seem to think that is typical.

OMG if you learn nothing else here, PLEASE learn that ^^ is NOT typical.

Most men don't want to "do nothing" in bed and Most women want and try to maintain healthy sex lives even after the "ripe old age" of 40 and 50 and yes 70.

SIDENOTE- I attended a birthday party of the matriarch's 100th. I HEARD my aunts discussing sex, which THEY brought up. The youngest is My 75 y/o aunt who privately commented how happy she is that her younger boyfriend is so sexually active.

My aunts in their 80s may be rare, but they all raved about the gift of Viagra...read that sentence again SSM. These are my aunts and they are ALL 75 and over wanting and having GOOD sex, albeit with mostly younger men. Only one aunt has her original husband still alive.. The others ALL date younger.

Most of them complain that it's difficult to find men who want or can have sex at their age, so the aunts have to date younger. They are not Cougars, but they want to have sex. And they enjoy men.

A few have h's w/ED who make up for it in other ways, and they love their men for the effort. Not every man would "make love" to his wife if he knew he himself would not achieve an O, (but most expect wives to do so).

They also discussed vibrators and gadgets that cracked me up, but in hindsight, are pretty reassuring to me as far as how aging CAN be.

My 90 y/o mother told me she misses sex with my father, which was a bit too much info for me...but still,

SSm, you don't seem to realize how many women DO LOVE SEX.

So stop lumping everyone together.

BOTTOM LINE---

Figure out if there is anything YOU CAN DO that you are willing to do,

other than coming here b/c really

you have to decide if this board is helping you.

To me, You sound so stuck and bitter that your beliefs sound less and less realistic and more bitter as time passes.

You sure this is helping you? HOW?


Where did I hear it.... women want to change their men, while men want their women to stay just like they were when they first met them.

I don't know where you heard it, maybe from other bitter men? I never heard the second clause either, but Gee SSM, that is just yet another lovely compliment to women from you...oh wait, no it's not a compliment. It's a dig.

Down deep, has your marriage made you just resent the heck out of women in general? Do you have daughters? If I recall right, you only have sons.

Please don't pass these beliefs onto them b/c they will NOT be helped by them.

Sorry you are still hurt. And stuck. Try not to spiral down into bitterness. It sure does not help --and I say that from personal experience, though for different reasons.

[DaddyLongShanks]

ironic, b/c every woman I know who has a h with ED, began by first blaming herself or assuming he wanted someone else more. Only repeated assurances and physical/medical explanations sufficed to reassure the wives. Anecdotal, but true.

Ah, good point. I kind of lost perspective there because my wife wouldn't mind if I had ED, as it would take the pressure off of her.


Truly SSM, I do think you have lost your perspective. In the circles in which I roam, it is just very unusual in our age group to eliminate sex.

I know maybe 2 couples and both of the men have serious medical issues for their low libido or ED. But even they manage to please their partner, or at least try. I know wives with low libido who won't make love in the a.m. when their hormones are at their lowest, but they too, WILL make love b/c they like feeling close even if there's no ultimate sexual satisfaction. I've told you this before but you still want to apply the "all or nothing" rules to women.

So yes, IMO, you've got a very unusual perspective. Is that why you come here? To check it?

I'm a bit shocked you cannot imagine that scenario when I cannot imagine it not happening, at least for awhile.

Yeah, well that's because my situation is kind of shocking to other people I guess. I've lost perspective.


True.

Well I guess I do see feeling close and intimate as being more socially redeeming or "better" than directly grabbing sex organs, but as a woman I'm sure you will say I'm biased and maybe I am.

Funny how this argument doesn't come up in a new relationship where the couple is excited about each other. Everything is seen as playful, funny, and exciting.

Wow, I think that's JUST NOT TRUE or accurate. Several of my siblings and friends dated after the age of 40 and after being married to others. Most of them have high sex drives. None of them would suggest that grabbing the crotch of the other is a turn on, or that it's a turn on "because it's new".

I think your comment that "Everything is seen as playful, funny and exciting" is maybe just your fantasy of how others are.

