I posted in newcomers but was advised to post here if I believe H is going through a midlife crisis.
I threw H(45) out two months ago when I(45) discovered he's seeing a coworker, two days after he BD. I've been DBing and LRT for the past six weeks. We've been married 2.5 years, together 5 and no kids. He divorced his first wife 20 years ago and has ond D(20) from that marriage.
As I continue to LRT I want to also understand if this is a midlife crisis or if H is simply broken. I won't address the question of taking him back unless and until it is presented to me. I also have learned some things about myself that I am trying to change - processing things instead of reacting immediately, for example.
One day out of the blue H asked if I had given any thought to our relationship, how we were doing. I said we have some issues, like any marriage, but we're fine and where is this coming from. He said he'd not been happy for a few months. I asked if there was another woman, he said no.
The reasons he gave for leaving include: I didn't make him feel like a man; I didn't make him feel like my protector; my sister told him he has a nice butt in a new pair of jeans and I didnt' say anything; I'm not religious enough; my personality is too strong; I'll never change; he stopped growing as a person; we stopped growing as a couple. Everything along those lines. I initially implored him to work on our marriage and said I'd do anything to fix it; he said "you'll never change." I initially internalized everything he said and blamed myself, but now I know better. He should have given me a chance.
Since the physical separation he has had his mother pay off the $23000 SUV loan, left our huge country bungalow to stay with a friend, his overbearing wife, two kids, dog and cat. He is committed to selling our boat and hitting us with the $14000 debt that will remain, since it's a new boat. He is signing the house over to me and found a one bedroom apartment on a busy road in the city. We've only lived here 1.5 years so there's no equity for refinancing and it needs work so we'd take a huge hit financially.
I never contact him, but the few times he's called here he is a mess. However, when he showed up on Thursday he was very cavalier, like we're old buddies who haven't seen each other in a while, seeming to forget what he's done to me. This country life, the pool, the boat, was our dream...or so I thought. He was doing a lot of work around the house over the summer, and maybe it got the best of him.
A critical piece is the death of his father about three weeks after we married. He was diagnosed with a brain tumor about six weeks before. It hit my husband hard, although as usual he pushed the emotion down and tried to ignore it. He has never been a big communicator and would never, ever discuss his past relationships with me. "It's in the past so it doesn't matter" he'd say. His mother also has a very strong personality and from what I have learned recently pretty much ruled the roost. I also discovered pretty significant use of online porn throughout our entire relationship, which, along with his unwillingness to talk about the past, explains the lack of intimacy.
So that's the short version. Does this sound like MLC, or is he just broken?
We're supposed to meet to discuss furniture, etc, on Tuesday. I don't know why we can't do it by email, as I've suggested, but ok. I bought the furniture before we married so it isn't community property and he has no right to it. In the spirit of DBing, how should I handle that?
Thoughts and advice ASAP greatly appreciated.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
H emailed me this morning to confirm for tomorrow but I haven't gotten back to him as I don't know how to handle it.
Should I just tell him to send me a list of what he wants? Should I meet him fact to face? Should I just send him an email telling him what I'm willing to let him have?
Any advice on how to go into this without fighting or being a doormat would be appreciated.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
I initially implored him to work on our marriage and said I'd do anything to fix it; he said "you'll never change." I initially internalized everything he said and blamed myself, but now I know better.
Do YOU see a need to change in yourself?
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He should have given me a chance.
The funny thing in looking back is many people (LBSes) can actually see where their spouses...did give them chances, did ask for changes, did try. But that's in retrospect. Those chances and attepts are usually very passive however.
The other part of that? Yes he should have, although willing to bet in his mind he did. But...would you have listened?
I didn't. It took going through all of this MLC and LBS craptastic learning to figure out how to really communicate and listen.
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We're supposed to meet to discuss furniture, etc, on Tuesday. I don't know why we can't do it by email, as I've suggested, but ok.