As a sexually active young woman, even then, NOT EVERYTHING was okay. There are such things as turn offs, period. And it's not just the "Puritans" who have them.

Every woman I have ever discussed sex with, has mentioned something she did NOT care for at all. It varies b/c we're individuals, and sweeping generalizations don't apply well.

But I believe Every couple has to get to know each other to learn what feels good, what leads you to what, and what NOT to do.

NOT all moves are smooth, smart, sensitive or welcome. Shouldn't count as a flaw if the person is turned off by a move--

but I think I already know your answer will be that YOUR wife is turned off by all things...I have heard you.

I am simply trying to steer you away from the generalizations you make when you imagine things can be summed up w/ "when you are young it's ALL good and when you age you get picky."

Neither are true.That's certainly not my experience personally or what I know of from other women.

I recently did a rare thing and attended a bachelorette party for a younger woman I worked with. The crowd was younger by one and 2 decades w/a few women older than me. So we watched a porn flick and a lot of it was hilarious, if you count the "dialogue"...

But what I was most struck by was how turned OFF these 25 y/o women were, AND the older women, by some of the things the men SAID or how they seemed rough with the women. No real foreplay, and a lot of negative name calling which we ASSUME turns men on, b/c why else is it there? Sure not for the women..

The party of women felt like the man in the films didn't like the woman, or held her in contempt of some sort, and he sure did NOT care if he hurt her and this was "mainstream" porn (Not S & M). Not one woman said it was a turn on and this was NOT an inhibited crowd. However,

The women were much more turned on by well built male dancers who are playful, flirtatious like they enjoy women, and who take their time.

OH and many women at the reception (over 30) mentioned the handsome older men who can lead on the dance floor...as being sexy.

Have you ever considered taking ball room dancing w/your wife? I cannot over stress the value of it.

THAT was the "savior" of some marriages at the party. I can see why...call Arthur Murray.

No strings attached b/c At least you'll both get exercise and do something together

and it is romantic and bonding. It MIGHT lead to sex-- but at least you'd know there was intimacy. That's an improvement, correct? If you tell me you "tried that already" "BUT IT DID NOT LEAD TO SEX" than you are only reading parts of what I post. Sex can't be the only goal and you said you missed intimacy. Only sexual intimacy?

Even if there's no sex soon, dancing together is sensual and intimate. It gets a lot of women in the mood for romance. FYI, my first 10 dates with my h were dancing dates and our marriage, even when rocky, was always passionate.

Dancing helps that a lot.


It comes up only after a while when the excitement and newness subsides,---- And the woman's need for romance gets to be seen as needy and sexually witholding.

I assume you are speaking for yourself.^^^ I mean, your wife did not say SHE wants romance, did she? So who are you referring to? Why is the need for romance "needy"? maybe this is semantics but I was so struck by your "grab the crotch" scneario I am hoping that was an off the top of your head idea...

I think women AND MEN in healthy marriages, want decent relations before 9pm (bedtime) and being criticized, nagged or ignored all day is, generally, a turn off.


I have to admit that, as a man, it always bugs me a bit that when you first meet a woman, sex is given freely. But then when you're married for a while, there's no sex unless you've fulfilled a long list of conditions.


who gave you sex "freely"?

Other than the proverbial "slut", (and I submit they crave something emotional)

what woman didn't want to feel valued, desired and or cherished so she could become intimate with you? Can you think of 2?

I agree that you have that unrealistic perspective, and maybe that makes you resent what you think others had. Not that accurate really.

Most of us who ML, had real relationships before we had sex. If that is a "cost" to you, so be it. We invested in the relationship AND in getting to know the other person and their bodies.

I was not a virgin when I married but I never slept with a man I didn't feel loved by. Not even once. I nearly always had a very good experience.

With a few exceptions for one night stands in college, I estimate 80% of my female friends are in the same boat.


And even then maybe it's not enough. Small wonder some men go a little crazy when they meet the cute young thing at the office who's willing to give them sex without them having to do anything.

"even then it's not enough"....(Speak for yourself and OWN THAT)

"cute young thing at the office who's willing to give sex without the man having to do anything."


Seriously? You believe that happens with real women? At ANY age? I don't. SSM, you might be watching too many TV shows on cable, or going to strip clubs that fuel this delusion. Is it "Mad Men" in which the mistresses DO expect a ring, btw. Any "cute young thing" that SEEMS to give sex "freely" - is NOT.

(Btw-you left out reasons such as money and power or fame or professional advancement, which SOME men can provide a "cute young thing", without the man being good in the sack.[/b]

But that's not really "freely given", is it?

And those women usually trade in the "does nothing" lover, for a real one later on.

OR are you reading Penthouse letters to the editor for the fantasies of men who think such a thing exists as GREAT SEX with the man "having to do nothing."??

Gosh, that sure sounds appealing to me and the other women reading this...

Maybe You are so frustrated that now it's what you think you want, but no woman I know does. Having sex with man who "does nothing" pretty much yields nothing for the recipient, or should I say "non recipient."

Sounds like you want a harem of sex slaves. So, inherit a billiion dollars and get one... OR

Read more books about good love making, or don't read them if they make you feel worse.

But this wildly inaccurate fantasy world you think is out there, in which cute girls hand it out to any man "FREELY" isn't real.


Then you fast forward to the over 40 narried crowd, all of whom (females that is) you suggest are sexless manipulators and withholders

who have attached "Climb Mt Everest!"- like conditions before they'll make love, [b]and you seem to think that is typical.

OMG if you learn nothing else here, PLEASE learn that ^^ is NOT typical.

Most men don't want to "do nothing" in bed and Most women want and try to maintain healthy sex lives even after the "ripe old age" of 40 and 50 and yes 70.

SIDENOTE- I attended a birthday party of the matriarch's 100th. I HEARD my aunts discussing sex, which THEY brought up. The youngest is My 75 y/o aunt who privately commented how happy she is that her younger boyfriend is so sexually active.

My aunts in their 80s may be rare, but they all raved about the gift of Viagra...read that sentence again SSM. These are my aunts and they are ALL 75 and over wanting and having GOOD sex, albeit with mostly younger men. Only one aunt has her original husband still alive.. The others ALL date younger.

Most of them complain that it's difficult to find men who want or can have sex at their age, so the aunts have to date younger. They are not Cougars, but they want to have sex. And they enjoy men.

A few have h's w/ED who make up for it in other ways, and they love their men for the effort. Not every man would "make love" to his wife if he knew he himself would not achieve an O, (but most expect wives to do so).

They also discussed vibrators and gadgets that cracked me up, but in hindsight, are pretty reassuring to me as far as how aging CAN be.

My 90 y/o mother told me she misses sex with my father, which was a bit too much info for me...but still,

SSm, you don't seem to realize how many women DO LOVE SEX.

So stop lumping everyone together.

BOTTOM LINE---

Figure out if there is anything YOU CAN DO that you are willing to do,

other than coming here b/c really

you have to decide if this board is helping you.

To me, You sound so stuck and bitter that your beliefs sound less and less realistic and more bitter as time passes.

You sure this is helping you? HOW?


Where did I hear it.... women want to change their men, while men want their women to stay just like they were when they first met them.

I don't know where you heard it, maybe from other bitter men? I never heard the second clause either, but Gee SSM, that is just yet another lovely compliment to women from you...oh wait, no it's not a compliment. It's a dig.

Down deep, has your marriage made you just resent the heck out of women in general? Do you have daughters? If I recall right, you only have sons.

Please don't pass these beliefs onto them b/c they will NOT be helped by them.

Sorry you are still hurt. And stuck. Try not to spiral down into bitterness. It sure does not help --and I say that from personal experience, though for different reasons.

The more I think about the SSM situation, the worse it looks. Basically we have two partners with two different drives, two different NEEDS. One partner says basically, "your needs are not important to me, because I don't feel like it".

It's kinda like treating someone with tenderness and care, perhaps massages and the such. You know your wife likes you to do certain things for her, that it makes her feel more loved and special, and you decide you will not do it because you do not feel like it, or you do not feel it.

Why not be happy that you are able to pleasure your partner?