Well, you agreed to the meeting, so...it should be the meeting. Believe it or not, the MLC doesn't trust the LBSer, and if things always had to be done your way then maybe this is one of those examples of you actually changing.
It is hard for us to break out of patterns. But vital to DBing.
If you don't want to fight, then don't allow yourself to get pulled into one, and certainly don't go there ready to fight.
As for the doormat? That's a personal matter, people all over these boards will tell you that you are or aren't a doormat. There is only one person who's opinion matters in that area and: she looks back at you from the mirror.
I let my wife get away with alot in the begining of her MLC, simply because I had no control of her actions, and any attmept to try and force my choices and wants on her would make her run even further away...did that make me a doormat?
Actually the question is pointless because I don't care (no offense) of your opinion of the matter. : ) At times I was and at times I wasn't. It was a fine line and sometimes broad beam, but always a balancing act, and in the end I got what I wanted even if I thought I was a doormat at points or too hard at others.
This MLC? Isn't about changing him...its about changing you. Shedding the things you don't like in yourself, because chances are those are the things other people don't like either.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Do I need to change some things? Absolutely. I need to be less reactive. I need to not be more patient. Some would say I need to be less independent, less opinionated. I guess this is the "strong personality" he said he can't handle. The same one he married.
As for chances, I haven't found the time or the way he gave me one, apart from maybe him saying from time to time "it doesn't have to be done your way all the time." But this was a skewed perception because there were plenty of things he did that I had no opinion on. Would I have listened? Absolutely, if the conversation were frank. But I'm not a mind reader and our communication challenges were always a two way street. He had a fitting excuse every time I tried to discuss certain things with him. He also never, ever talked about his past. "It's the past" he'd say "it doesn't matter."
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Well, you agreed to the meeting, so...it should be the meeting.
Actually about a month ago we agreed to start the separation discussion via email. He just didn't bother to send any info and here we are. He wants the separation yet I'm supposed to take all the action. It's kind of funny....I can agree to do it his way and meet him face to face but it will end up being my way because he'll expect me to do all the proposing, all the writing, all the talking about the terms of separation. I want him to take the lead on this but he just isn't. Just like when we were married.... Me: "Where do you want to go for dinner, honey?" Him: "I don't know where do you want to go?" Same conversation for everything.
And you're right. Fighting or not is a choice, and I'm the only one who has to be satisfied with my choices. I'm certainly not trying to force my choices on him, but I have a problem with ignoring and sacrificing my own needs and financial security so I can be sensitive to and supportive of his. He seems to be oblivious to my financial circumstances yet he expects me to be accommodating of his. I'm expected to furnish his apartment the same way his friends put him up rent free and his mother paid off his suv and i'm taking a huge financial hit because he insists on selling the boat, moreso through a broker. And yes, as you can tell I'm angry about it. He's taken no responsibility whatsoever for his situation and I don't want to reinforce that.
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Shedding the things you don't like in yourself, because chances are those are the things other people don't like either.
I'd be hard pressed to find folks that know me who agree with his assessment of me right now or his opinion on my ability to change, and fortunatly I don't have a lot of self contempt. I'm learning to be more patient, I'm learning to be less reactive, and I know the importance now of paying closer attention. I will always have opinions and I'm glad I care enough to, and I'll always be independent. But I also know there are good things about me that cannot be ignored - my honest, my generosity, my commitment and dedication, my love for the people closest to me.
As for tomorrow, I guess I'll fly by the seat of my pants. If we need to meet, we'll meet. I'll bite my tongue but stand my ground. I'll do my best to choke back the fresh wounds that come from his dropping a grenade into our marriage and then coming back to drop two more into my home and my bank account.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
I am defensive for sure. Still very hurt and trying to protect myself, and I do know you're not attacking. I've seen the frankness used here and appreciate honesty.
I've stopped justifying things with him as I know it's talking to a brick wall. I've listened when given the opportunity. It's hard for me when the talk is about deconstructing the home we built together.
I did get an email back about whether we need to meet tomorrow or can start with email. He told me he wants "everything I came with and any kitchen item my mother has given us" and will send a more complete list tomorrow. I was more concerned about large items and this seems petty. She's given us little trinket type things...I doubt he has any idea what she gave us actually because he never paid that much attention.
It's like he was just visiting. And it seems he wants to hurt me. I love to cook, and I only cook for people I love. It feels like he wants to remove his mother from this house too.
I haven't responded and will wait to see what he has to say tomorrow. I just wish I understood his behaviour.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
IF this is MLC, and that is for you to determine. About 50% of mental health professionals do not ascribe to it, while the other about 50% do. Someone who hasn't seen it or experienced it likely won't believe it, and just chalk it up to horrendous behaviour, while those who have seen it or experienced it do believe in it.
To sum it up, temporary insanity, but not like murder cases. MLC = absolute confusion and illogical behaviour. (In my book)
I actually suggested you check out the resources at the top of this part of the boards, and see if anything clicks. It will kill some time for you and give you some decent insight.
the problem with:
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I just wish I understood his behaviour.
Is that a logical person will not understand an illogical person...not in any detail, at best a logical person can just understand that a person is illogical.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Being strong and independent are generally very attractive features.
Being hypercritical, bullying and emasculating are not. H seems to perceive you this way. Rather than explaining away his perceptions, try to focus on what is true about them. If they were outlandish, you wouldn't be spending so much time and effort explaining them away.
As for porn, all men use porn, and all men with computer access and internet use online porn. Really. Simple use of porn is not the reason for your lack of intimacy, which you described in more detail on your other thread.
Listen to what H is telling you:
He feels bossed around. He feels disrespected. He feels unappreciated. He feels emasculated. He feels you treat him as less than an equal. He feels you don't look at him as a man or a lover.
You aren't being a very good partner from his perspective. I can't imagine any man enjoying an R in which he felt like that. LISTEN to him. Get real with yourself about your role in the current dynamic. The last thing you need to be doing right now is diagnosing him. Focus on yourself. The criticism of H is toned down in this post compared to your other post. But it is here too. I believe there is a lot to what he is telling you. Pay attention.
Maybe H should be stronger and not subordinate his needs. Maybe so. But you don't control him, only yourself. Maybe you don't want a mate who isn't stronger. That's your choice.
But if you want THIS M to work, then you need to respect H, treat him like a man, stop being hypercritical, view him as desirable a sexual partner.
Look, I was married to a man who subordinated his needs. I wound up here. I DBed. I got divorced. I remarried a stronger man. Life is great. But it remains true that I did NOT treat my XH as a loving W. I did not respect him. I criticized him. I did not trust him as a provider. Etc... Maybe I had good reasons, maybe not. But, there is NO WAY that M was going to be good for either of us. Yes, he had his flaws. But by far the most important thing is to recognize your own and become a better person, no matter what happens.
Right now, you seem to be playing a "yes, but..." game with his concerns, brushing off looking at yourself in favor of psychoanalyzing what is behind H's choices. Right now, that doesn't matter. They are HIS choices. Respect them.
Also, get real with yourself about this M. It is fairly short. When have you ever been happy with it? When have you ever NOT wanted him to start acting like someone else?
As for the boat, if your name is on the title, then why are you selling it?
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
The stages of MLC are a template which can only be laid over an MLCer's experience retrospectively. It's impossible to see the pattern until it has finished being laid or the crisis is complete.(nickel Cyrena). So do not be too concerned where your MLC'er is in this process.(Although my general guess is that they are in REPLAY)
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he says and 50% of what he does.
I would not ask him anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. GAL. Detach the single most important thing to DO. Use the time that your H has given you as a gift to start to work on yourself.
It will kill some time for you and give you some decent insight. 