I'm having a hard time with these SSM low drive or low needs people that really think that they should not meet in the middle somewhere. That every engagement, they have to really DESIRE to do an act of kindness or love.

It's just real selfish to me to understand that if they do not FEEL it, they just won't do it.

Also it's sad to hear these "HD" individuals, complain about the same thing year after year. And to realize that the low SEX is just one symptom of a bad marriage. It could be the LD person is so SELFISH that they do not consider any of the HD's needs at all.

[ssmguy]

25yearsmlc, wow, you're not giving me much credit. Seems you take some hilarously negative interpretations on some of my comments. I guess my humor is not showing in my writing.

Yes, I come here to get a different perspective, or more normal one.

I didn't mean that literally EVERYTHING is seen as playful. I'm not that stupid. Lets just say, for some reason, obviously, there is a lot more sex early in many marriages. And many of those marriages later end up with huge sexual desire differences.

But, for that matter, I myself never minded a crotch grab, which my wife gave me plenty of in the first months. But that all went away a long time ago, unfortunately. And no, I never did that to my wife because I knew she wouldn't like it. I would have loved her giving me unexpected crotch grabs all through our marriage. But to her, apparently, it was more of a jokey kind of humorous thing. Some with some other fantasies and role-play. It surprised me that she thought it was fun only once, apparently just as novelty. Now her attitude is more like, well, we did that when we were young and we don't have time for that now. And my reaction is, huh?

What you're discounting, it seems to me, is that the same things that worked well when we first met don't work at all now. And no, it's not entirely because I've turned into a clod, and that I was earlier very romantic (the assumption I often see in these advice columns).

As for the porn flick, it sounds more like the old traditional porn directed to men, rather than the more recent porn that's targeted more to women.

And you guessed it, I have taken my wife dancing, and she loves it. But it has never in recent years put her in the mood.

What has been annoying to me personally (and this is not your fault in any way, but it's my own situation) is hearing all the well-meant advice such as you are giving, with the assumption being that surely, any woman will want sex if only the man does the right thing. And this just isn't always true. One of the most frequent problems in sex therapy is low female desire (quoting real stats here, not my distorted impression) and the cause is not always that their husband is a clod.

The most recent version of this kind of "advice" is the frequently-reported-on book trilogy, "Fifty Shades of Grey". Supposedly it's spiced up millions of marriages. I've suggested the book to my wife, and from what she's heard of it, she's clearly indicated she has ZERO interested in ever reading it.

Who gave me sex "freely"? My wife, when we first met. We had a good time together doing other things, and a request for sex was rarely turned down.

And no, I'm not watching too many TV shows. Over the years, I've had a number of real young women suggest a lot of things were on the table once we were on friendly terms. And as a woman perhaps that surprises you because I suspect women generally don't tell their female friends that they indicated they were available and didn't get anywhere with it. It sure surprised me the first few times it happened. But I'll agree that in the end it wouldn't have been "free". So fear of consequences has kept me out of trouble.

I like your example about the older women. I want to believe they're mostly like that

[DaddyLongShanks]

As a means to lighten up the humor in this room. And I know how SSM feels. I haven't performed vaginal penetration in 20 months, the longest time since I was 17 years old.

I do have a new relationship and she has been celebate waiting for things to be right.

To lighten things up in here:

"You SSM folks have the same complaint, year after year. It's always the same thing! Don't you have something else to fuss about".

I'm sure that's how the LD or "Needs Met Elsewhere" spouse views this situation.

I wish you the best.

[ssmguy]

I'm having a hard time with these SSM low drive or low needs people that really think that they should not meet in the middle somewhere.

When the "discrepancy" is such that the LD person wants no sex, what does it mean to "meet in the middle"? Half of what the HD person claims he/she wants? In which case I think the HD person would tend to claim to want twice what they'd be happy with. And besides, it's kind of depressing that you've committed to having sex only with a person who never enjoys it. It's not easy.

And to realize that the low SEX is just one symptom of a bad marriage.

I would disagree with the potentially implied statement that low sex only results from a bad marriage. LD can be the initial cause, and sometimes a couple can manage to hold everything else together pretty well even while the sexual discrepancy is not resolved.

[DaddyLongShanks]

I'm having a hard time with these SSM low drive or low needs people that really think that they should not meet in the middle somewhere.

When the "discrepancy" is such that the LD person wants no sex, what does it mean to "meet in the middle"? Half of what the HD person claims he/she wants? In which case I think the HD person would tend to claim to want twice what they'd be happy with. And besides, it's kind of depressing that you've committed to having sex only with a person who never enjoys it. It's not easy.

And to realize that the low SEX is just one symptom of a bad marriage.

I would disagree with the potentially implied statement that low sex only results from a bad marriage. LD can be the initial cause, and sometimes a couple can manage to hold everything else together pretty well even while the sexual discrepancy is not resolved.

I hear you. It could have been a "good" marriage and for one reason another the LD was brought on, but the rest of the factors remained the same. There wasn't anything done to cause the LD, but hormonal or psychological change is what brought it on. Nothing the HD wife or husband changed, is not doing, but instead it's the response of the LD partners mind and body.

I have a question. Would it be possible for you to please your mate in a particular way, knowing you will not recieve pleasure in the act? However to recieve fulfillment, ensuring your partners needs are met?

I also had a observation of LD in which "if you don't use it you lose it". So sometimes to gain it back, you have to do the act. Don't do it for yourself, don't do it until you feel a large ball of lust, but do it to pleasure the other person. As long as you are not degrading yourself, or mentally falling deeper in a LD pit then what is the problem?

[25yearsmlc]

25yearsmlc, wow, you're not giving me much credit. Seems you take some hilarously negative interpretations on some of my comments. I guess my humor is not showing in my writing.

That's true apparently. I didn't think you were being sarcastic or witty. Sorry.

Yes, I come here to get a different perspective, or more normal one.

I didn't mean that literally EVERYTHING is seen as playful. I'm not that stupid.
-- I would have loved her giving me unexpected crotch grabs all through our marriage. But to her, apparently, it was more of a jokey kind of humorous thing. Some with some other fantasies and role-play. It surprised me that she thought it was fun only once, apparently just as novelty. Now her attitude is more like, well, we did that when we were young and we don't have time for that now. And my reaction is, huh?
==
What has been annoying to me personally (and this is not your fault in any way, but it's my own situation) is hearing all the well-meant advice such as you are giving, with the assumption being that surely, any woman will want sex if only the man does the right thing. And this just isn't always true. One of the most frequent problems in sex therapy is low female desire (quoting real stats here, not my distorted impression) and the cause is not always that their husband is a clod.

I get that. My question is why come here? There are only 2 options for you. 1) Work on making the marriage happier for you (and hopefully her)

OR 2) NOT

and if not, then the natural follow up is "WHAT THEN?"

But whenever you are asked THAT question -

your reply is something along the lines of how your marriage is "very good except for this one area" and or "sex is not the most important thing..."

and I get that too!

But here you are, on DB's site again, talking about how hideously low your w's sex drive is.

And I don't know what to tell you - b/c this is a solution based site. We want solutions, not commiseration, at least not beyond a certain point.

What can we SAY to solve your problem when you say it is NOT solvable?


Who gave me sex "freely"? My wife, when we first met.

when you FIRST MET or first married? IF it's in marriage, that's not quite the same. Truly, No offense intended.


We had a good time together doing other things, and a request for sex was rarely turned down.

And no, I'm not watching too many TV shows. Over the years, I've had a number of real young women suggest a lot of things were on the table once we were on friendly terms. And as a woman perhaps that surprises you because I suspect women generally don't tell their female friends that they indicated they were available and didn't get anywhere with it. It sure surprised me the first few times it happened. But I'll agree that in the end it wouldn't have been "free". So fear of consequences has kept me out of trouble.

I like your example about the older women. I want to believe they're mostly like that

Well I hope most older women are. The ones I know tend to be. But the question remains about you.

Assuming you are right in all your predictions about your wife's choices

then Daddy has a point. She is NOT willing to put your needs ahead of,
or even with, yours. No one here thinks that's okay.

What will you do about that?